<p>How is the intensity of this program as compared to like Caltech?
Can anyone tell me more about what people do post-grad?</p>
<p>bump…
I’m also wondering the same thing, especially the advantage/disadvantage I may have if I apply to grad school.</p>
<p>I heard it is killer. I got an email to apply for it; I asked my counselor if I should and he told me not to because it is brutal.</p>
<p>So I didn’t lol. Maybe he is wrong though.</p>
<p>I was accepted into ISP, and visited NU for a few days, talking to a lot of ISP people and attending a few of their classes. I currently attend Caltech. My take is that the program is very comparable in difficulty to Caltech, though at Caltech, the norm is 5 classes a quarter, as opposed to 4 at NU. </p>
<p>Talking to ISP’ers who were seniors, all I talked to were going to grad school. Like a third of them were going to Stanford, and most of them had double majored in chemistry. However, that can be a little misleading, since ISP’ers who weren’t doing well would naturally drop it and switch to another major well before senior year.</p>
<p>Contact the ISP office at NU, Phone: (847) 491-7219, or Email: infoisp AT northwestern.edu and ask to be put in touch with current ISP students. ISP has made arrangements with many of their students to answer inquiries about the program. If you have particular interests mention the fact so you can be paired with a student with the same interests.</p>
<p>Is it possible to apply to the ISP program in the beginning of freshman year? I was unaware of the program until now and would really love to do it. :(</p>
<p>Try to contact the program director now.</p>
<p>Hey everyone,</p>
<p>Thanks for taking such an interest in ISP. I’m a sophomore in the program right now, and it’s always fun to see others taking the time to review the program. So, to answer a few of your questions…</p>
<p>Insofar as program difficulty is concerned, I can’t speak to the comparable difficulty to Caltech as I haven’t attended class there, but as you might imagine, ISP can be as challenging as you want to make it. Standard freshmen take five courses throughout their first year (four normal courses and A01, an introductory programming course which counts for 1/3 credit/quarter but generates the work load of a full credit course). I’m not sure how the total number of hours in class compares to that of Caltech, but consider that organic chemistry lab is an additional five hours of class time a week to the five you’ll be spending in lecture, and physics lab is an additional two. Much of the difficulty of ISP is wrapped up in the course load combinations you’ll be taking, so simply comparing the number of courses per quarter may not be sufficient to make an accurate judgment. Count the total number of class hours as well - trust me, it makes a difference =).</p>
<p>That being said, it’s not the best to be automatically discouraged by the reputation of the program. To be successful, it helps if you enjoy science, math, and learning. Sure, you’ll be spending more hours each week doing homework than most of your friends, but you’ll be learning more, too. If you consider this a good trade, this program is probably a good match for you. Because of the bent toward learning most members of the program possess, you’ll see a large number of graduates leaving for grad school afterward to pursue PhDs. This being said, I can attest that there are several people in the program who possess extensive outside interests, or don’t give such a consuming dedication to the program without dropping out of it, so it makes sense to give it a try even if you’re not certain of your level of dedication.</p>
<p>There was also some discussion of the future plans of ISP majors, as well as the other majors they adopt - most ISP majors do double (or triple) major in other degrees, although certainly not all in Chemistry. The chem program here is excellent, but I’m quite content with my additional physics and math majors, and still intend to go to grad school.</p>
<p>The one thing that hasn’t been mentioned, and that I consider to be the very best thing about this program, is the degree of mentorship you receive. Since you’re part of such a small collection of students, it’s much easier to be singled out for awards and honors. Also, the cohesiveness of the program means that it’s very easy to get to know students in the program who are older than you. I have friends in all years, which is often very useful when trying to plan out my course schedules, decide which scientific events to attend, find a research lab to work in, look for awards and fellowships, and so on. This is something I’m not sure you could replicate so easily in a larger university, and so might be one of the primary advantages of this program. The people who work with us are used to handling dedicated, ambitious students, and usually understand well that we’re interested in any opportunity available to succeed. </p>
<p>Let me know if you have any other questions =). Also be aware that if you contact the ISP program administrator with questions, he’ll probably forward them on to the rest of us to answer. It also might be a good idea to come visit the program, as other people have stated - note that if you request to meet with students from all years in the program, something can be arranged for you so that you can have a group of students to ask questions of. We’re all very friendly, and we’ve gone through the process of deciding between schools before, so we understand how useful it is to receive the personalized help.</p>
<p>And one more thing (sorry this is so long) - one of you had asked about applying for the program during freshman year. You really want to be enrolled in the program prior to the Wildcat Welcome week so you can be placed in a peer advising group with the rest of the ISP students and enjoy the early mentorship benefits of the program. You can apply after the application deadline - I’ve known people to have applied and been accepted into the program during the summer preceding their freshman year. Just contact the program director or administrator and ask.</p>
<p>Ok, I’m done. Hope this all has helped!</p>
<p>How common is it for ISP students to double major in a non-science/math field? Is it possible to also do engineering through McCormick (even if it takes 5 years)? And is this advisable or probably a waste of time?</p>
<p>Most students in ISP tend to double major in a science field because so many graduation requirements for the major are already fulfilled by ISP coursework. This being said, it’s not unheard of for ISP students to double major in other fields - I knew of a double in creative writing who graduated from ISP, and I’m sure there are a few double-econ majors in the mix as well. One of my friends is in ISP and is attempting to construct an architecture double major (it’s not offered regularly by the university) but I haven’t heard recently how that is working out for her. </p>
<p>A double in engineering is a bit more difficult, simply because of the course work involved with both majors. I know of two people currently that are trying to double major in an engineering field, but there may be more. If you’re interested in ISP and engineering (and don’t mind committing quite a bit of your free time toward pursuing both) it’s quite feasible. This depends somewhat on what the engineering degree is, though.</p>
<p>Actually, we just received an email from the ISP administrator asking for information about current students who are doubling in engineering. If you weren’t the one asking for the advice, I’ll have the administrator forward the data he collects to me, and I’ll post it up here. Let me know.</p>
<p>And to my knowledge, a double in engineering shouldn’t make you stay for five years, unless you’re looking to co-op on top of it. If, for whatever reason, you know otherwise, be warned that financial aid runs out after 12 quarters, so you’d be on your own paying for the last year.</p>
<p>Thanks for the information, Serithsky.
Please post any information you receive about doubling in engineering. I would like to do ISP/ chemical eng. if possible.
Also, this is more of a general question but I’ve heard mixed reviews about the social life at NU. Especially being in ISP, how active is the social life for you?</p>
<p>Hey, I stumbled across this thread while googling some random unrelated ISP things, and found it interesting since I’m a student in the ISP program (going into senior year), but I noticed there were still some unanswered questions.</p>
<p>Questions about the “social life” at a school often somewhat surprise me. Everyone I know at every school from USC to UChicago has a social life. What differs is the nature of that social life which is determined by the attitudes of the people involved. Often times however when people ask about the “social life” at a school, they want to know what the party scene is like. But even if you’re looking for a party school, the nature of the parties is still determined by the people, and each school will produce a different atmosphere. If the social scene is important to you then it’s probably a good idea that you visit the schools you’re interested in to get a feel for the people. But I’ll try to give you an idea of the situation if that’s no longer an option for you.</p>
<p>If you’re comparing northwestern to a state school, then yes, it’s party scene sucks. But then again, if you’re debating whether or not to go to Northwestern or a state school and the social scene is the determining factor, you’re priorities probably aren’t in the right place to be considering ISP in the first place. On the other hand compared to other schools of similar caliber, it’s got a thriving social scene, in spite of Northwestern’s emphasis on engineering. People in this thread have compared NU ISP to caltech. We crush caltech’s social scene (not that Caltech is a high standard to hold ourselves to in this respect).</p>
<p>We’re still a big 10 school, and have a lot of membership in our Greek system. The Greek life ensures there’s something going on on campus almost every weekend, and outside the Greek system people organize a lot of off campus social events. Northwestern is strict about it’s alcohol policy though and you won’t find many lively events in the dorms (the possible exceptions are Elder and Bob halls), and since most people live on campus freshman and sophomore year, these off campus events don’t become relevant until later in your undergrad career. Being at a school full of kids who’s parents can afford 40k/yr also has it’s advantages, and parties here are a bit more upscale than at many state schools, but on the flip side some people look at northwestern students and just see a lot of soon-to-be yuppies. Parties with 150-300 people at a time aren’t uncommon. For most people though (not just at Northwestern), this gets tiring after freshman year.</p>
<p>Parties aside, you can predict what kind of people go here by the admission requirements themselves. The people are as outgoing and friendly as at any regular school, but they have some defining characteristics. To get into Northwestern you need to be a bright and motivated person, but not too bright or too motivated, or you would probably have gone to a better school. The kids still tend to care about their grades and classwork, but mostly only to the extent they need to get an A, most kids could care less about the actual material they’re learning (ISP is an exception to this rule). Imagine the kids you knew in high school that took honors or AP classes, got good grades (mostly As with a few Bs), but were never too excited about what they were learning or did much above and beyond (something like research or starting a successful student program would qualify as above and beyond). Those are the kinds of kids you’ll run into often at northwestern.</p>
<p>It also means that aside from freshmen you won’t see too many people getting trashed (you’ll still see a few every now and then), since they probably have work to do the next day. ISP is a bit more intense in this respect and won’t leave you with as much time to go out as your non-ISP friends. Don’t expect to be going out to a party/movie/show/etc. on a Wednesday night. With the exception of midterms and finals week however, you tend to still have enough free time to go out on weekends (Thursday, Friday and Saturday night). Problems only arise when you take classes from the chemistry department, where the professors enjoy giving 3 midterms a quarter. Even when you don’t go out though, it’s likely you’ll be hanging out with people in your dorm and just shooting the sh1t (I appologize for the leet, but the admins decided to censor it when spelled differently) when you’ve got nothing else to do between homework and classes</p>
<p>
If ACT/SAT averages are any indication, students here are as bright as they come (in fact just as bright as at least half the Ivies?). However, I would admit they’re not as interesting as, say, HYP kids. We do tend to get the best kids from the Midwest (esp those who want to stay near) and high-stats kids from all over the nation but they’re not necessarily the national president of this and national winner of that that abound in HYP. They’re still interesting though… they’re pretty chill and I think that’s actually what many applicants are drawn to. We’re also pretty decent at churning out Rhodes scholars, Marshall scholars and other prestigious fellowship winners.</p>
<p>As far as trashy parties, sophisticated upperclassmen will typically have moved on from them to chill bar scenes…unless you’re Greek then maybe not completely.</p>
<p>I seriously doubt there’s actually a school where the majority of students would do “much above and beyond”. Very few schools churn out more Rhodes/Marshall/Fulbright scholars than Northwestern every year. We had the highest (or tied for the highest) # of Cambridge Gates, Rhodes, and Churchill shcolars this year. We also have the 4th highest number of Fulbright scholars. If there were a school where most people are so special, why wouldn’t that school produce, say, 10 Rhodes or 50 Fulbrights scholars?</p>
<p>In reality, many students are just very busy, stressed, and have their hands full already. The abundance of premeds/prelaws means that large number of students do and “should” care about their GPA given the fact that the admission is so stats driven. You will find that in any top-tier school. It’s easier said than done to go “above and beyond”. Many are just gonna use the small window of downtime to just chill or have fun.</p>
<p>Sam Lee,</p>
<p>Your Rhodes productivity has not been all that great until this year, so don’t be so quick to pat yourself on the back. </p>
<p>Yes, Northwestern had a good year this year. But what about last year? 5 years ago?</p>
<p>Newmassdad, we know that. nobody here really seems to be gungho about the Rhodes or any of the other fellowships. we just happen to win them anyway.</p>
<p>also, winning such fellowships is merely a reflection of investment in the application process. all schools have potential winners, but few apply in the first place. winning is also about the strength of the fellowship offices. some schools have historically been way more aggressive at getting kids to apply and win.</p>
<p>newmassdad,</p>
<p>Look, Rhodes is just one of them; if anything, Rhodes may be the worst indicator since so few are awarded each year. We have done pretty well in other scholarships. We have also dominated the awards at Chicago area undergraduate research symposium. [Chicago</a> Area Undergraduate Research Symposium (CAURS)](<a href=“http://www.caurs.com/awards.html]Chicago”>http://www.caurs.com/awards.html) At the minimum, it shows that our participation level of this event is high, relative to other major schools in the area.</p>
<p>Like brebeuff said, winning fellowships may merely be a reflection of investment in the application process, not necessarily the caliber of undergrad research or undergrads at NU. But it does show NU has good number of students that do “above and beyond” (if going through the competition process counts) and there’s no evidence that we are at the low end among the peers.</p>
<p>
if only it were this simple!</p>
<p>I suspect you have no idea what it takes to win a national award or fellowship. Have brebeuff or sam lee ever even tried?</p>
<p>If you had said winning these things is more a reflection of the student, not the institution, I would have agreed with you. But you seem to be saying the opposite. </p>
<p>FWIW, most folks think this years numbers for Northwestern were a statistical artifact. In other words, one point does not make a trend line.</p>