Non-Traditional Int'l Applicant: Harvard, Yale, Penn, Duke, Amherst

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

I am a freshman at National Taiwan University, applying to Harvard SCEA and Yale/Penn/Duke/Amherst RD. All of these schools consider someone like me to be a freshman applicant, as I will drop out of NTU if I get accepted.

I’m mostly posting this because I am really nervous about Tuesday (which is when Harvard releases SCEA decisions). Since I am expecting a reject from Harvard, I need some opinions on whether I would possibly have a shot at the rest of my list. I don’t have safeties (or matches, even) because I already am in college—NTU is my safety school.

I’m applying to US universities because of my personal career plans as a MD-PhD, foreseeable political unrest between Taiwan and China, and other reasons.

Without further ado, here are my stats:

Nationality: Taiwanese (no US citizenship/PR). Spent all 19 years of my existence on this island.
Race: Asian
Gender: Female assigned at birth, but genderqueer+asexual.
Family: Dad-USC Alum (MA). Publishing firm exec of sorts. Mom-Went to trade school and is a newspaper editor.
Hooks: I don’t know if I’ll be considered as an ORM or an URM. Harvard and Yale each has ONE Taiwanese student only in their undergrad programs, but I’m Asian…so there’s that too. I also have lupus…which really, really sucks.

GPA/Rank: My school doesn’t calculate GPA or rank kids, but my transcript isn’t that hot. I’m guessing around 3.5?
Note: I went to a high school where everyone belongs to the academic top 1% of all Taiwanese students.
SAT: 1480/1600. Retook the December SAT and am expecting a score within the range of 1500~1550.
SAT Subjects: BioM 780, Math1 750, Math2 720. Took them in one sitting.
TOEFL iBT: 118/120
Intended Major: Biological Sciences

Other testing: I took both types of the Taiwanese College Entrance Exams and scored really well on them (hence my acceptance to NTU). In particular, I was the second highest scorer in Taiwan for English, and within the top 0.05% of all test-takers, almost all of them native speakers, in Mandarin Chinese. Not many Taiwanese applicants of US universities have taken these exams. I hope this provides perspective for how I rank among local Taiwanese students.

Awards:

  1. Taipei City Honor Student,
  2. Taipei City Scouting Award

ECs:

  1. Venture Scouts (Senior Patrol Leader, and Club President as well because it’s a school club).
  2. Biology Team (Was the first of 4 students picked to compete for my school in biology competitions).
  3. I run a blog on Tumblr centered around my studies, with around 10000 followers.
  4. Mountaineering: Scaled 6 mountains over 10000ft on 3 separate expeditions.
  5. Translation: I translated and published two books from English into Mandarin in 6th grade. They are still in print.
  6. I am involved in LGBTQ clubs at school and currently am part of a movement trying to legalize gay marriage in Taiwan.
  7. I was admitted into a 3-year program for gifted biology students, hosted by Taiwan’s leading research institution, and was one of the few to successfully graduate. We attended lectures, did lab work, and authored an academic paper.
  8. I was on the Diplomatic Envoy Team. For this we had to write and act in a play, do impromptu speeches, and participate in a quiz bowl. We won 6th place overall nationally.
  9. Triathlon: I did triathlon for a while, but it was in middle school so I mentioned it in the Additional Information section instead.

Essays: I gave it my best effort. Wrote about my greatest passion which is medicine, and poured my heart and soul into it. I’m really sincere and I hope it shows.
Recs:

  1. Lab PI: Renowned in his field of neuroscience. Knows me very well and likes me a lot. Offered to write my rec letter before I even asked him to.
  2. Biology Teacher: Likes me a lot as well. He’s my coach on the biology team, and we spent a lot of time working together. Highly supportive of my plans for the future.
  3. Counselor: She’s actually my Chinese teacher. Knows me well, likes me more than any other teachers I’ve ever had. She has always been there for me and knows me (and my family circumstances) on a personal level. I’m hoping she puts a more “human” touch to my application.
    Misc: I initially struggled with this decision, but finally decided to send in an extra note/essay (via my counselor) explaining my struggles with lupus. In my Common App I only mentioned lupus in two sentences and referred to it as a “systemic autoimmune disease”.

That’s about it. Even though I don’t think I have much of a shot due to my transcript, standardized test scores, status as a (not rich) international student, and ORM ethnicity, I’m still clinging to that last bit of hope and my fingers are crossed.

I look forward to your replies and wish everyone the very best with college applications.

2

As far as I know, once you matriculate at any college you cannot apply to the any of the schools you mentioned as a freshman, only as a transfer. In the US, there is a national database that allows colleges to see if you’ve matriculated at a college before. I don’t know if it applies to schools in Taiwan.

Other posters should correct me if I’m wrong but I fear that even if you are accepted somewhere, they will rescind your offer once they find out you attend another university.

3

@Multiverse7

Not for these schools. I checked to see if someone like me would be considered as a freshman applicant instead of a transfer. And even if my info is wrong, I have “National Taiwan University: Full-time degree candidate; lessons taught on campus” in the “Other Colleges/Universities” section on my Common App. It’s not like I’m hiding anything from the colleges. Everything is laid out under the sun.
To be honest this was one of my biggest worries while searching for a college. And as it turned out I had to give up Stanford, MIT, Columbia, and many other great schools for this very reason.
Thanks though. :slight_smile:

4

I’m not sure what will happen with Harvard. But its a long-shot no doubt.

If you want a US medical education, it will be almost impossible if you are an international student. Very few US medical schools take international students. However if you are looking for US style medical training then look at the collaboration between Duke and NUS. They offer a post-graduate medical degree, and is designed for students in Asia.

Good luck

5

@sgopal2

I understand. The reason I’m saying this because there is a possibility that my father would work in the US in the future. Provided that he’s there before I turn 21, I would be able to receive a green card and be considered as an US applicant while applying to med schools. If not, then I have very few choices to choose from, all of which are extremely difficult to get into.

Either way if I’m going to apply to US med schools, I have to spend at least two to three years in the states attending college (which is what I’m trying to do now). If I don’t meet this requirement then my chances at American med schools are almost nil.

I can, theoretically, go to a Taiwanese med school (possibly even next year if I’m really lucky) but it’s notoriously difficult for international medical graduates, upon passing the USMLE, to get matched to competitive residencies and/or research positions. If that doesn’t work out either, then I’m going to consider finishing college here in Taiwan and get my Occupational Therapist license (I’m an OT major right now) to practice in the States THEN apply to med school with a green card or whatever.

And yes, Duke-NUS is on the top of my list along with Dartmouth’s MD-PhD Program!

6

You should also look into the Caribbean med schools. Although it’s still international a lot of the carribean grads do better in the match than other internationals.

Downside is that the carribean schools are expensive.

I agree your best bet is to do premed in the US. Hopefully the green card works out for you.

7

@sgopal2

Thanks for the recommendation, but I really wouldn’t want to attend med school in the Caribbean. These institutions aren’t accredited by the Taiwanese government (only degrees from the US, Canada, EU, HK, Singapore, Japan, Aus/NZ and South Africa would do), meaning I wouldn’t be able to practice back at home even if I wanted to. And the cost is putting me off.

I am pretty sure that eventually I would be able to get into a Taiwanese med school (it’s a really sick rat race for prospective MDs, but eventually) next year or the year after that. If I do get a green card then I have more options since that’ll get me out of the international applicant pool.
If not, I guess I have to get published in Nature or something :-S

Speaking of which, I plan to do Internal Medicinr with goals to eventually become a rheumatologist. Are IM residencies easier to land than, say, orthopedics?

8

Ok makes sense then why you would want to avoid carribean schools. Yes IM is much easier than the speciality residencies like ortho. There is another forum that has a lot of advice on US med school admissions: studentdoctor

9

Just got my December SAT scores-1500. Not a huge jump but at least I made it to the 1500’s.

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@jamieevren1210 A 1500 converts into 33 on the ACT, while 1480 converts to 32. So well done! You moved a point.

As far as your chances go, being Taiwanese might help although it still falls under the Asian subcategory. Harvard and Yale would be long-shots, but Amherst and Penn might be probable - would have helped if you applied there ED instead.

Add a few safeties and matches to your list. The most important piece in your college application is your high school transcript. Use that as a yardstick.

11

@commonapplicant

That’s nice to hear! Unfortunately it is quite difficult to gauge how I would’ve performed comparing against American students with my transcript: I went to a high school that only admits the top 1~2% of all Taiwanese students. Didn’t do so hot in that pool. I understand that with this transcript it’d be very dangerous to not have safeties (all my schools are reaches) but since I am already a college student, I fortunately don’t have that added pressure. NTU is my “safety school”.

12

Got interview offers from Yale, Duke, and UPenn. No word from Harvard. Amherst doesn’t do interviews.

I also qualified (through a tough translating test) for a freelance job translating professional medical articles and marketing material at one of Taiwan’s best translating agencies. I wonder if this is significant enough to notify the colleges I applied to? I don’t want to bother the adcom about some minor thing going on in my life, but I’m pretty thrilled and honored to be honest.

Opinions welcome. :S

13

Sent LOCI to Harvard. Fingers crossed though all these schools are long shots.

14

Fingers crossed!

15

Amherst decisions will be out in approximately 40 hours. Not expecting anything to be honest but I would love to open up the portal to find a pleasant surprise.