My son goes to a Top Public/Magnet/Charter school in the country. They do NOT reveal the ranks except for the top 10% My son is most likely between Top 20% in a class of around 60 students. This school is one of the most competitive schools in the country. Most kids take about 15 APs!
Since my son knows two of the top students and has gotten an idea of Top two kids overall UW GPA - which is around 3.88/3.87 and my son UW GPA is 3.83. Yes, the top 20 students in the class are separated by less than 0.1 UW GPA. My son by the end of senior year will have 17 APs (all math related subjects of 5 and most non-Math related subjects of 4 with one 3 in human geography).
Question - Officially, the school does NOT reveal how far behind any student is from the Top student if you are not in the Top 10%. Hence, how can he inform a potential admission officer in top colleges that his GPA of 3.83 is not that bad & not that far away (only 0.05 away) from the topper (that data is not known to the students)? Or, the Top 33%students GPA are all bunched up within a small band?
We are worried that UW GPA of 3.83 on paper would look bad at the outset unless the admissions person finds out more about the context. There are many of his friends from his middle school who have 3.95 UW GPA or even 4.0 UW GPA from regular public schools who did not make it to his high school. BTW, his Weighted GPA is around 4.5
What is the best way to indicate this in his application - Not ranking has a huge downside for students who are Not Top 10% but are in the Top 15-20% especially in a small class.
Appreciate comments from any student or parent have encountered such an issue? Thank you.
If you are targeting Texas public universities, rank is used instead of GPA there. At UT Austin, top 15-20% rank is unlikely to be competitive when 3/4 of the class is filled with top 6% Texas students.
I have no experience with such a situation, but it seems to me that the college will understand the caliber of school since it is top ranked. The AP tests should also demonstrate academic ability. At my school there is grade deflation. In addition, the GPA system is out of 4.5 W and even a 3.8 UW is basically valedictorian if we named one. Students still seem to do fine in terms of college acceptances and in many cases it is advantageous to be attending my school.
What state is your son in? If he is in California UC is a great shot.
Yes, rank is also an issue in addition to tough grading system. Going to a top school that is small in size - screws up the Ranks too - Top 6% of the class is actually 3 students!!
But, individual programs we found out in some schools take in to account the school from which the student has graduated.
It does depend on which colleges he’s targeting. But your GC can comment on how bright, motivated, successful, etc, he is, despite a small class size making his rank outside the top 6 kids. Outside the Texas example, it’s not just school rep, bt the comments that come through about him. On that note, be sure to choose rec writers with some savvy. In general, one humanities, one stem, an 11th grade teacher who knows him well, is happy with his perfomance, and can write a full good LoR. And make sure his whole picture matches what the collges look for, not just stats.
What do matriculation/acceptances for previous classes of the school look like?
If he’s at a top school in the country, the adcoms will know the school’s reputation and the caliber of the students.
FWIW, this isn’t so unusual of a problem. Many schools have the top 20 kids separated by tenths or even hundredths.
Your son’s 3.8 is not going to keep him out of a any particular school if the rest of his application strong.
If this is one of the top schools in the country and only has 60 students per grade, I would think that AO’s will know that there is no real difference between being in the top 10% and being in the top 20%. Also, if your son’s school has Naviance, look and see what kind of schools grads with a 3.8 GPA got into.
Hi Purple Titan - Seniors in his school go to all types of schools. Most of them are in Comp Sci or Arts and some Eng. He knows only one person in the last 3 years - who has gone to Undergrad Business (Wash U). Lot of the seniors go to small private schools (Amherst college, Smith…).
It feels (will look more in to Naviance) like few kids end up in Michigan, Stanford, UT Austin Plan II etc. for Eng or Comp Science! Do not know why students not choose business school - may be this is typical for most top schools?
Also, one of the issues - most of the eng students are planning to go for a Masters directly while business students are advised(agree with that advice) to have 3 years of work experience before pursuing an MBA degree. So, going to a business school that has excellent internship and ultimately placement becomes key for undergrad business majors.
Mot of the top schools in business look at GPA and like UT system looks class rank.
Q - How do college admission officers compare GPA from different schools or Ranks? Do they use data from previous students who applied to their programs from that school or Do school counselors send them what typical GPAs are for top students?
Does anybody have any information? Also, some business programs are direct admits while others you have to be admitted to the University first and then to the individual program.
Thank you.
What rank students get into UT Austin from this high school?
The high school has a school profile that is sent, which explains the grading system, and test scores of the school is a whole. Even if nobody has ever applied from this school, adcams will be able to figure out how rigorous the program is. And it’s in the school’s best interest to ensure colleges know how rigorous the program is. I wouldn’t worry too much.
Thank you CTScoutmom - that is very helpful! going through this process for the first time.
If you google “ school profile “ you can often find it. Otherwise, just ask a GC for it.
I would be goal-oriented.
For instance, while McComb isn’t a sure thing for your kid, he could go anywhere he would at McComb at certain programs at a school like Kelley (and I would be shocked if he was rejected by Kelley if you are full-pay and his standardized test scores are top 1-2 percentile).
Also, yes, top MBA programs care about work experience, but you get an MBA to get a job and in the business world, hustling and selling gets you very far (often as much or more than a top MBA degree).
Long way of saying that I think he and you should concentrate more on exploring industries and roles to figure out what he likes, what fits him, and what would inspire him to hustle and just let the chips fall where they may when it comes to what school he gets in to. In the business world, smarts, hustle, and an understanding of people, markets, and businesses can get you very far and that’s really all you need. A fancy degree is just a cherry on top.
In fact, I would advise a bright kid who really wants to make it in business to enter a sales training program out of HS. They could always pick up degrees later, but he’s probably learn more trying to sell than he would from a b-school.
Actually, his chances are really very good for McCombs - based on his high school’s reputation and the caliber of students who make it to Engg, Comp Science and Honors, and they perform very well (most are in the Top 5%) after entering UT Austin since they have gone through rigorous course work in their high school.
However, there are conflicting opinions about McCombs (online and current students of UT) since UT BHP takes away all the shine from McCombs undergrads (majority of opinion not all people believe that) especially placement.