<p>Here's the situation. Although we think of ourselves as middle class, when I did a Fafsa online it came back with a big LOL. So, there will be no need based financial aid in this story.</p>
<p>My son is a junior and looks like a good candidate for HYPS. (I don't want to get into specifics here and turn this into a chance me thread.) Of those Stanford is the #1 choice right now. From what we've heard, Stanford gives no merit based financial aid. So here's what I envision happening.</p>
<p>My son gets into Stanford (or someplace very similar), along with a bill for $50,000 a year. He also gets into his safe school - let's say Tulane - and they offer a full ride. So, at this point, is there any play at all? Let's say we contact Stanford to negotiate. Do they absolutely refuse to talk? Will we be faced with this big gap: great school for $50K or almost-as-great school for free? And no shades of gray?</p>
<p>If it plays out like this what could we expect?</p>
<p>And, I'm not looking to limit this to Stanford. I'm trying to get generic information at this stage. Remember, my son is a junior and has only seen two colleges. But, if the consensus is that Stanford won't negotiate, are there other top 50 colleges that will?</p>
<p>BTW, I'll throw in one fact about my son's record. He's pretty much guaranteed NMF status, did great on PSAT. Don't know if that changes anything.</p>
<p>Just because FAFSA is coming back with a LOL, it doesnt mean the top private colleges will. Everything changes from year to year, but many have a higher cutoff on aid.</p>
<p>My understanding is that the schools that don't have merit aid really don't have merit aid. They might talk to you about the need calculation, but if you are really beyond the need limits, you don't have much leeway.</p>
<p>Stanford (or someplace similar) will not negotiate if they are need-only schools, but they will review their calculations and can make professional adjustments for individual circumstances, such as excess medical bills. </p>
<p>A 'someplace similar' that offers merit aid is Duke, but so does WashU, Rice, Chicago, and several others. However, please understand that NMF's at those schools are dime a dozen. Some schools like USC love NMSF's, however, and provide automatic discounts to those kids.</p>
<p>birdrock--
There are some schools in the top 50 that do offer merit aid. Wash U, Duke, Vanderbilt, and Rice are a few. Of course, the competition for merit aid at these schools is pretty fierce.<br>
Since we are also a full-ticket family (per FAFSA) we are looking long and hard at schools that offer merit aid. If you search the forums you'll find lots of posts on schools that offer merit aid.<br>
From what I've heard and read, there is no negotiating with the schools that don't offer merit aid. Maybe they'll be a little more generous with the financial aid, but that's about as much as you can expect.</p>
<p>Don't forget that some top schools, like Princeton and Harvard, give really good financial aid. Harvard, in fact, gives aid even in cases where household income is $180,000 per year.</p>
<p>I recently came across a really helpful chart that showed what each college would actually cost, grouped by family income. I can't remember where I saw it! Does anyone know? I'm thinking it was in the New York Times educational supplement a few weeks ago, but I can't find it online. Harvard came in as the cheapest!</p>
<p>Is there any list anywhere of almost top schools that are generous with merit aid, along with specifics? For instance it's been mentioned a in a few places that USC will give a NMF 50% off tuition. That's good to know. Any other specific bits of info out there?</p>
<p>Tulane is giving a lot of aid to top students right now. It's an excellent school. The campus is gorgeous. Lots of security on campus itself. Spent all night at the library there last night researching term paper with son.</p>
<p>There are many threads here that list schools with good merit aid. Bear in mind that the competition is fierce for that money. Curmudgeon's experiences with his D who ended up with great package will give you some idea of what to expect. His D was accepted to Yale, which tells you where she was in terms of profile, and yet, it was not as though the money was flowing like a river towards her. The name schools that offer big scholarships tend to have very tough competiton for those awards.</p>
<p>My oldest son was accepted to very selective schools but did not get any merit money from anything but his safety. And he was also a recruited athlete. My second son who was a very strong performing arts kid got many scholarship offers but none over $5k and most were $1000. Hardly a drop in the bucket when you are talking about $50K+ schools. Our third son had very high SATs and looked for school where he would be competitive. Though he did get some full rides (plus), the more selective schools did not offer anything. Georgia Tech, for instance, accepted him, but did not offer a dime. The same with Holy Cross. He got some half tuition type scholarships from Fordham, Fairfield, state schools. Still, for private schools, you are talking a total cost of over $30k even with $20K or so off the sticker price. Scary. He chose a school that gave him some merit money, but he is also borrowing unsubsidized Stafford money, and is working as well. We are also paying a bit more than we are comfortable and borrowing. </p>
<p>In addition to some already mentioned, GA Tech, Emory, Pitt, UNC, Johns Hopkins, UChicago, Miami, Wake Forest, Rice, Lafayette have some big awards. The ivies and Stanford, Williams, Wesleyan, Amherst, Pomona do not give merit scholarships, but they are more generous than FAFSA in coming up with their institutional EFC in many cases.</p>
<p>Most of the costs are guesstimates by the Project based on the written policies of the schools. A few schools (the ones with the *) calculated real numbers based on the income and the assumed assets listed. Last year my son had FA packages from a few of these schools and we found that the numbers shown in the report were quite accurate for our circumstances.</p>
<p>HYPS offer only need based aid. If you don't qualify for need based aid, it doesn't matter what Tulane or any other school offers you in scholarship money (which is merit aid). HYPS will not match the offer. In addition, the schools that will discuss differing need based awards typically only do so when compared to peer schools. In other words, Princeton might look at an award from Harvard (this is an example..I'm not saying this happens), but they would probably not look at an award from Tulane as it's a peer school (a school very much like Princeton).</p>
<p>Some of these schools, Stanford and Harvard for example, have very generous need based awards. Harvard, for example has students pay 10% of their family income up to a certain amount (not sure what it is, but I think it's $180,000) for tuition. I don't know if this includes housing costs or not. Stanford has a similarly generous need based policy.</p>
<p>The policy at Tulane is NOT as generous...in other words, you would likely get less need based money at Tulane than at Stanford. </p>
<p>But again..most important...schools awarding need based aid will NOT give you need based aid based on MERIT awards from other schools.</p>
<p>Hi Bird Rock! You mention that you already know about USC's 1/2 tuition scholarship to accepted NMFs - I wanted to note that is the minimum an accepted NMF will get. USC has many other merit awards, including the full tuition Trustee Scholarship (over 100 per year), that are offered to top applicants (and the top applicants often also just happen to be the NMFs!).</p>
<p>The bottom line as I see it, for families with high income and assets nowhere near close enough for need based aid, is that the picture is exactly what the OP describes in the first post. Your choice will probably be a $50K plus bill or generous aid at a school ranked far, far lower than the top schools your top student got into.</p>
<p>USC seems to be the highest ranked school that's somewhat generous with merit aid. But a half tuition scholarship still leaves you with a $30K plus bill. After that, to get the merit money at Duke, Chicago, Rice--you're looking at a kid HYPS would be fighting for.</p>
<p>The U of Rochester is a very good school with broad academic strengths that gives merit aid. Some of their scholarships are at least $30K per year, many are smaller but still substantial. Sounds like it would be a reasonable safety for your S.</p>
<p>My S, who had a very, very low EFC was awarded a $10K merit scholarship there, plus a smaller need-based award. Although we appreciated the gesture, in terms of meeting his need the combined package was laughable. It was his safety. Luckily he had other options. (He refused to consider USC or any other school that specifically offered large awards based on his NMF status.)</p>
<p>"Your choice will probably be a $50K plus bill or generous aid at a school ranked far, far lower than the top schools your top student got into."</p>
<p>This statement seems to be based on the assumption that there is some huge void between HYPS and ... any other school. I have to disagree. A candidate for HYPS is a candidate for merit aid at some excellent schools. No guarantees of getting the aid, of course ... but the opportunities for a top student to get at least some merit aid at top schools are certainly there. $50k minus 10-15k is still a lot less than 50k ... so it's NOT all or nothing, HYPS or "a school ranked far, far lower."</p>
<p>Thanks once again for the input. This really is extremely helpful and saves us a lot of time. </p>
<p>Fortunately for us Tulane and USC would be on the safe school list right now without any consideration of finances, so it's nice to know that they both are generous with merit aid.</p>
<p>It sounds like there is no easy answer. No single website I could go to and get an immediate printout of what to expect from every college. And of course there's no guarantee that policies for 2010 grads will be the same as the policies for 2009 grads. So we'll keep checking in.</p>
<p>I made the choice too stark. What I wanted to convey is that full rides at the more selective schools are difficult to get. I know a lot of kids who got into ivies, but few who got full rides at schools like Vanderbilt, Duke, UCh, etc. Many kids I know who were accepted to such schools did not get any merit aid at all even if they were HPY acceptees as well. The competition for those scholarships is very fierce. </p>
<p>I don't think there is a big void between HYP and any other school. In fact I think that the chances are better to get into them than to get one of those more coveted full ride type scholarships at the very selective schools.</p>
<p>Thanks for posting the chart, Machiavelli! It is similar to the one I had in mind, but the one I had seen gave a dollar figure for what you would pay at each of the colleges if your family income was at a certain level.</p>
<p>Part of the problem is that no matter how "holistic" the application process might be, the actual financial aspect is based on a number: after you fill out all those pages of FAFSA and CSS Profile, all the schools get is a number, sort of like a credit rating. Unless the school has their own supplemental form, they don't see the details of your financial situation. If you complain of your $0 FA and get to talk to a financial officer, they will probably ask you for more information to see what they can come up with and they will come up with something.</p>