Sometimes you are too smart for me, but I am glad you are here.
Curious why you just looked at private colleges when the quoted statement didn’t distinguish between those of school. What happens when you compare private with small pell eligible population to a large public with high pell eligible population.
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I initially replied to your post, which talked about Vanderbilt – a highly selective private college. The quote said “closely ranked peers”. I chose highly selective privates that were previously ranked in top 25 as “closely ranked peers” for Vanderbilt, rather than public flagships.
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I’ve never seen a group of people more obsessed with college rankings than College Confidential parents. Seriously, don’t y’all have jobs?
My school was once again ranked exactly one spot below our rival, as we have since time immemorial. My classmates and I spent about 30 seconds saying “ew” and scoffing at it. I texted my friend at Dartmouth with a screenshot saying “lol rip.” We’ve moved on. No one cares.
And to imply that a certain school “deserves” a certain rank is absurd. What does that even mean?
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And the dissing of schools that climbed the rankings is just distasteful.
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What happens when you look at the comparison I asked about — public with large pell eligible population v. private with small pell eligible population, formerly close in ranking?
Almost all well ranked public colleges increased in ranking, regardless of Pell % . So if you look at publics and privates that were previously similar in ranking, more often than not the public increased in ranking more than the private, regardless of whether the private was high or low % Pell.
A list of top 50 publics, how much they increased in ranking and % Pell is below. I don’t see much correlation. For example, U Washington and GeorgiaTech had the largest ranking increase, yet they had some of the lowest Pell % among public colleges, lower than many of the previously listed private colleges. GATech’s Pell % was among the lowest private colleges, as well as the lowest listed public colleges. UCI had the highest Pell % among all of the listed colleges, yet it had the 2nd lowest increase of all publics.
UWa: Increased 15 – 18% Pell
GATech: Increased 11 – 14% Pell
UCD: Increased 10 – 31% Pell
UNC: Increased 7 – 20% Pell
UCSD: Increased 6 – 34% Pell
UIUC: Increased 6 – 25% Pell
UTA: Increased 6 – 25% Pell
UCLA: Increased 5 – 28% Pell
UCB: Increased 5 – 28% Pell
UM: Increased 4 – 18% Pell
UWM: Increased 3 – 16% Pell
UVA: Increased 1 – 15% Pell
UF: Increased 1 – 22% Pell
UCI: Increased 1 – 38% Pell
UCSB: Decreased 3 – 28% Pell
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If I am not mistaken last year ranking for GaTech was very crappy by USNWR. I think it was ranked 44th? I do not track its ranking closely but it was always in the 30s in the past. So last year’s ranking was an anomaly. So technically it did not climb this year, it just came back to normal. Among undergraduate engineering schools it was always 4th/5th. It is 3rd this year same as Berkeley and ahead of CalTech (I think it was behind CalTech for very long time). Here is some data that I found that can be interesting
Another thought. Since in GA there are Hope and Zell scholarships for students with good HS GPAs, and the majority of accepted students are GA residents (due to mandate) and top students, I do not believe many students actually use Pell at GaTech. I am not sure if the above scholarships can be stacked with Pell or not.
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My daughter went to UNC and would have had the same fabulous experience/outcome regardless of whether the school went up or down.
My other daughter attended a small, regional state school that most have never heard of, ranked #60. She ended up at an Ivy for grad school in a program that accepted 8. Her advisor commented that she entered this program very well prepared.
These rankings don’t matter and I never looked at them when my kids applied. What matters is the student and what works for them and their family.
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So then what do you see as the main driver of state school ratings increases? Top 3 from the data please?!
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And yet I suspect it’s “the exact same school” over that span of time.
At least when we rank athletic teams its based on recent performance W-L. The wheels of academia move exceptionally slowly. Any change in policy that might impact % graduation rates (or post 5-10 year income levels!) takes at least 5-10 years to play through.
Due to the aged nature of some of the data elements they use it will be curious to see what happens in a few years as that data will need to be taken during the “Covid years”. Then again, they’ll probably reformulate by then.
Please note that Oberlin tied for 51st in its category, which further supports your point, of course.
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The fact that they dropped class size as an input (formerly 8%, now 0). Small(er) class sizes typically benefit private schools.
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Does it also benefit the students?
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Yes, if that is what students are looking for. One of the appeals of smaller schools is undoubtedly the smaller class sizes. Of course, every student is different in terms of what they find most important in a college - for some that might be small classes, for others that might be location or athletics or any other of a myriad number of things.
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When it comes to the quality of education, class size is very important, just as the rigor of the academic instruction and expectations matter.
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I find rankings about as useful as an inflatable dart board.
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Totally agree. It is a very difficuly to ask quesions and get answers in a class of 100 -400. Most likely professor will tell you to go to office hours. Then you may find yourself sitting in the class without being able to follow critical info…What is the point to go to class if you can’t get feedback immediately? There are sometimes video recordings or power points, or even textbooks if student wants selfstudy…
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I agree with thorsmom who says it depends what the student is looking for/what they prefer. Some students prefer larger, more impersonal classes where they don’t have to necessarily participate in discussions, or even attend class…and they can get a high quality education that way.
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Keep thinking about the poster who feels it is humorous that so many people here care so much about rankings.
The biggest issue for me is when “average knowledge” families get mislead that these rankings have anything to do with admissions difficulty. They often do not. That makes applying and advising much harder. I feel badly for the family who believes Tulane, U Miami, Wake, and NU are safe schools and get 4 hard rejections and then feel they must have done something awful in their application. Hopefully their reach school was one of the higher ranked state schools and it all works out for them.
As US News gets further from reality, they should have a mandatory and clear disclaimer.
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