<p>YESSS, Raid-in-Plaid96, you HAVE to go next year!!! 
And good luck with your FA :)</p>
<p>Josh-
I am a recent alum of SM. Actually '09 and I have to say your source doesnāt sound very accurate. There were some drug issues the year before my freshman year and they were expelled. It was a messy situation that caused some drama due to 5 students getting kicked out and 2 suspended, but it was resolved. Yes some students would go home and drink on the weekends and yes some students occasionally would smoke pot on the weekend but I would be surprised if you could find a single school that didnāt have those problems. St. Markās was a wonderful environment for me. I didnāt focus on the prestige of the colleges I wanted to apply to. I chose the schools that looked like they would fit me like St. Markās did. I loved all of my teachers at SM. They really support you and help you when you need it. My younger brother is at another BS and he doesnāt seem to have the support I ever had. My advisor was amazing and she always helped me whether it was for academic purposes or driving me to the Rt 128 train station so I could go home for the weekend to see my dying grandfather. The administration is fantastic. Mr. Warren has done a lot for SM he really has. The only member of the administration and the only thing about SM I didnāt like is on her way out and I just know that SM is going to become an even better place in the future. </p>
<p>I know youāre set on NMH, but please go to the revisit days, they really make all the difference. I went to four revisit days myself. My heart was set on St. Georgeās and when I went there I liked it and if I really strained hard I could see myself there. However once I went to the SM revisit day I knew it was the place for me. My parents made the deposit on the spot. I really think you should consider all options.</p>
<p>Best of luck for you! Also I do know some people at NMH who did like it.</p>
<p>How has the administration been fantastic even with the current dean of students there? I know she is leaving after this year, and trust me we are all thankful, but how can you say the administration was fantastic when she was there?</p>
<p>St. Markās has been doing great since Mr. Warren(new headmaster) came. These days their administration is getting really fantastic. They have a new college counseling director(she is doing a wonderful job this year and their college matriculation is excellent so far this year), they just hired a new assistant head from Concord, chapel head from St. Paul, Director of development from MIT, and they hired a new dean of students. They are building up an excellent administartion team. It will be a really fantastic team!
Great movement!</p>
<p>smski, thanks for clarifying! Josh had misunderstood my post. What you said about drugs is what I was trying to say. We have not been unhappy with the dean of students but if you think things are going to be even better than they are now, I am thrilled!</p>
<p>the administration was fantastic in the sense that John Warren has done a phenomenal job (as much as I disagreed with some of his decisions, I think heās really helped St. Markās), Anne Behnke the director of admissions also has done a great job in creating really great group of students, David Conti was one of my teachers and he was one of the best Iāve had at SM moreover he does a great job with organizing classes and whatnot, and there are 10 more members of the senior administration I didnāt mention who all do great jobs. I just was not a fan of the dean of students and many people werenāt because of the way she handled things. However as much as I dislike her, I had a friend who had some serious issues and she really helped her out, so she isnāt as terrible as I like to think she is. However, I do think the school is going to get so much better next year.</p>
<p>My friends and I talk about how we miss it quite a lot. We are planning to go to prize day weekend this year and are really excited to see everyone. I already visited in early January and was really happy with what I saw.</p>
<p>I guess it is a kind of silly to ask which ine is better. Everyone has a different need and different personality. I agree that st. markās is great in academics and it is much better than nmh while nmh might be a better place for different things. If a student who likes nmh goes to Andover/Exeter, the student wonāt be happy. In the same token, the student who likes nmh goes to st. markās, the student wonāt be successful. When you decide a school, you have to think about what you need from borading school and consider which environment you can do better to accomplish your objective from BS education. I personally think that academic is very important to go to a better college and a close relationship between teachers and students is also important just because the teacher can help in many ways to make kids a whole person. So I like small boarding school like st. markās, groton, midlesex, concord, and st. george.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the input. It sounds like the administration over at SMS is fantastic!</p>
<p>cdnhockeymom, sorry about the last post. I finally understood what you meant to say through smskiās post! :D</p>
<p>fslzcl, when you say SMS has better academics, what do you exactly mean? And, well, when you say you like small boarding schools, NMH only has 600 students, while most public schools can have up to 4,000.</p>
<p>We are not comparing BS to public school. We are comparing BS to BS. st. markās, middlesex, groton, and st. st georgeās have only about 330 students. you say nmh has 600 students. that is not a small size in BS. Of course Andover and Exeter has more than 1000. They are exceptional. Next size schools are like SPS, Choate, Hotchkiss, and Deerfield. Other than those schools, most of good BS are small. It is not easy to keep a good quality of program and reputation with a large size of students body. I I know nmh had more than 600 before. 600 is not a small size. In general, academic means their college matriculations, sat average, ssat average including class rigor.</p>
<p>fslzclā¦you know not of which you speak. NMH has excellent academics and an NMH student would not necessarily be unhappy or have difficulty succeeding at any of the other schools mentioned. There are those who would, just as there are those at some of the so-called ātier 1ā schools who would struggle at NMH. The courses are not easier. There is just as much breadth and depth (more in some cases). The faculty is as well educated. AND, they are just as respected by colleges (a look at Naviance makes that quite easy to see). They do not attract the great number of applicants that schools like Exeter and Andover do simply because they lack the ābrand recognitionā, thus they are not able to be as selective and boast the low, low admission numbers. I think we can exclude St. Marks from the conversation as their admission rate (and SAT scores) are closer to NMH than they are to the ābig gunsā. I have two sons who have attended NMH (one is still there). Both were solid applicants and would have been competitive at the HADES schools. My older son was actually wait-listed for FA at Exeter. However, he only applied because we thought he should apply to another school besides NMH, which was his hands-down favorite. My younger son was an even stronger applicant than his older brother and a two-sport Varsity recruit as a freshman. His ticket to any school was pretty much written, but he wouldnāt even look at any other schools. We are a loyal NMH family and proud of it. It is a world class institution offering top notch academics, arts, and athletics. It has a wonderful feel and environment without the cut-throat competitiveness of some schools.</p>
<p>When we advocate a school, we should respect other schools insetad of giving a bad mouth about other schools. Everything is about education in this forum. Every sentece you make reflects everything about yours. I guess everybody talks about the schools very subjectively most of time. Unless it is based on verifiable facts, we shoudl be careful. I like to calrify keylymeās comments: SMS acceptance rate has been much lower in the past. From 2007 to 2009(I do not know before the period since I did not follow the data before then), SMS acaceptance rate was 29% while nmh acceptance rate was about 60% and NMH used accept applications any time throughout a year while SMS application deadline is January). Even last year, SMS was 40%(this is very unsual in SMS, their admission rate has been always from upper 20 to lower 30%) while nmh was 46%. SMS ssat average was 82% while nmh ssat average was 67%. SAT average of SMS was 1970 while NMH average was 1827. That is a big difference. This year, I am hearing the students quality of the newly admitted SMS students is the highest in the history from SMS admission office.<br>
These are all published facts in boarding school review. If you look at the past data, the gap betwen thw two is even larger. I posted the data of many boarding school in this thread. NMH, neverthless, will be a good place for some kids depending on what they need and what they like. I donāt know much about NMH and I cannot say about that. I like to say that SMS academic is ourstanding and I truly believe that it is second to none. My D applied to 11 schools two years ago, and she was waitlisted in Groton, Choate, Hotchkiss, and accepted by St. Mark;s, Taft, and Middlesex. We chose SMS over Taft and Middlesex. One of her frieds whose record was not as good as my Dās was accepted by Andover and St. Paulās. The admission of BS depends on not only academic record but also all kinds of other factors.
My D had perfect transcripts, 97% SSAT and a wide range good records of ECs, and we still donāt know why she was not accepted by those schools. Quite frankly, we were disappointed at that time. But we are so happy at SMS these days and we truly believe that we are fortunate that our D attend SMS because it is a wonderful school and environment and she is doing very well and she is so happy with the school. Furthermore, SMS is becoming an even better school everyday with the new leadership and the teachers. It used to be a school like Andover/Exeter decades ago. Everybody beleives that SMS is coming back to its former glorious times.</p>
<p>^^erkyā¦I agree with not badmouthing other schools and I did not intend to do so. I believe all of the schools we have been discussing are excellent academically. I do not agree that it is safe to say that St. Marks is better than NMH academically just because of the SSAT and SAT discrepancies. The HADES schools all show SSAT averages in the high 80ās(a few of the schools) and low 90ās (most of them), and SATās in the 2000ās. Neither NMH nor St. Marks can post those numbers. Also, the other schools all show acceptance rates below 20. You note that St. Marksās rate āhas been lowerā; I am happy to report that NMHās rate continues itās downward trend. </p>
<p>My previous response was to fslzcl who made some pretty irresponsible and unsubstantiated remarks regarding the quality of NMHās academics (insinuating a lack thereof).</p>
<p>I think the reasons for NMHās lower numbers are twofold:</p>
<p>First: It does lack the ābrand recognitionā of some of the older preps that have been around for 200 years and have huge endowments thanks to very wealthy attendees (NMH is 100 years younger and was started as a school for students who would not have been allowed into the Andovers and Exeters because of their ālowā social status. Hence, no old money).</p>
<p>Second: NMH is the only one of all the āmajorā preps which offers ESL courses. They also have the highest percentage of international students. Perhaps this affects test scores??</p>
<p>Once you get beyond the ānumbersā though, you should note that NMH has some of the highest numbers for faculty with advanced degrees and # of AP Courses offered which I think reflects well on the academic quality. I believe that a strong student will be as well served academically at NMH as he or she would at any of the HADES or SMS as I believe the course rigor is comparable. Naviance also backs this up. (Lower avarage gpaās getting into some pretty top schools).</p>
<p>keylime, let me rephrase what I said. I tried to reduce my tone. Let me put them in a straight way.</p>
<p>1) The HADES schools all show SSAT averages in the high 80ās(a few of the schools) and low 90ās (most of them), and SATās in the 2000ās. Neither NMH nor St. ā> Come on! Then other than HADES, all the schools are same?</p>
<p>Even if st. marks ssat is not high low 80ās(actually 82% last year), there is a significant difference between st. markās(82%) and nmh(67%). For SAT, there is a signuficant difference between st. markās(1970) and nmh(1827) as well. This year, st. markās sat average is higher than 2000.
There is a significant margin in SAT and SSAT scores between SMS and nmh. That is what I tried to point out.</p>
<p>Teacherās advanced degree? ā> About 70% of SMS teachers have advanced degree. But that does not decide the teacherās quality. Do you think Ph.D can teach high school kids better than teachers who have BS or MS???
st. markās teacher salry is very high. They keep looking for high quality of teachers by offering a good salary and benefits. Last year while other BS layed off faculties and froze the salary, SMS did not lay off any and they increased faculty salary to keep the good teachers.</p>
<p>AP course: st. markās offer more than 24 Ap courses, which is higher than HADES. But the number of AP courses cannot be a good measure for academic quality.</p>
<p>All the academic program quality is not easy to evaluate and compare. However, the only qualtitative measures are SAT and SSAT, whcih shows a significant difference between SMS and nmh. SMS academic strength keeps improving continuously by showing their sat average is becoming close to HADES. This yearās SSAT average will be a lot higher than last year, and it will be high 80ās as well. There is no quation about SMSās academic excellence! As far as aacdemic strength goes, it is second to none!</p>
<p>Keylyme, Deerfield also offers ESL. So nmh is not the only one. </p>
<p>I do think that NMH has A LOT of intāl students, especially Chinese. Itās not even ārecommendedā on the Chinese forum! Iād have considered nmh an āaverageā BS if I hadnāt been on CC. Theyāve admitted too many Chinese kids with average(actually below average) test scores.
It does affect their numbers.</p>
<p>^^I didnāt realize there were that may Chinese kids; I think itās mostly Korean. Butā¦it does affect the numbers because of the whole ESL thing. </p>
<p>erkyā¦When I say āacademicsā, I am not referring to just SAT and SSAT scores, because those donāt necessarily reflect the rigor of the school, the depth and breadth of the curriculum, or the quality of the instruction. They do reflect on the particular student body, which in NMHās case has a large percentage of students for whom english is not their primary language, which certainly skews the numbers. Also, I donāt believe there really is that big of a difference between a 67% and an 82% on the SSAT as they are both reflective of students in the top 10% or so of the national pool who are quite capable of ārigorousā academics. </p>
<p>I believe you when you say St. Marks is excellent academically; I believe all of the schools we are speaking of, including NMH, are fairly equitable when it comes to the quality fo the program offered. I say this a parent of two students. I live locally to many of the schools and both of my students have friends who have attended or are attending Exeter, Andover, St. Paulās, St. Marks, and Groton. These are my sonsā peers, students with whom they attended elementary and middle school, students who received similar grades and were the same type of āachieversā. My children are still in touch with most of these kids and we speak frequently with the parents. We share and compare information on our childrenās experiences at their respective schools and find that they are quite similar in the academic arena. I believe NMH is just as respected by colleges as the top preps, otherwise I wouldnāt have seen my older son admitted to top LACās with a 3.1 gpa (no hook, only one AP course). </p>
<p>Again, I was directing my comments to fslzcl who was painting NMH as almost a āremedialā school, or certainly lacking in quality academicsā¦which it most definitely is not!</p>
<p>gonnastopā¦ I got that info from Boarding School Review. I see from Deerfieldās site that they do offer one ESL course. Sorry about that!</p>
<p>English is a major portion of SAT since critical readig and writing). So the SAT difference(about 150 points) is a huge gap, and the difference between a 67% and an 82% on the SSAT is another huge gap. To me it is clear that nmh cannot compete with st. markās on acdemic side. I know st. markās is showing an academic strength these days. ESL may appeal to international students, but not domestic students though! That may be the reason that nmh has many foreign(especially asian) students. It is good to have foreign students, but not too many! </p>
<p>nmh fan has to defend with something else other than academic.</p>
<p>Stop trying to put down either school. Itās petty and shouldnāt be done. The reason I jumped onto this thread is because I was trying to correct a statement I heard as well as share my positive opinion about SM. I also hate seeing people saying things like āwell X is a better school than Q so you should go there.ā No you should go where you will see yourself and where you will be happy. Furthermore itās not only the quality of the education that matters, itās what you do with your education. SM is not an easy school and if you arenāt going to be happy there, then donāt go because youād waste a spot. However, it is really important to really look at a school and consider going to the re-visit days because they can make or break a decision. They did for me. Moreover, donāt judge a school poorly because you had a weird/annoying/unhappy tour guide. Sometimes your original tour guide couldnāt make it due to unforeseen circumstances and the admissions people grabbed someone out of the student center to take care of the tour (sorry this has always bothered meā¦ Iāve seen so many people give up on a school/college based on one student)</p>
<p>Also donāt jump to conclusions quickly about a school because of a few statistics. Statistics are just numbers that donāt always mean a lot. I had friends who did terribly on the SATs but did amazingly well on the ACTs and got into really good schools (some people who had terrible scores for both but really good grades also got in with great recommendations). Furthermore, a kid I know who went to another school got terrific grades, terrific scores, yet terrible recommendations and terrible extracurriculars and it made it difficult to get into any school because nobody wanted a kid who didnāt really try to do anything.</p>
<p>Stop bashing the schools. NMH is a great school and the kids who go there do excel and I wish you the best of luck there Josh =)</p>
<p>I think I am going to apply to both of these schools next year. They both seem like excellent schools.</p>
<p>2010 if you have any questions about SM feel free to PM me!</p>
<p>I really donāt know too much about SM but Iāve drove past it a few times and from what Iāve read on here, it seems great. A little bit about me so you wonāt be wondering: I will be applying as a 10th grade repeat next year (male), need a big amount of FA, favorite subjects:math and science, interested in the arts and classics also.</p>
<p>What is the average class load? 5, 6 classes?
Howās the FA? Is it easy to get financial aid if you need a lot (like 99%)
Are you required to have an afternoon activity like an extracurricular or sports?
Are there club sports or just JV and V?
Is it hard to fit in the classes to complete the classical diploma?
How is the art program?
How about the science/math courses?</p>
<p>Thanks so much.</p>
<p>(Do you mind putting a good word in for me with your advisor? haha)</p>