<p>I'm not a student, but a parent of a former Enloe grad now at UNC-CH. My understanding is that the vast majority of Enloe kids in the competitive zone (in Enloe's case, the top 25%) are taking a full courseload of all AP's or in the IB Programme, sometimes both because of the way the classes overlap. Because there are so many overachievers under one roof, a large number of other, very bright, students (like the ones quoted in the newspaper article) are necessarily going to be off the radar for the really selective schools like UNC and Duke. Unfortunate, but given the size of Enloe's graduating class each year, a reality.</p>
<p>^^
I went to Governor's School and Summer Ventures with several Enloe students, most of whom were in the IB program. They said the teachers were excellent but the program was difficult. There were juniors at GS (intended mostly for seniors) from Enloe, which hints at how competitive the school is.</p>
<p>my class doesn't rank exactly: ie, all they will tell me is that I am in the top 3% (of 113). but my school isn't really competitive. I have a 3.9 unweighted and would probably be val if we had one. My school actually grades fairly, so unless you are a sadistic genious who has no life, you will not get straight a's at my school. so i guess in that way it is competitive. but not that many people will do the work, so it is not bad. to put it another way, i applied to yale SCEA and it was a big deal. eight years ago, a girl went to harvard, and they still talk about her. </p>
<p>i support ranking (but only with weighted grades)</p>
<p>"Under the state's grading system, there is incentive for students to take more difficult courses to raise their GPAs and class rank. An A that equals a 4.0 in a regular course is worth a 5.0 in an honors course and a 6.0 in an Advanced Placement class."</p>
<p>The discussion should not be about the merits of ranking or not. It should be about the absolute ridicule of a scale that weighs the classes by as much as 50%. No wonder why underperforming students want the ranking to disappear! They probably wish for colleges not to be wise enough to figure how misleading a 4.00 is in NC.</p>
<p>xiggi: Would you clarify your point here? Every school sends their school profile, along with the student transcript, don't they? Included in that profile is an explanation/description of courses taught: regular, honors, AP, IB. So, regardless of whether GPA's are calculated and individual students ranked, a college would know and understand (simply by reading the profile) the difference between a weighted 4.0 and an unweighted 4.0, (or whatever), wouldn't they? And obviously, colleges would also have the individual student transcript in front of them, revealing the courseload the student chose to undertake. Maybe I'm mis-reading what you are stating here, but most schools give weight to AP or honors courses, in comparison to 'regular' courses, no? I cannot envision a school that gives equal weight to, say, a 'regular' math course and an AP calculus course, or to beginning pottery 101, compared to, say, an advanced physics course . At any rate, I don't understand what would be misleading, given the information colleges receive: school profile, explanation of courses, and individual transcript. </p>
<p>On a related note, the article mentions a public charter high school in Raleigh (Raleigh Charter), where the principal chooses to "white out" the rank when he sends out individual transcripts to colleges. I am stunned that a principal of a publicly funded charter school would tamper with a student transcript, considering it's an official state/county document (and currently required by law?). I'm equally surprised that students and parents of Raleigh Charter aren't upset about this, and that colleges will accept those transcripts.</p>
<p>I agree with xiggi in that students wish to take ap or honors classes to raise their gpa. But, what about the students who take gym or easy art classes to raise their unweighted gpa. They don't know that colleges look at course selection a lot more than they look at class rank. My school noticed this a while ago and decided to drop class rank. I never have to worry about it anymore. It hurt the people that were ranked high, but it helped everyone else.</p>
<p>Class rank is necessary at most school. It rewards those who take the hardest courses. I went to a school(IB program) freshmen and sophomore year, and ranked out at #1(tied i think). Yes, its damn right that I should be rewarded for taking AP courses in freshmen year while others didn't. </p>
<p>Now I go to a school that is probably as competetive as Enloe(NCSSM) and we don't have rank. The reason is that the school is already so competetive that rank would be detrimental. If you think about it, you could argue that a student taking partial differential equations in 12th grade here should get 7.0 credits, more than a student taking AP Calculus BC. Considering that almost half the school here will have finished multivariable calculus before graduating from here, rank would sucks for us.</p>
<p>Yes, I have no problem with class rank, either. I still don't quite understand, though, what xiggi is saying. Regardless of whether a school maintains or eliminates class rank, colleges can still determine what the grades mean, by looking at the individual transcript and the school profile.</p>
<p>I actually go to Enloe and it is as rigorous as people say. I am actually against class rank because I think not using class rank prevents colleges from using arbitrary cutoffs in the admissions process. If you pay $80 to apply to a school they should be forced to spend at least a little time figuring out where you stand in your class and at your overall application. Otherwise colleges can arbitrarily reject you based solely on your class rank and SAT score because they are so overloaded with applicants. No one at Enloe is naive enough to think that colleges will overlook the poor grades which are directly proportional to a low class rank. However, hopefully colleges will be forced to spend a little more time with all applicants because frankly for $80 everyone deserves at least an hour of someone's time. Another reason to get rid of class rank is that with many universities preoccupation with how they rank on US News, etc. and the class rank aspect of these rankings students at truly competitive schools who are in the top 25% are at a disadvantage not because of performance but rather because of a number.</p>
<p>Attack99, the fact that you go to such a competitive and well-regarded school is going to give your application far more face time with an admissions officer than you think. I'd be equally willing to bet that you will have favorable "buzz" around you before they even get to your ranking, stats and essays simply becase of where you attend HS. But I'm not sure that it's always so pat a case that students are being overlooked because of "poor grades which are directly proportional to a low class rank." I think that in general, admissions officers may also be looking at the difficulty of courses being taken and the accompanying weighting as well. If I were an admissions officer receiving 20,000 applications each year, I'd want some kind of consistent measure of the kind of work attempted and weighting and ranking would give me that. It would tell me who's trying to stretch and tackle something outside their comfort zone for instance. Maybe the student had to really struggle for that B in AP whatever when they could have for sure gotten an A in an Honors course. Shouldn't someone who tackles the "most challenging coursework available", to use the lingo, be ranked higher and perhaps viewed more favorably than someone who takes on less?</p>
<p>"Shouldn't someone who tackles the "most challenging coursework available", to use the lingo, be ranked higher and perhaps viewed more favorably than someone who takes on less?"</p>
<p>But of course the sincere student learns not for the grade, but simply for the joy of aquiring knowledge and self satisfaction. </p>
<p>I know people on these forums will argue with me. But I've seen at least 10+ people in person who learned because that is what they loved, got B's, and got into MIT/Caltech/Stanford/HYP. </p>
<p>Rank hurts. Especially at competetive schools. The top most students could get into any college w/ or w/o rank. The lower students are hurt by rank. It also instills unhealthy competition.</p>
<p>WOw, skipping lunchtime to take extra classes?? (in the article)
that is insane.</p>
<p>I thought my highschool was overly competitive... it kinda is. I`m so glad that my school doesn't rank though. We don't even have class valedictorian because its so hard to choose.</p>
<p>I am very happy that my school doesn't rank. We have only 97 seniors, so competition for the top ranks would be fierce- if it isn't so already. Ranking would absolutely not be fair to the middle of the pack students who might not be able to take the most challenging courses at the school. My school offers only IB diploma or certificate. If you aren't doing the diploma you are at a great disadvantage if we were ranking. Some kids are taking 4 HLs when others are only allowed 3. The difference between the top 10 is absolutely minute and ranking just wouldn't make sense here.</p>
<p>I go to Enloe, and I've seen the sign. There's a huge poster right outside of my math class that says:</p>
<p>"Abolish Class Rank. Establish Summa Magna System"</p>
<p>Now I don't know what "Summa Magna" system is, but there's also one thing. In the beginning of the year, students were told to take home and sign a "student booklet" or handbook. It basically had all of the county school system rules, etc. In it, it specifically says that students may not petition anything. No wonder all of the petitions we signed in 6th grade about lunch seats were ignored -_- But the point is, everyone signed it.</p>
<p>So actually, those students who signed it are breaking county rules and could face severe punishment, though not likely. Plus, you have to take one other thing into consideration.</p>
<p>If you were ranked #1 in a VERY competitive school, and you took like, 5 APs freshman year, and even though you had all 5's on the AP exams, straight A's, etc, blah blah blah.</p>
<p>Then would you really want to abolish class rank? The things you worked your butt off for, would not be shown, and you would essentially be the same as a person who had no honors/APs, failing classes, and barely passed. You would want some recognition.</p>
<p>So what I'm trying to say is, that you should consider who those people that signed the petition are. My guess is, that most of them have low rank, and they want to abolish it, because they can't catch up. </p>
<p>Sorry if that offended anyone.</p>
<p>I live in Northern VA and my school is taking away rank too </p>
<p>hopefully by next year</p>
<p>Also, Sagar, I don't understand why you're saying this stuff about "instills unhealthy competition".</p>
<p>Personally, I think that's really obnoxious and hypocritical of you. At school, don't you always try to be better than everyone else, and be competitive? You're always worrying about appearing better than everyone else, and trying to come up on top.</p>
<p>Another point, if there were no class rank, then many students will lose their ambition to excel, because there would be no immediate recognition or fruits of their labor. Class rank allows healthy competition, and it brings out the academic best in us.</p>
<p>Even if there were no ranks, people would still try to get straight As</p>
<p>My Ds school does not rank, and they have a student of the year (two, male and female) that has more prestige that Val, it includes school spirit, service, ecs, and more</p>
<p>And yeah, we have kids who take the easier classes to up their gpa and colleges see that</p>
<p>So just do the best you can and work your hardest, that will show thgough</p>
<p>and Phonix, perhaps you should learn about what you are fighting against, the summa magna system</p>
<p>and remember low rank is all relative</p>
<p>its like saying well, you got bronze in the olypmics, loser</p>
<p>And, in many schools, you can't even take APs except in a foriegn language, and some AP classes and IB classes aren't any better then regular classes in a prep school</p>
<p>gasp, true true true</p>
<p>see some past threads on that</p>
<p>some schools offer tons of aps, but they really aint aps</p>
<p>Heh (bitter laugh)
At Enloe, those who do not take at least Pre-Calculus by freshman year.</p>
<p>WILL not attain higher than #30~ish rank</p>