<p>Evanston is adjacent to Chicago. Providence is an hour from Boston. But yea, sure 6 of 1 half a dozen the other.</p>
<p>I guess Northwestern "has" NY as well...it's a pretty short plane ride.</p>
<p>the reason to choose brown over northwestern is because brown is a better school by certain uncontestable measures that matter most</p>
<p>brown has a stronger student body by virtue of having its pick of students that are also admitted to northwestern. brown admits less than half as many students by percentage of applicants, and (unlike northwestern) is able to get the majority of those student to come.</p>
<p>brown students win many, many more prestigious fellowships (rhodes, marshall, fulbright, etc.) than northwestern students despite being a smaller school</p>
<p>brown has better academic pedigree than northwestern, and as a result sends a higher fraction of graduates into highly sought after jobs and graduate schools</p>
<p>brown faculty are considerably more accomplished than northwestern faculty--there are more pulitzer prize winners, nobel laureates, former heads of state, macarthur genius prize winners, former rhodes scholars, etc.</p>
<p>Dcircle is bang on target..</p>
<p>Also, evanston is about 15 mins away from chicago by car, while boston is about half an hour away from providence by car.. I doubt the 15 minute difference is going to kill you..</p>
<p>And yeah, saying new york is a short plane ride away is pretty retarded.. Might as well go study in idaho.. after all, its only a short plane ride away from everywhere else in the US isnt it?</p>
<p>New York is less than a 3 hour bus ride away from providence, and lots of brown students go to new york over the weekend.. which is why i put that in.. I doubt people from northwestern fly down to new york on their weekends off.. It just doesnt make sense practically..</p>
<p>Wow..what a troll coming to NW board!</p>
<p>Brown faculty is better than Northwestern's? That's new to me. I can't think of any well-known program Brown has. Great faculty but low ranked programs......very interesting combination!</p>
<p>I also don't know if Brown really has "many, many more" Rhodes, Marshall..etc Scholars. Care to give us the links with stats? I do know NW have four Gates Cambridge Scholars this year, more recipients than any other institution (tie with Princeton University).</p>
<p>Haha lol I love you Sam :) You always say so little, yet so much.</p>
<p>Thanks! Oh..and so much for "higher fraction of grads into highly sought after jobs", somehow almost none of them manage to become CEO of Fortune 500 while quite a few NW grads manage to do so. LOL!</p>
<p>haha...providence to back bay/beacon hill/cambridge is 30 mins if you set the world land speed record while driving. Watercannon falls for the universal temptation to understate the commute times that get you from your own nowhere to a more interesting somewhere.</p>
<p>"A short plane ride from Chi to NY" <em>is</em> ridiculous, and exactly as much as saying Providence is "close" to NY. Providence is so far out of the NY commercial and social orbit that it might as well be on another planet. A Brown student can make a little road trip once a quarter or so but they are not part of the same world. Same with Chi to NY. Ask someone from NY how often they think about Providence or a NY employer how important Providence is to them...they will ask you what state it's in first.</p>
<p>I also would be glad to see objective evidence about all these macarthur geniuses roaming around RI.</p>
<p>Searching for big differences between these universities, in terms of academic quality for an undergraduate, is a futile effort. There are not big differences along this axis. There are small ones. But as far as research quality and output of faculty go they are going to favor Northwestern for the simple fact that it is a research institution while Brown is a liberal arts college where some smart faculty do some good research. It is a fine school and there are many advantages to what it is, but a research university in the same sense as Northwestern is not one of them. If one of these schools wants to poach the faculty of the other, Northwestern has an easier time getting them from Brown than vice versa.</p>
<p>Given that im at brown and ive been to both boston and new york id probably know a bit more about the commute times then you would..</p>
<p>Also, your argument about as many northwestern students visiting NYC as brown students because its a "short plane ride away" is so ridiculous that im tempted not to even refute it... If you stopped to think about it, its obvious that people who are a 3 hour bus ride away (bus ticket $20) would tend to visit new york more then people who are a 3 hour plane ride away (plane ticket $100 or more).. And yeah, i know quite a few brown students who visit new york once a month sometimes because its umm... closer maybe?</p>
<p>Maybe I just don't feel as highly toward brown as I should, Ivy league or not, since my friend didn't get into Weinberg at NU but got into Brown. Perhaps the unis were looking for to very different things...but I was amazed when he told me :)</p>
<p>I wonder if I should worry about the "higher fraction of (Brown's) grads into highly sought after jobs" claim by dcircle. I wonder how he knows where ALL NW grads get their jobs to come up with that conclusion? Should I be worried that he got access to my personal information? </p>
<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=108904&highlight=core+top+consulting%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=108904&highlight=core+top+consulting</a> shows the list of core schools for McKinsey, BCG, Bain, Booz Allen Hamilton, Monitor Group, Mercer Management Consulting </p>
<p>4 out of the 6 comapnies had Northwestern as one of their core schools. Northwestern, along with Dartmouth and Columbia, got "downgraded" this past year by McKinsey. Otherwise it would have been 5 out of 6.
In contrast, only 1 out of 6 companies had Brown on its list. </p>
<p>If the claim by dcircle is true (I am still paranoid about my privacy), then I guess Brown students are a lot more accomplished because they do that EVEN without their school being as much of a target school as Northwestern. ;)</p>
<p>Keenya... that was probably a one off case... overall, and im sure sam lee would agree to this, brown is a more selective school.. From personal experience, a friend of mine had brown as her top choice, and when she didnt get it, she eventually went to northwestern.. There are cases of people getting into one and not the other and vice versa, but overall, most people who get into brown also get into northwestern, though not the other way around..</p>
<p>i know, we are so influenced by these things</p>
<p>i was waitlisted by wash u, and into northwestern and chicago
so naturally, i think of Wash U being more selective than these 2, but other ppl may have had opposite results, and have opposite views</p>
<p>i didn't get into Brown, Penn, or Columbia RD so i think of them as being more selective than all of these places....</p>
<p>stats</p>
<p><a href="http://post.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/hoxby/papers/revealedprefranking.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://post.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/hoxby/papers/revealedprefranking.pdf</a>
(Brown ranks #7, Northwestern ranks #23 in revealed preference among students who have the choice)</p>
<p><a href="http://collegeadmissions.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/laissez-faire-1999-2000.txt%5B/url%5D">http://collegeadmissions.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/laissez-faire-1999-2000.txt</a>
(Brown ranks #7, NW ranks #17 in strength of student body, including number of National Merit Scholars, GPA, rank, scores, etc.)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/colleges/colleges.asp%5B/url%5D">http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/colleges/colleges.asp</a>
(Brown ranks #8, NW ranks #21 in composite prestige)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/colleges/selectivity.asp%5B/url%5D">http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/colleges/selectivity.asp</a>
(Brown ranks #8, NW ranks #23 in selectivity of student body)</p>
<p><a href="http://wsjclassroom.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://wsjclassroom.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf</a>
(Brown is the #12 feeder to top professional schools, NW is #21)</p>
<p><a href="http://record.wustl.edu/news/page/normal/2467.html%5B/url%5D">http://record.wustl.edu/news/page/normal/2467.html</a>
(the Atlantic Monthly ranked Brown #9, and NW # 26 in selectivity of student body)</p>
<p>the schools aren't even close, no comparison. sometimes denial is a difficult thing</p>
<p>Eugh whatever people. freak out lol seriously. It's this 'he insulted my school, therefore insulted me, attitude.' To the dude that posted this, don't ask anyone where you should go, that's for you to decide, and if you can't make decisions by yourself then you are not ready to go to uni. period. For everyone else, just keep your individual school pride and know that no one is 'losing out' for going to either Brown or Northwestern. They are both great schools and there are people that would die to go to either but didn't have the opportunity. Just because you go to Oxford or Havard doesn't mean you will rule the world, it's what you do in school, what you seek for, and what you get out of it. sheesh. :)</p>
<p>Haha i think thats the right note to end the discussion on...</p>
<p>Ironic that everyone from the schools has gone on about this, but Jalan hasnt posted anymore after starting the thread..</p>
<p>dcircle,</p>
<p>I wonder why Brown never win anything in debate (do they even have a team?) and now I know. FYI: Northwestern has the best debate team in the country. Other than selectivitity, does Brown have anything that's considered "top-5 or top-10 in the country". You can educate me because I have trouble naming any. ;)</p>
<p>We are discussing economic/business related programs/offerings not selectivity (cos that's already clear) and hopefully not hot girls. LOL! Is that clear? No one even disputes that Brown has lower acceptance rate/higher selectivity. Yet, four out of those six links are about selectivity. It's funny how you try so hard to prove something no one even disputes. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/colleges/published.asp%5B/url%5D">http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/colleges/published.asp</a>
Composite Published Ranking:
NU: 17th
Brown: 21st
So when averaging out all different published ranking, they found that Northwestern is ranked higher. Oh yea, I can always find couple rankings that put Northwestern ahead and vice versa. I think Princeton Review even ranked NU #1 couple years ago. But I just want to look at the average just to be fair. </p>
<p>By the way, US NEWS is the most widely read one. Sorry!</p>
<p>Regarding the WSJ ranking, most of the selected top-15 (by WSJ standard which most can dispute) grad programs are in the northeast. Then, isn't that pretty much expected Brown would do better than Northwestern because of close proximity to most of these schools? Many Northwestern grads don't bother to go to those schools when many can choose to go to Northwestern law, medical, and business schools (all are top-20 programs). By the way, they put Dartmouth instead of Northwestern as one of the top-5 business school and Yale instead of WashU as one of the top-5 med school--two northeast schools instead of two more deserving midwest schools. Interesting!</p>
<p>keenya2006,</p>
<p>I know what you mean. dcircle is the one that comes here to make claims that he couldn't back up with evidence and data. He can't prove lower fraction of NU grads end up in highly sought after jobs. He also implies an employer would pick one over another simply because of the name. That's just can't be proven. He also said NU faculty is less accomplished. It has surprised me a Brown grad would resort to making claims to demean another school without any solid data.</p>
<p>At least I show some facts that seem to suggest his claims are false:
1. More top business consulting companies consider Northwestern as one of their target schools.
2. Northwestern has higher number of more well-known and highly ranked programs.
3. Among the CEOs of Funtune 500 companies, 5 did their undergrad at Northwestern (more if you count MBA at Kellogg) whereas 1 did their undergrad at Brown.</p>
<p>To the OP,
If you want to go to a school that has lower acceptance rate/higher selectivity and an Ivy name-tag, go to Brown. If you want to go to a school with a more reputable, top-10 econ program and wider array of business-related courses (Northwestern also has a top-5 management sciences department, a LOC department, and couple marketing courses through Medill), go to Northwestern. Everything else is subject to OP's personal preference. Case closed... :)</p>
<p>nupspr made a very good point regarding selectivity:
[quote]
As an Ivy League school Brown gets a lot more fantasy applications from people who have no chance but also no real idea what Brown means in comparison to a Northwestern or a UChicago or a Wash U. They get turned down.
[/quote]
I had never thought of it that way. It makes sense that Brown would attract a lot of applications from less qualified students using it as an ivy reach. They get rejected, and it makes the school look more selective. On the other hand, students going for ivy status, will often pass up applying to NU.</p>
<p>And keenya2006, I agree... Sam Lee, you consistently bring excellent information and a great attitude to this forum. I really appreciate it.</p>
<p>Indeed, the SAT stats are very similar despite the significant difference in admit rates. The following stats are from yahoo education (two years old):</p>
<p>Brown
Admission 15,286 applied, 2,534 admitted, 1,429 enrolled
Test scores SAT verbal scores over 500 98%, SAT math scores over 500 99%, ACT scores over 18 100%, SAT verbal scores over 600 89%, SAT math scores over 600 92%, ACT scores over 24 96%, SAT verbal scores over 700 55%, SAT math scores over 700 59%, ACT scores over 30 55% </p>
<p>Northwestern
Admission 15,637 applied, 4,684 admitted, 1,915 enrolled
Test scores SAT verbal scores over 500 99%, SAT math scores over 500 100%, ACT scores over 18 100%, SAT verbal scores over 600 91%, SAT math scores over 600 94%, ACT scores over 24 97%, SAT verbal scores over 700 51%, SAT math scores over 700 63%, ACT scores over 30 68%</p>
<p>This year, NU gets over 18000 applications. Maybe it's selectivity is going up. :)</p>