<p>Yes, I'm convinced about UVA. </p>
<p>I should have been clearer about the GPA statistic. I is .14 lower, ie 3.80 vs. 3.66. Sorry about that.</p>
<p>Go, I think where you and I disagree is that I don't believe giving those with substandard academic preparation "a chance" at a top university is doing them a favor. I agree that some form of affirmative action is certainly necessary to make up the discrimination that minorities have historically faced, and I agree with your assessment of the cycle. However, allowing them to drop out of prestigious schools at alarming rates is hardly helping anybody. You say many of them went on to other universities and graduated there; don't you think it would have been healthier for them to build relationships and portfolios at that same institution for all four years, rather than dropping out of another school first, which only served to harm their self-esteem and reinforce their belief that they can't make it in a "white man's world"?</p>
<p>It's hard to analyze.</p>
<p>First, you have to accept that you are only dealing with a certain pool of entrants - those that were accepted with qualifications which were less than their non-minority peers. I don't know what percentage that is of total African American enrollees.</p>
<p>Of that pool, how many succeeded and how many failed. And of those who failed, how many of them were happy that they were given the opportunity and how many felt the were "harmed".</p>
<p>Would make an interesting study.</p>
<p>isn't "alarming" somewhere around 85% not graduating?</p>
<p>Not sure what you are referring to? The graduation rate at U of M for white is 87%, blacks 64%.</p>
<p>sorry-- need to proof read. I think 85% is GRADUATION rate for UVa African Americans, AA or otherwise--ignore "not" in previous post. I know nothing about UM-- glad go added that statistic.</p>
<p>make that 87%-- higher than that of even historically black colleges and universities</p>
<p>I think the incidents at UVa have been blown out of proportion by the media et alia. They are not an indicator of what type of environment is normally found at the University of Virginia. (First of all, we don't know if they were done by students or townies. As a gay minority alumnus, I have found not only acceptance but also support as both a student and an alum of the University.)</p>
<p>Here's an article from yesterday's edition of the Columbia Spectator. It highlights the 4th incident of racism on Columbia's campus in the past year. Columbia is an Ivy school in one of the most multicultural cities in the world - New York, New York. In fact, Columbia is only blocks away from Harlem and is in a metropolis with a high concentration of Jews, but yet it experiences racism and anti-semitic acts. Nonetheless, I wouldn't categorize Columbia University as a racist and anti-semitic school.</p>
<p>I will say that the biggest difference between UVa and Columbia is that the UVa administration, professors, students, and alumni have all stood united against all acts of intolerance. Even the UVa Alumni Association has placed a $5-10,000 reward for anyone w/ info re. hate crimes on Grounds. That plus UVA's emphasis in making sure that its students (minority or otherwise) feel welcome to attend, remain, and graduate from the University speak volumes on our commitment to diversity, equality, and acceptance.</p>
<p>in the past year there was also a major uproar at penn when campus security arrested and roughly treated a minority student because of racial profiling</p>
<p>I am not sure what point you are making by pointing out the incidents at Columbia and Penn? Is it that racially based incidents can and often do happen everywhere, so every school is on a level playing field in this regard? Or is it that minority students should take these incidents into account when choosing a school, which was my original point at the very begining of this thread?</p>
<p>I think the Columbia point dealt with the fact that since these racist incidents happened at such a racially diverse area, that to take into account that some racist incidents happened at some school anywhere when considering admissions is a null point (since it could, essentially, happen wherever someone goes). Rather, it's the reaction of the school that should be a factor, as a minority, in deciding whether the school is appropriate to attend.</p>
<p>I agree, to a point. Certainly, the action of the administration is paramount. But an assessment of the enviroment has to include more than that, and must include actions that have occurred on campus. You can't just throw that out of the equation.</p>
<p>"A documentation of racially targeting incidents at the University of Michigan The recent incident involving racially targeted intimidation of two Asian students at the University of Michigan has prompted an outcry from the Asian/Pacific Islander American (APIA) community. But this is not an isolated incident it is a larger issue related to the our own campus climate, where students feel they are allowed to engage in such acts in the first place. In the last few days, many members of the APIA community have come forth with testimonials of their own experiences of being targeted because of their race or ethnicity. In order to address the missing student services and academic resources we need to address the marginalizing climate for APIAS at UMich, we must document these experiences. Without this, administration will continue to view these acts as singular and isolated incidents."</p>
<p>from <a href="http://www.umich.edu/%7Euaao/testimonial.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.umich.edu/~uaao/testimonial.htm</a></p>
<p>people urinated on them and screamed racial slurs-- university response "tepid" <a href="http://criticalmoment.org/issue13/lee-lin%5B/url%5D">http://criticalmoment.org/issue13/lee-lin</a></p>
<p>More UM: According to the University, in the last three years incidents of racism and
racial harassment appeared to become increasingly frequent at the University.
For example, on January 27, 1987, unknown persons distributed a flier
declaring "open season" on blacks, which it referred to as "saucer lips, porch
monkeys, and jigaboos." On February 4, 1987, a student disc jockey at an on-
campus radio station allowed racist jokes to be broadcast. At a demonstration
protesting these incidents, a Ku Klux Klan uniform was displayed from a
dormitory window. <a href="http://www.mit.edu/activities/safe/legal/doe-v-u-of-michigan%5B/url%5D">http://www.mit.edu/activities/safe/legal/doe-v-u-of-michigan</a></p>
<p>This analysis of the environment seems important but these incidents are random, cannot be predicted, their continued presence is questionable. They are everywhere. Mostly it seems like a waste of time to me. These actions cannot be analyzed into distinguishing factors in any choice unless it is between an SEC school, a plastic bubble, an historically black college, or any other university. </p>
<p>Certainly this should no be a "tipping point" for those deciding AGAINST UVa as insinuated. Compared to its peers, it is a null factor at worst.</p>
<p>go5878,</p>
<p>Yes, you should pay attention to incidents that happen at college campuses, but I'm pretty sure racial incidents (blatant or subtle) happen at most (if not all) colleges. Universities are not bubbles free from the societal issues that face America & the world. That said, I again espouse that you visit the schools you are interested in to see what it's really like to attend that institution.</p>
<p>The reason why UVa has gotten all this attention is because the entire school has acted energetically and transparently against racism - meaning instead of trying to railroad or conceal anything that might damage UVA's image, the University community has instead stood up and made public the incidents as well as its outrage - from rallies & vigils, to President Casteen making a video decrying all intolerance, to student organizations and the Faculty Senate making public declarations of condemnation, to the Alumni Association offering money to bring the culprits to justice, to students painting Beta Bridge, wearing black t-shirts instead of orange ones at football games as well as wearing black ribbons around Grounds - ALL THIS - to say that racism has no place at UVa. </p>
<p>Most other schools would try to shoo away and minimize the issue when racism rears its ugly head. UVa instead took it head on. To be honest, I'm proud of my University for its public and vocal stance. To quote Jefferson:</p>
<p>"This institution will be based on the illimitable freedom of the human mind. For here we are not afraid to follow the truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it."</p>