<p>It sounds like this thread is headed into a familiar direction, the BA vs. the BFA argument. But as Soozie puts it so well, you can and probably should do both in terms of applying. Having strong BA schools on your list with a short list of BFAs will probably be the way my D goes. Right now she is at the CMU summer program and all the talk amongst the kids is NYU, U of M, Elon, etc. But she needs (and will, she's only a rising junior) to realize that there are tremendous opportunities for theatre at many BA schools, along with getting that whole more traditional liberal arts background. She will probably apply to BA schools and throw in a few, what the hell---why not try it, longshots, such as U of M or NYU or whatever. By the way, I just looked more in depth at Sarah Lawrence's theatre program. I went there, didn't do theatre, and even I didn't realize what a unique program they have. It sounds similar to Tisch in that you can spend close to 50% of your time in theatre classes, plus it has an amazing sounding study abroad opportunity in England. Anybody else heard anything from current theatre students there?</p>
<p>HSN, I have had several students apply to Sarah Lawrence. I also had a student a few years ago who only wanted a BA (this was for straight theater in her case) and she had SLC as her first choice and is now a rising junior at SLC and I believe will study in London this coming year. One of my current rising seniors who wants a BFA I think, but is currently away at a nine week summer theater program, her mom just wrote me this week about SLC for her D and will likely put it on her list, though it is a reach in her particular case.</p>
<p>You may wish to know that you spend more than 50% of your time in theater classes at Tisch though.</p>
<p>PS....one of my students from your area who is pursuing a BFA in MT (a rising HS senior) has on her BA part of her list...Brandeis. Your D may wish to take a look at that school. Same with Skidmore.</p>
<p>Sooze,</p>
<p>Are you a College admissions person? I was just wondering by your screen name and that you said several of my students. Thanks for all the info you have given on this thread :)</p>
<p>JBG</p>
<p>JBG, I do not work for admissions. I am an independent college counselor who assists students and their families who are applying to college. My time on the forum is entirely on a volunteer basis. I do have students/parents who are working with me on college admissions counseling.</p>
<p>Clearly this is what I should be aiming to do in the UK one day. ;)</p>
<p>JBG: At one point, my son, too, thought that the college audition process would be a measure of talent and would therefore tell him whether to "keep moving" along his acting career path. But, he does NOT think this anymore. You will see that there are kids who are accepted at schools that are consistently touted as top tier schools and rejected at schools that are not considered to be as elite. There are many reasons why the college audition may not tell the whole story--or even the most accurate story--about an individual.</p>
<p>More compelling is this: He performed in a professional production over the past several months. One cast member was a faculty member at one of the schools mentioned here frequently. One cast member had a BA in something from somewhere and an MFA from Yale. One cast member had a similar type of BA degree and some studio training. And one cast member had no college or studio training at all. They were all excellent. All five cast members received wonderful reviews.</p>
<p>If your son wants to pursue MT, it seems as though he is talented enough. He'll make it, one way or another.</p>
<p>JIJane: I love to read your posts! You have wonderful insight into the situation for students in the UK. You SHOULD be a counselor!</p>
<p>jbg Reading your first post reminded me of the same conversation we had with our son before the audition season last year. He only wanted to apply to 4 schools with the same thought that if he wasn't good enough to get in to one of those schools, he should not pursue MT. Luckily, he was accepted at all four of his schools so we never had to find out if he would have given up. I think the comment was just his nerves speaking so he would have a way out if the auditions did not go well. This is such a great time. I am sure your son will do well with all the prep he has done. Good luck.</p>
<p>I agree with the recommendation to look at Muhlenberg as a "safety" school. My daughter had strong academics and would not have been happy at a school that offered music or theater but did not have a student body that was of a similar academic level to hers. She also applied and was acccepted to American, GW, Barnard and Brandeis. They would all have trained her in music, voice and theatre, while offering excellent academics. She also looked into Skidmore, Vassar and Tufts, but did not apply to them mainly because they did not offer merit aid.</p>
<p>She will be starting NYU in 3 weeks (a BM in vocal performance--music theatre.) </p>
<p>As for the other point your son made...I really can argue both sides of it. For some students who are rejected by every music theatre program they apply to, perhaps it IS a wake-up call to their true ability level and whether they should be going forward in music theatre. I have seen many children and parents who have really missed the mark in understanding a student's ability, especially on a national level. And many times they are just not told by others.</p>
<p>Attending festivals, pre-college programs, all - state screenings etc. will give one a better idea of where one stands. If these indicators are positive, and one does not make highly competitive programs, one has to assume that other factors came into play (type, sheer competiveness of the program, etc.). These factors may have no bearing on the students talent or ability to succeed.</p>
<p>A girl we know of was supposedly rejected by every MT audition program she tried out for this year. At the same time she was applyng to college, she as also auditioning for Spring Awakening. Guess what???!!
...instead of going off to college out of NY, she is attending a non-audition program in theater and has a lead on Broadway!!!</p>
<p>^^^Yeah, people don't realize you can make it without a BFA in MT, LOL. My D's friend in her a capella group at NYU, was a freshman this past year in ARTS AND SCIENCES but has a very good voice. She is now on Broadway in Spring Awakening in ensemble and understudies the lead. She wasn't even in Tisch. She didn't try out for Tisch, but just saying that talented people in MT are also in the liberal arts.</p>
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I have seen many children and parents who have really missed the mark in understanding a student's ability, especially on a national level. And many times they are just not told by others.
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<p>I see this a lot. There are some who are quite unrealistic in terms of their skill set and the level fo talent that is out there and are honestly not competitive for a BFA in MT. You are right that sometimes they are just not told by others. Sometimes, they truly don't want an HONEST assessment or can't "hear" it.</p>
<p>
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Attending festivals, pre-college programs, all - state screenings etc. will give one a better idea of where one stands.
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<p>I very much agree with this too. While one need not attain one of these benchmarks in order to get into a BFA program, these benchmarks are very helpful in ascertaining one's competitiveness and whether in the ballpark for admissions to a BFA. The self evaluation among a wider and stronger talent pool, as well as any achievements in that pool, all help to have an idea if one may be in the "running" for a BFA. You can get in without these benchmarks, but just saying these benchmarks are helpful in assessing artistic competitiveness in the field prior to college.</p>
<p>Thanks again to all with great advise :) We are off to visit one more school tomorrow. Just wanted to say thanks again!</p>
<p>JBG</p>
<p>For the person in Texas who started this thread, I have a few additional ideas.</p>
<p>Consider non-auditions schools - University of Tulsa (BA in MT) in OK and Ouachita Baptist University in Arkansas (BM in MT).</p>
<p>Consider University of Texas if your student's academics will allow admission. I understand that they are in the process of starting an MT focused program within theatre.</p>
<p>Consider BFA audition-based programs in Texas - TCU and Sam Houston State.</p>
<p>I'd like to add that I've personally seen many people who are very talented and also very successful who do BA programs rather than BFAs. Good training can be obtained many places. Evaluate bio's in the next playbill you get, and you'll agree with me.</p>
<p>Texas State does have a pretty solid theater department. You should give it a look.</p>
<p>I agree with Ericsmom. My D auditioned for both BFA and BA programs, and was thrilled to be accepted to some of each type of program. She found the training to be pretty similar in both the BFA and BA programs at several of the schools, and actually chose a BA program which gives her some flexibility for a minor in VP, etc. Course for course, she does not have many more LA classes than the BFA programs required, and has the opportunity to take additional performance classes in additional to her MT core classes, which begin her first semester. Just keep an open mind and dont sell the BA short without looking closely at it- visit the schools, sit in on classes, and by all means go to performances if you can. When you graduate and start auditioning, it is not a matter of whether you have a BFA or a BA, but what you do with the training you receive will be evident by what you bring to the audition.</p>