The things Jim Nondorf said this evening were not exactly unknown, but he provided some nuance and emphasis. These are my notes:
–Big stress on “positivity” in the way you present yourself, especially in the present circumstances: show that you can handle crisis, show that you can overcome adversity. Do not criticize others, show what you yourself are all about.
–The Class of '24 is “the most academically gifted and most diverse in the history of the College” (but this is said every year, isn’t it?).
–Last year some 300 apps sported perfect SAT’s: 60 percent were rejected. He seemed to be de-emphasizing SAT. By implication, though not said in so many words, “we’re looking for something more.”
–Of the 35,000 apps received “30,000 were more than qualified”. Again, implication is, we’re looking for something more.
–Big stress on the importance of the essays. This sounded to me like the “more” they are looking for. Should choose topic you know something about or feel something about, something that expresses your nature. Don’t try to be funny if you’re not a naturally funny person. Let someone read your essays, but not a parent. “We can always tell when a parent has had a hand in the writing.” [not good]
–Recommendations also important: whoever writes should know what you’re about, should not be a “blah” sort of thing.
–EC’s were downplayed. You can have many interests, you can have few. There’s no secret list. Looking for passion and commitment in whatever form it takes in your life and interests.
–GPA: “Do not obsess about this”. He seemed to say that they were looking more at the type of courses you have taken in the context of your school - i.e. they would not expect the same level from all schools but rather that “you have made the most of the environment you are in”. Again, seemed to be looking for something more than GPA.
–Videos optional but sounded like a very good idea in that they appear to be looking for a certain type of personality (intellectually curious, determined, positive, etc) which might most cogently come across in a video. Another good way to show the “something more”.
–They do not pay attention at all to “demonstrated interest” as indicated by a visit to campus (even if this were possible). Read the materials you receive carefully, however. There are many videos you can look at.
There seemed to me to be a distinct theme running through these remarks.
^ Good recap. He also mentioned application numbers “just shy of 35,000”, 7% admit rate and 80% yield. Someone mentioned a 6.2% admit rate a few weeks ago. The difference could be due to taking off the waitlist or could just be Nondorf’s version of “Keleven.”
The positivity advice was excellent. He provided very upbeat, matter-of-fact “everyone’s kind of in the same boat” advice and that had to be very reassuring for anyone worrying about their cancelled SAT exam or lack of spring sports, not to mention no campus visits this summer. He also underscored how having a positive attitude now can really impact your essays come fall. Every adverse situation has hidden benefits, so the more we all seek to find these, the easier it will be to gain wisdom and perspective from the quarantine experience and come out with something more interesting than “the college admissions process has now been ruined for me.” LOL. It was funnier when he said it.
“We can always tell when a parent has had a hand in the writing.” [not good]
We’ve heard that in every admissions talk. But, how do they know it’s true? Their assumption puts kids with advanced vocabulary and writing skills at a disadvantage.
^@HMom16 - it’s more than that. Grammar styles have changed over the years. I know that my kids, for instance, use commas and semicolons differently than I do.
If the reader is able to tell by the number of spaces after a period, then the parent is actually typing up the essay. Yikes! IMO that’s more than just a “hand” in the process.
@JBStillFlying My kids have teachers my age - they teach use of commas and semicolons similar to how I learned. Plus that’s reinforced when they study for standardized tests.
@CateCAParent I agree with the two spaces after a period. However, when forced to stick within a specific character limit, I would imagine most people would be quick to eliminate the extra space.
My point is - no one has tested their assumption that “they can always tell…” and it’s annoying to hear it over and over again. It would be interesting to test this assumption.
Take a look at the JHU post on essays they liked. (https://apply.jhu.edu/application-process/essays-that-worked/) Several are clearly written by kids but there is significant variation in styles and sophistication. For all we know, adults were involved in all of these essays - or none.
We tend to ascribe superior characteristics to AO’s and forget that most are young, some right out of college. A good editor is able to improve an essay while retaining the voice of the writer. I may be jaded but I don’t think the AO’s can really tell - I think saying they can is more of a scare tactic than anything else.
I’m agnostic on the question of whether “we can always tell”. My wife, a high school teacher, was pretty sure she could “always tell” with respect to plagiarism, but then that was mainly because she knew the kid from the classrooom. A reader of essays in a college app would not have that knowledge.
Is it therefore possible that such a reader could inaccurately pin this label on a kid? Possibly. But that’s really beside the point, as I see it. I would suppose they’re looking for much more than grammatical correctness and stylistic perfection. That’s what Nondorf was signalling when he referred to “not sounding like a 40-something lawyer”. It was not about detecting cheating so much as about what makes for effective essays from their point of view - youthful exuberance, I would guess, intellectual curiosity, certainly - spirit, inchoate goals, something of the kid’s unfinished view of the world and self. That famous independent-mindedness, quirkiness. Perhaps there are a few forty-somethings out there with Shakespearian imaginations capable of mimicking a youthful take on these things in a convincing and appealing way - but not many. A parentally authored piece would probably sound a bit phoney, a bit dead and unconvincing, and that would not have much to do with grammar and word-choice. It would not be appealing in its own terms, even if it did not damn the kid as a cheater. I take Nondorf as saying that your parent cannot convincingly express what you’re about; only you yourself can do that. Therefore keep your parents out of it, and put yourself in it!
“We can always tell” may not be literally true, but it sounds to me like a useful warning all the same, both on ethical and functional grounds.
Edit: I agree with @CU123 at #9, said with less verbosity.
Would caution against testing the admissions department, even if skeptical about the literal accuracy of "we can always tell . ." The essays are read by more than one youthful AO, and the more the application is kicked up the chain, the more experienced the reader. Very few probably get fast-tracked to Nondorf. One should assume that his/her essay will be read and re-read. And if you submitted an SAT essay, they will already have a baseline (albeit time-constrained) version of your writing style.
I don’t think this is a yes or no question. There are varying shades of help an applicant receives and varying ability for an AO to see how original the applicants writing is. In some cases its just flat out obvious, in others its more nuanced and may not be noticed by the AO.
Brownie, they certainly used to be able to download an image of the essay (in original handwriting) when we looked into the issue a few years ago. Much has changed since then: 1) fewer schools require the essay now; 2) rSAT has made the essay optional; 3) schools allow for self-reporting during application so won’t have access to your score report (and presumably the essay as a supplemental download) if you go that route; 4) UChicago is TO so you don’t even need to report any scores at all, not even if planning to matriculate; and 5) UChicago doesn’t consider the essay (score) to be “essential” anyway, although presumably they consider it if submitted.
Despite all these changes, approximately 70% of rSAT takers opted for the essay as of 2018. Furthermore, I doubt that the majority of students are content to self-report scores on the Common Application and that colleges and universities, including UChicago, are still receiving lots of official score reports. If they receive your official score report, they should be able to view your essay unless policy has changed in the last couple of years.
The Common Data Set Section C.8 part C allows colleges to explain how they use the essay. One of the options is: “as a validity check on the application essay.” Even if that box isn’t checked - or even if the college opts not to file a CDS - I’d assume that this practice is always potentially available regarding any particular applicant’s materials. A simple way to think about it is: If you submitted it, then it’s viewable. There is nothing in UChicago’s application policy - either in letter or in spirit - that contradicts that. In fact, they imply strongly that they will look at whatever you send.