<p>Hi there. In talking to my sons directors we have mentioned looking for a safety school/non audition and wondering what programs might be good.</p>
<p>Two of his directors told him that if he doesn't get into a top school, he should wait, go to a year of Community College and try again.</p>
<p>My Son says, If I can't get in to a decent program, why bother, that would be telling me that I wouldn't probably make it in the industry. I think this is a pretty good point.</p>
<p>What do you all think.....and do you have any reccomendations of non audition programs that really are pretty good?</p>
<p>I guess he just looks at it like, the audition process will tell him if he should keep moving forward in MT.</p>
<p>Just because someone doesn't get into a "top" program does not mean that they do not have what it takes to make it in the business. There are many factors that go into determining what students a program will take. It's very possible that, after four years of steady training and committment in one of the many, many great BFA or BA programs, will grow him into a very castable talent - if he isn't one already. What I would be more focused on is the fact that he is placing his worth as a MT performer on a college audition process. He may not be as passionate about this business as he thinks he is or have the skin necessary to "make it." I think that would be what you, as a family, should really sit down and discuss. Does he really want this? It's too tough of a business to not be determined against all odds and opinions to make it.</p>
<p>It's always important to have a great non audition school. Where do you live? We live right outside Philly and my D's non audition school was West Chester University. It was such a relief to get an acceptance there before audition season started- she knew she would be going to college and studying what she loved no matter what happened during the audition process.</p>
<p>If a student does his/her research and compiles an appropriate list of schools at which to audition/apply, there is no reason that he/she would be left with no school to attend. A "top" school is not what your son should be aspiring to, but rather a school at which he can obtain good training and where he will feel comfortable, in addition to being one to which he can be accepted. The problem with the advice given by his 'directors' is that he would then be applying as a transfer, and that is often even more difficult than applying as a freshman.</p>
<p>Believe me I agree with what is being said :) I'm sorry if I came accross the wrong way. We do have to remember that he is a 17 yr old boy. He LOVES what he does and yes he does it well. He has yet to ever not be cast in a show that he has auditioned for. He is smart in what he auditions for and goes for rolls that he knows suits him. He has worked very hard for the last two years....private voice, dance classes acting workshops and show after show in all different company's.</p>
<p>He knew that his high school competition was not enough so he has reached out and gone after more difficult competition. </p>
<p>Anyway....I just wanted to clarify that he is VERY commited to MT. He has done this all on his own. It took Dad and I a while to "get on board" believe me. We will support him no matter what.</p>
<p>That said.....I really was looking for some decent non audition programs.</p>
<p>We are in TX and he is planning on applying/auditioning to NYU/Tisch, U of M, University of Cincinnatti, OCU and Otterbein.</p>
<p>You've already gotten great advice. If your son has the talent, and it sounds like he very well might, there is no reason he would be shut out of a college where he can study MT. But the creation of his list is very important in order to yield results. First, his list must be balanced academically vis a vis his academic qualifications....some academic reaches, matches, safeties. </p>
<p>Then, for the BFA part of his list, he really needs at least 7 or 8 BFA programs (you have too few) given the odds even for the most talented kids of all (very low admit rates). He also needs to balance the BFA part of his list with a range of artistically selective schools. Right now, he has only "top" ones on his list and he needs more of a range (even if the other BFA schools take a low percentage, some are less "elite" and do not draw from as competitive of a national talent pool or else those admitted to "top schools" attend them and open slots at the others). So, his BFA part of his list needs more schools and more of a range and not just the top schools. Then, he could add one or two audition based BA schools which are also competitive but often not quite as much as the BFA programs. Lastly, he should add two non-audition BAs, one of which is also an academic safety for him. Don't forget to also weigh his academic chances at each school on his list as this is also an important consideration.</p>
<p>AlwaysAMom linked to a good thread where some non-audition BAs were discussed, along with some audition based BAs.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advise and the link to the "safety schools" I had thought that he had two few schools on his list from what I had read here. We have visited all but one of those schools and thought that we had a pretty good mix there. I guess we still need more research :) He has done very well in school. 3.7 unweighted GPA with all honors and AP classes and an 1850 SAT so we are in the ballpark for all of his list....U of M was a bit on the boarder from our understanding.</p>
<p>Can someone explain to me the point of an acting or MT course where you don't have to audition to gain a place? Surely that means that there is absolutely no guarantee that you will be training with people of a high standard of talent (or say the same standard of talent as yourself) and acceptance would be purely dependent on your school grades, which has nothing to do with success in the performing arts industry? Why would you want to waste your time attending a course like that when you could be studying something else for a year (or filling your gap year with otherwise productive projects) and try again for a competitive college programme??</p>
<p>I do not agree with you. I know many extremely talented MT students who could get into top BFA in MT programs (even did) who WANTED to do a BA path for the type of education they would receive. (some of these kids are Equity and have won national awards, for example, or have even been on Broadway) And at their BA schools, the level of MT talent is VERY high. Examples of non-audition schools where I know some top MT kids attending and where the level of artistic talent is high.....Northwestern, Yale, and Brown (these are not the only ones, however). I have seen the talent of these students and it is on the level of BFA students.</p>
<p>jbg...you can't just look at GPA and SAT. The rigor of your son's HS curriculum will matter at places like UMich and NYU, as well as his class rank, and extracurricular achievements. His SAT is on the lower end for NYU but he CAN get in with that SAT but the rate of admission with that SAT is lower, that's all.</p>
<p>His BFA list right now is too short and full of top programs and so now he needs to round out the list to increase his odds, even though he has a chance at those schools. The admit rates are so low that even top talented kids get turned away and so you need to increase his odds now by rounding out the list (this doesn't mean he won't get into those schools on the current list but only that it is too chancy to rely on that happening).</p>
<p>Soozie - From various posts discussing compiling a list of colleges to apply to, it is indicated that one should add two non-audition BAs to round out their list. I understand the purpose of this as it has been explained several times. However, when looking at the 'Big List' on the FAQ page I notice that there are non-audition BFAs as well as non-audition BAs. Could we add non-audition BFAs instead of the non-audtion BAs as our 'safety' schools ??</p>
<p>I think the point of non-audition schools is that they are less chancy and do not rely on an audition and the low admit rates of most BFA by audition programs. </p>
<p>It is VERY important to understand that just because a school is non-audition, it doesn't make it SAFE!!!!! A non-audition school is only a safety or sure bet if it is an ACADEMIC SAFETY. Example, Northwestern is non audition and would not be a safety for anyone. Another example, Mulenberg (a non-audition BA) is a safety school for some kids but a reach for some others. </p>
<p>Certainly, a non-audition BFA could be a safety IF it is also an academic safety. I'm not aware of many non-audition BFAs though.</p>
<p>PS, please be aware that Texas Christian University (TCU)'s BFA now requires an audition, unlike as noted on the Big List.</p>
<p>PPS...please be aware that some non -audition BFA in MT programs, such as Mars Hill College, may not have an audition to be admitted as a freshman but DO have an audition to advance INTO the BFA program after a year or two.</p>
<p>The colleges listed on the Big List as BFA non-auditions are: (I removed Texas Christian):</p>
<p>University of South Alabama (BFA)
Metropolitan State College of Denver (BFA) Colorado
University of West Florida (BFA)
Brenau University (BFA) Georgia
Shorter College (BFA) Georgia
Wichita State University (BFA) Kansas
Northern Kentucky University (BFA)
Western Kentucky University (BFA)
University of Minnesota-Duluth (BFA)
University of Mississippi (BFA)
Avila University (BFA) Missouri
Catawba College (BFA) North Carolina)
Marietta College (BFA) Ohio
Texas State University-San Marcos (BFA)</p>
<p>And thank you for the reminder regarding academic qualifications. Fortunately, I believe we are in good shape: top 1% of her class in a strong academic school, 32 on her ACT, 4.6 weighted GPA/ 3.8 unweighted with many AP and honors courses, student council, Girl Scout Gold Award, numerous clubs as members and officers, presidental volunteer award all years in high school, Character awards, etc. </p>
<p>And thank you again for always sharing your extensive range of knowledge.</p>
<p>In my opinion, and I hope I don't offend anyone who goes to the schools you listed, but for a student of your D's caliber academically, I would MUCH prefer a non audition BA like Muhlenberg, Rollins, or many others, than a non audition BFA school such as those. I also would consider schools with a BA in Theater where there are opportunities to take voice and dance and where there are MT opportunities on campus.....such as Skidmore, Sarah Lawrence, Goucher, etc.</p>
<p>PS....In my view, an excellent BA non audition option for your D would also be Indiana University where one can do a BA individualized major in MT. Your D would likely receive a merit scholarship there!</p>
<p>AND...for your D, based on the little you shared, Muhlenberg, Santa Clara, UC Irvine, or Rollins would be safeties and she could do a lot in MT at any of these.</p>
<p>One more thing....Northwestern would NOT be a safety but your D may very well be a contender there and would be worth an application as a non audition school as long as she had an academic safety as well.</p>
<p>We have read many of your 10,000+ posts and have tremedous respect for your inputs. We will definitely look into the Skidmore, Sarah Lawrence and Goucher and any other suggestions you might have.</p>
<p>JIJane,
I can't speak for MT so much, but the value in attending such schools as Sooz mentions for acting is that they do offer a great overall education and can be very good springboards to the top MFA programs and non-scholastic professional training studios. Actually, that is what many in the American educational theatre establishment recommend although the obvious flaw - especially if you're female - is that you'll generally be at least 25 and very deep in debt before you finish your training and have a go at the real world of professional theatre, TV, film, etc. Of course, as Sooz also mentions, there are a number of child stars, kids who come from well-connected entertainment families, and big city rich kids who have had access to great training their whole lives who do very well at such schools. Then there is also the very rare "genius prodigy" who doesn't need much training although my own experience is that the kids who fancy themselves as such tend to be in for very rude awakenings ... I think most talented 18 year olds have some things they can do well, but ... you know the rest. :)</p>
<p>The kids I know who have chosen a BA path and were of BFA caliber (either got into top BFAs in some cases, or could have if they wanted a BFA), were not from entertainment-connected families whatsoever. They were every bit the same as the kids who went to BFA programs. They simply WANTED and preferred a BA school. They have played numerous leads, done some professional theater, done the same training as those seeking BFA programs, and in some cases garnered regional and national awards, just like their BFA counterparts. They simply decided that they wanted a school like Northwestern, Brown, or Yale. Perhaps they will get MFAs and perhaps they won't. I also know kids who went to these schools who have made it in the theater world. </p>
<p>I know many kids who chose only to apply to the BFA in MT at NYU, UMich, CMU but otherwise applied to all BA schools such as Northwestern, Brown and Yale. They were not tied to a BFA. They turned down a BFA in some cases, for the BA schools. I know someone headed to the BFA in MT this fall at UMich who only applied to the BFAs at UMich, NYU, and CMU (got into the first two, waitlisted at the third) but the rest of her list were all top BA schools for theater, including Ivies and Northwestern. She preferred those schools over many BFAs and so her BFA list was short. I know a bunch of kids who did this as well and in some cases, chose the BA school, like Yale OVER the BFAs they got into like Tisch. </p>
<p>I have seen musicals at Brown and the caliber of talent was on part with some BFA productions I have seen. </p>
<p>My D recently saw a showcase of some current Yalies in MT at Joe's Pub (including several of her theater pals), and the talent was excellent she said (and knowing the kids I know who attend, I can attest that these were top talented MT kids who were on par with their peers who opted for a BFA path). So, this may not be true at ALL BA schools but there is some heavy duty talent at some BA schools. And students from those schools end up very successful in theater, including on Broadway and tours.</p>
<p>I have had several clients who have extensive MT backgrounds who have decided that they want a BA and not a BFA even though they are contenders for a BFA artistically (and academically).</p>