<p>“NC State has a better graduate Statistics program than Yale and UCSB has a better graduate Physics program than Penn but I would never advise an undergraduate to choose these two publics over the two privates.”</p>
<p>No kidding! That is a shocker. Of course the PA of Yale and Penn is WAY higher than the other two schools.</p>
<p>“I didn’t read his post to state that Mich and Fla are peers, just that it is underappreciated.”</p>
<p>It might be underappreciated, but it is not underranked. Michigan is underranked at USNWR based on their private school biased criteria and their lack of accuracy oversight.</p>
<p>
The PA scores of UChicago, Columbia, Cornell, Duke, JHU, and even Cal Berkeley are higher than those of Penn, Brown, Northwestern, and Dartmouth…what’s your point? The PA is a very silly tool and among the worst used in the USNWR.</p>
<p>“The PA scores of UChicago, Columbia, Cornell, Duke, JHU, and even Cal Berkeley are higher than those of Penn, Brown, Northwestern, and Dartmouth…what’s your point?”</p>
<p>My point is as obvious as your constant condescending attitude toward publics universities. (Read the post above and see what I mean)</p>
<p>Without knowing what you plan on majoring in, the thread isn’t going to help out much. Can you at least tell us whether you’re interested in the sciences or humanities? And are you in-state for UMich?</p>
<p>Otherwise, if cost isn’t an issue, go to NU.</p>
<p>goldenboy,
It’s true, you didn’t directly equate Florida with Michigan, but there was a context to your comment. rjkofnovi expressed incredulity that anyone could think Florida and Michigan are comparable schools academically, and you immediately leapt to defend Florida by saying it’s an “under appreciated state flagship” and “it really is an excellent school!” (exclamation point yours, not mine). In context, then, your comment was clearly intended to validate the equation of Florida with Michigan, and I merely pointed out that there is no reasonable basis for that comparison.</p>
<p>I have no particular reason to bash Florida. It’s a mid-range public flagship, certainly better than many, but with nowhere near the academic resources of the top publics, of which Michigan is clearly one. Florida’s status means absolutely nothing to me, one way or the other. I just think anyone who equates the two universities–or who defends that equation–either doesn’t know what he or she is talking about, or has an agenda. In your case I think it’s pretty clear from the larger pattern of your posts it’s the latter, and I find it kind of sad, and pathetic, really, that you would have nothing better to do with your life than to invest so much time in going around these boards denigrating the University of Michigan.</p>
<p>
I have no personal connection to UFlorida either but rjkofnovi shouldn’t have expressed his incredulity in such a visible manner, making it seem like Florida “was beneath” his alma mater in a very elitist manner. My use of the term “excellent school” in the thick of the moment may have been exaggerated but your absolute war style retaliation was completely uncalled for and frankly would have made a Florida alum who by chance may have passed across this thread feel awfully insecure and embarrassed.</p>
<p>I feel like in general, Michigan alums need to stop taking every slight comparison as a “literal attack” on the university’s reputation. Its an excellent school-if someone doesn’t think its all that, then so what?</p>
<p>
I have strong ties to the state of Michigan dating back to my childhood and have a had a number of close friends graduate from UofM so I have some reasonable basis to have a sort of detached curiosity regarding all things Maize and Blue. Its certainly an institution that I have a fascination for-though I can’t say I have strong feelings for it one way or another.</p>
<p>I don’t think I have ever denigrated the university though I definitely don’t always share Alexandre’s sometimes over the top rosy characterization of the school.</p>
<p>U Mich has great academics and at the same time they have great sports. I would prefer it over Northwestern.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yet you have absolutely no qualms about doing that very same thing on behalf of your alma mater, Duke. Such breathtaking hypocrisy!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s not true and you know it. Go back and look at the pattern of your own posts. Over the past several years you have repeatedly gone out of your way to knock down the University of Michigan, challenging every positive thing that anyone ever has to say about it, criticizing every metric by which people measure its excellence (and there are many, many of these), and seizing every opportunity to compare it unfavorably to other public and private universities, often (usually) on the flimsiest of pretexts. It’s like a weird, demented obsession on your part. I will admit in the past two or three weeks I have been surprised to see you make a couple of mildly favorable comments on the University of Michigan, though these are quite tepid, as in "of course it’s a great university, but . . . " But even if we construe those as positive, the negative comments you’ve made about the university easily outweigh the positives by at least 100 to 1, if not 1,000 to 1. And that’s just bizarre and . . . well, slightly abnormal. </p>
<p>It just makes me wonder what your real beef is. Did you feel slighted by the university in some way? Or are you just so insecure about your own decision to go to Duke instead of Michigan that you psychologically find it necessary to knock down Michigan at every turn to justify that decision to yourself? I just don’t get it. But it’s weird. I spend a lot of time on CC, far more than I should, but I’ve never encountered a CC member who had such a negative obsession about any other school. Honestly, I think you need counseling; it might do you some good.</p>
<p>And no, this is not “detached curiosity” on your part. It’s a negative obsession.</p>
<p>^^^^I seem to recall that goldenboy’s parents attended tOSU. Perhaps that explains the obsession?</p>
<p>This is enjoyable to read.</p>
<p>It was only matter of time for this to become another goldenboy thread.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, as the parent of a D who has been accepted to Michigan EA and is waiting for the results from a few more schools (including ivys), I have watched my daughter grow to love UofM. She is very excited at the prospect (and would I think even choose UofM over a couple of them). Regardless of where she would go given the schools on the plate, she’s going to get an outstanding education because of who she is - not because of the name of the school. And that’s the point concerning all these schools that are bantered about here…Duke, NU, Berkeley, Ivys, Williams, UofM, or any of the colleges and universities that CC considers to be a “top” university/college. All of these colleges combined only account for the top 2% of the kids born in the US in any one year. </p>
<p>The opportunities (and that’s all they are are opportunities - not realizations) from any of these schools is far beyond that of the schools below this threshold. In the real world, the differences between someone graduating from NU or UofM are insignificant what would be important to recruiters (or anyone evaluating the student for their next step in life) is what they accomplished while there.</p>
<p>Re: mekozak</p>
<p>What he (she?) said!! Exactly right.</p>
<p>I finally got to visit the Northwestern forum. As expected, most Northwestern faithful were of the opinion that Northwestern is far superior to Michigan. Sam Lee, as usual, represented Northwestern with class, but the rest were as boorish and opinionated as I have grown to expect of students and alums who attend private universities. Yet again, visiting their forum has confirmed my motives for choosing Michigan over Northwestern (and other private elites) way back in the day. I felt a degree of misplaced elitism at Northwestern that I did not sense when I visited Michigan. This automatically put me off Northwestern (and several other private peer institutions that admitted me) and drew me to Michigan. While Michigan students and alums possess a great deal of pride in their university, and will confidently state that it is better than some peer institutions, by and large, they will generally not overstate their point of view, or denigrate the other institution. Clearly, most Michigan faithful on the Michigan forum have accorded NU far more respect than Northwestern faithful have accorded Michigan in their forum.</p>
<p>To the OP, I would take comments written about both universities with a grain of salt, both on the Michigan and the NU forums.</p>
<p>I have read, very carefully, all the posts. Fortunately, I have had strong association with both the universities. Like most have already expressed, both are very good institutions and personal preference, other than academics, will make one decide in favor of either of them. My unbiased opinion: Michigan is more lively, friendly, and provides a great college experience for youngsters. In terms of academics, Michigan has much more opportunities to offer, though one would require a little extra effort to grab them. However, the perception of prestige is always linked to ‘Private Universities’ with relatively smaller student body. That is why Berkeley and Michigan, while respected globally, will never be as prestigious as Northwestern!</p>
<p>Prestige depends on whom you ask. According to high school kids, Northwestern will be viewed as more prestigious. Among parents who depend on the USNWR rankings, I also think Northwestern will be considered more prestigious. This has nothing to do with private vs public, but rather, with the USNWR rankings. If the USNWR modified its formula to accurately establish true quality, and Cal and Michigan were ranked more accurately, I would say that they would be considered as prestigious in the eyes of high schoolers and parents. </p>
<p>However, in academic circles (this is all that matters for anybody intent on applying to graduate school), Michigan and Northwestern are equally prestigious. Top graduate programs will not favor applicants from one university over another. Major companies consider Michigan and Northwestern equally prestigious as well. This observation is made from my 12 years as a Human Resources professional. I have worked in numerous industries, from manufacturing to investment banking to consulting. Finally, among the social elite and the highly educated, there is little doubt of Michigan’s prestige. </p>
<p>In short, where it matters, Michigan and Northwestern are both highly respected and very prestigious.</p>
<p>“That is why Berkeley and Michigan, while respected globally, will never be as prestigious as Northwestern!”</p>
<p>I disagree. Northwestern is not as well known nationally as, lets say HYPSM. Prestige is often locally driven.</p>
<p>I don’t really agree that the posts on the thread on the Northwestern forum were “boorish” or lacking in respect. Posters there merely voiced their opinion, that being that NU is a stronger school. They didn’t bash UMich as far as I read. In fact the most common response I read was something along the lines of “Umich and NU are probably in the same peer group, NU is just at the top of that peer group.” I think it’s unfair to say that posters here are affording NUers more respect than is being reciprocated. The general consensus here is that Umichigan is about equal to NU, whereas the consensus there is that NU has a slight leg up. I think if NU was being compared to a school that those posters genuinely felt was on par with NU they wouldn’t hesitate to acknowledge that. In this instance, however, they didn’t feel this was the case, and they voiced their opinions accordingly.</p>
<p>As for Publics, I think the national opinion is:</p>
<p>Cal>Mich/UCLA>UVA>UNC</p>
<p>According to USNWR it’s CAl>UCLA>UVA>UMICH>UNC, though we all know these rankings must be taken with a healthy dose of skepticism.</p>
<p>While I agree with your general commentary about the posts not lacking respect for Michigan, the NU faithful would not admit that based strictly on ACADEMIC comparisons Michigan was every bit a peer of NU. If you compared rankings of disciplines, which to me is what academics means, Michigan is every bit as strong and in most cases stronger than NU. There is no question that the student body on average is stronger at NU.</p>