Thanks @twoinanddone. I imagine it can be difficult for a senior in HS to evaluate an athletic program and get a good sense of the vibe in just one (or at most two visits), especially if the athlete is not in one of the income producing sports where they roll out the red carpet.
NU lax has won 5 national championships (I think and am too lazy to look it up) and I don’t think they take a backseat to anyone on campus. They are in the process of building an indoor facility now having shared one with the football team for the last 10 years or so.
As it happens, I was at NU today and the women’s softball team was working out in the same weight room that the football team uses. Of course, they were there at 7 AM!
Of course, every school is different and I expect the FSU wlax team (if it turns out there is one) will probably not be on a equal footing with the football team on day 1 or probably ever.
At the school my D will attend, there is a trainer assigned to her team and they attend every practice and game, which is the standard practice for every sport there.
@twoinanddone, I’m pretty certain that walk-ons can receive the same need-based financial aid that nonathletes receive.
Where are you getting your info (that they can’t) from?
Thanks @BobcatPhoenix!
In some sports (I think the 6 headcount sports at least) there is another system involved for ‘preferred walk ons’. Those 30 extra football recruits receive no need based aid from the school. If they could, all the coach would have to do is pick out the 30 team members who are low income and then everyone on the team would have a full scholarship and the team would have 105 scholarship players.
If the schools could just give financial aid to anyone on any team, what would be the point of restricting scholarships per sport? Any school could just give out the athletic scholarships to the wealthy kids and the need scholarships to the rest. Ivy teams can, theoretically, have 100% of athletes on scholarship but only because they, as a conference, have agreed not to give any athletic scholarships and the NCAA has approved that. NU, Stanford, UVa, ND and other schools that meet need don’t have that agreement and have to follow the NCAA and conference rules. For women’s lax, there are 12 scholarships available and they can be split any way the coach wants, but the coach can’t stretch it to 40 full scholarships by using need based aid as a filler.
Yes, my daughter’s school only has one weight room for all teams, including football (it is D2, so they aren’t bringing in Nick Sabin money). The football team picks when they want to use it, and all other teams schedule around that. The school has only had football for about 5 years, and they still rule. D’s team has lifting at 5:45 am two days a week. They take what they can get.
@twoinanddone,
According to this:
http://diycollegerankings.com/can-college-athletes-receive-athletic-academic-scholarships/6267/
Walk-ons can receive as much need-based state and Federal fin aid as they qualify for (granted, in most states, that’s not much).
They can also receive academic scholarships if they met certain academic criteria in HS.
I know that Saban in 'Bama had a starting center who was there on one of 'Bama’s full-ride academic scholarships (ofcourse_ it’s Saban taking advantage of any loophole/edge out there).
So evidently, it is possible for a coach to stretch beyond roster limits if he/she recruits smart kids.
I had heard rumors that CMU (they’re DivIII) uses merit scholarships this way to aid their football team.
There is a difference between recruited and walk-ons in all sports, but football and basketball have additional rules. If the coach has had in-person off campus contact with the student, if the student has had an official visit, if the student has been presented a NLI, and (there was one more I can’t remember) the student is not a walk-on and must be counted as a recruit. The student can come to campus on an unofficial visit, there can even be a verbal offer of a scholarship, but once it is an OV or there is an NLI, that’s a recruit. If Saban never had contact with the Center and he was truly a walk-on, then maybe he could get an academic scholarship, but then he would not have been able to eat with the team (for the last few years, now is okay during the week), or (now) receive the stipend. He’d have to follow all the rules for that merit scholarship like taking 12+ credits during the season, keeping his grades up, only going to summer school if the scholarship allowed it. He’d be a non-scholarship walk-on. Football players don’t want to be non-scholarship players even if the money isn’t needed. That’s why Christian McCaffrey (and his brothers) take the scholarships offered. They want to be part of the 85. Some sports have team roster limits too, so if the team fills up with scholarship players, there is no room for walk-ons.
Northwestern has 8 signed recruits this year, 9 for next year, in women’s lax (plus transfers?). Making the team would be very difficult if the coach had never had contact with you. I doubt there are more than 1 or 2 walk-ons on the team at any time, unless the student is very smart and knew enough not to take the official visit, asked not to receive an NLI, never talked to the coach at a recruiting tournament, was accepted to the school without any assistance from the coach, AND had financial need that was more than she could get as an athletic scholarship. There is no way I could have figured that out for my daughter when she was in high school. If they had asked her for an OV, she would have said YES!!! and been on the next plane. Sadly, no such request or plane ride for her.
D3 can do what they want BUT if they are found to be treating the athletes as ‘special’ the NCAA will come down on them. A NYC school was just penalized because it gave extra work study hours and other perks to athletes. Big Brother is watching (as are your competing schools, who will turn you in in a second).
@twoinanddone, that 'Bama player had deep 'Bama family ties and comes from an affluent family. He may be been persuaded to do it “for the good of the team” (there was an article I read years ago where a basketball coach managed to convince his top defensive player, who’s a senior starter, to give up his athletic scholarship for the good of the team; effusive praise for the player, “senior leader”, etc., but I thought the player got taken advantage of).
I know that in football, there are “preferred walk-ons”. How do they work? I thought they were recruited. At least, a former coach turned color man on TV talked about recruiting them.
As for DivIII schools and watching: how would they know? Do schools have to report how much academic scholarships and work-study they give athletes to the NCAA?
Anyway, with Federal work-study, it’s much more cut and dry. I don’t see how the NCAA can make a case against academic scholarships with, say, a leadership or conmunity enhancement component.
Yes, the schools report everything. It took me over an hour on the phone with the FA person to apply my daughter’s aid this year so she could use it all. Her school will not give her cash for any of the school issued grants, whether it is merit or athletic or grants, and she has one outside grant (Bright Futures) that is controlled by the school. It was fine when she lived (and ate) on campus, but now she’s very close to forfeiting money. The school has to report how all aid was applied.
The work study money at the D3 school was awarded more generously to athletes. There were some other benefits they were getting too, like being RAs and living in nicer dorms.
There was a media frenzy this week when the father of the UGA kicker spoke out about his son not having a scholarship. He wanted him to have it for second semester sophomore year, but then the kicker would be counted as one of the 25 freshman/incoming students limited scholarships. Everyone was screaming to ‘just give him a scholarship’ but it isn’t that simple.
@twoinanddone, OK, but are preferred walk-ons recruited?
Yes.
@PurpleTital Yes. That’s how you become preferred, I’m pretty sure. Stellar preferred walk-ons or regular walk-ons can earn a scholarship while enrolled.
In Division 1, at least in football, there are no walk ons that aren’t preferred walk ons. If you think about it, they really can’t let “normal” kids on the field for safety reasons.