Northwestern vs. Ivy Schools

<p>Unless you qualify for merit aid, it’s probably closer to $210-225k over 4 years at this point.</p>

<p>There was a study done by some Princeton Professors a year or so ago, where they measured career earnings of Ivy League students against those who were admitted to Ivy League schools, but who attended elsewhere. The conclusion was that there was not a statistically valid difference.</p>

<p>This suggests that your ability, is more important than which school you attend, and can be read to suggest that it’s not worth $160,000+.</p>

<p>This being said – assuming the tuition will not unduly burden your family, virtually all would admit that HYP provides at least as good opportunities in most fields of study and a sizeable number would say that these schools are much better.</p>

<p>Other factors include ‘intangibles’ – if you ignore reputation, where do you feel most at home.</p>

<p>To OP - it seems that prestige weighs a bit more heavily in your mind than tennis, considering that Northwestern has one of the best women’s tennis programs in the country (almost always winning the B1G and winning the national indoor championships a few years ago).</p>

<p>Prestige-wise, yes - HYP are more prestigious than NU (esp. on the East Coast), but as how that translates after graduation, either being in the workplace or going to grad school, any such diff. doesn’t matter (this coming from doing both recruiting and having relatives who have graduated from HYP, as well as Stanford).</p>

<p>You can decide for yourself after your visit, but while some may like the Yale campus better for the overall Gothic revival architecture, I prefer the NU campus for its lakeside location, as well as easy access to Chicago (one of the best cities in the US); NU’s architecture is a bit more eclectic with a combination of new and old architectural styles.</p>

<p>Also, as student bodies go, NU has one of the most diverse since there is a nice combination of those who are more art-oriented (theater, music, journalism) versus those who are more into the sciences and engineering, as well as the liberal arts.</p>

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<p>I don’t see how it’s fair to single out OP’s cultural/ethnic heritage for this when it’s really no different than what we see in the US among those who live affluent areas or within other groups like Jews (I mean gee, why do Jews make up such a high % of the student bodies at the Ivies considering their small % of the overall population?).</p>

<p>There’s a reason why there are many college admission sites geared towards gaining admittance to the Ivies and why the acronym HYPSM exists (I don’t think the relatively small no. of Asians in the US is the driving force behind such things.)</p>

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<p>For many (if not most) kids, Northwestern is MORE expensive than Yale. NU tuition & fees are ~$57,100 versus Yale at ~$55,300, plus for middle class families Yale is more generous than NU, yet 40% of the NU classes chooses it binding ED which means students chose it over any other school. The two people D knows in her field who chose Yale and Princeton last year over NU did so because it was much cheaper for them to attend Y/P than NU. Both wish they were at NU now. NU was much more expensive for our D than Yale.</p>

<p>As I say, in our D’s field NU has more prestige than Yale (for undergrads), so I also think at least some of your decision should depend on what academic interests you plan to pursue.</p>

<p>Why not wait until you visit NU to determine the feel you get of both campuses. Seems as if you are asking for opinions with an already made up mind on Yale. </p>

<p>Detach yourself from both schools until you have seen both then come back with your questions. </p>

<p>Good Luck!</p>

<p>To answer your question OP: Yes, if you like NU equally as much as Yale after your visit, you’re stupid to turn it down.</p>

<p>I visited Yale with my son (as well as Harvard and Princeton) and I think it would have been his next choice after NU. He applied early to NU so we never learned whether he would have been accepted at Yale.
Yale is definitely a great school, and we really liked the campus. Evanston, at least in my opinion, runs circles around New Haven as a college town. No comparison, again in MY opinion.
Only you know how much of a factor the money difference is. Also, depending on where you live, a degree from Yale may help more in getting your first job. After that I don’t think it matters much.
Academically, which is stronger in your fields of interest? That should be as important as name recognition.
Also, is there an issue for you in terms of where you would rank within the tennis team? If NU has a better team you may rank lower on the team but be on the better team. Not sure how that plays out.
Nice to have these choices though! Good luck!</p>

<p>My D (current NU soph) toured both H and Y and after the visits, she decided that these schools weren’t for her and she didn’t apply. So, in a very real sense she chose NU over either of those fine institutions.</p>

<p>Northwestern hands down for Women’s Tennis; if you are serious about this sport, then HYP shouldn’t even be a consideration.</p>

<p>There’s no definitive answer that anyone other than yourself can provide in this situation. As other posters have said, you should visit and ignore the prestige factor when you do, mainly asking yourself where you feel more comfortable. Just look around at the students and although you can’t judge an individual without having a conversation with them, if you see enough people you can get a pretty good idea of common personality traits and interests of kids at NU. Try to strike up a conversation with a few student when you’re here, and I’m sure most of them here would be happy to meet you and share their opinions–we do have that midwestern friendliness here. </p>

<p>That being said, there are many things you won’t be able to gauge from just visiting, so I’ll give you a couple of my observations during my time here. As somebody else mentioned, there is an unbelievable range of academic interests and therefore personalities on campus. Yale will have this as well, but at Northwestern people with less mainstream academic interests will be better represented. This has its pros and cons. On the plus side, since college is the perfect time to “find yourself” and explore your interests to mold yourself into the adult you want to be, at Northwestern you’ll be presented with all different types of people and scenes to involve yourself in. On the down side, once students find their group here, which usually happens during freshman year, they tend to stick together. NU gets this reputation for being cliquey; in reality, if you’re outgoing and you put yourself out there, you’ll be able to make friends after freshman year. It’s really a matter of people feeling satisfied with the group of people they meet in the early parts of college and not having the desire to look elsewhere for friends, so I definitely wouldn’t say it’s cliquey in the way that high school is cliquey. Athletes, for example, have a tendency to only hang out with athletes, which is understandable since they have similar interests. If you want to meet people outside of that circle, you can; just don’t expect people trying to befriend you after freshman year. I’m not sure if Yale is like this, but I think a lot of people would agree that Northwestern is. Just something to consider. In terms of social life, it’s the same kind of thing; you’ll have the option to do anything, whether it’s pretending you’re at a state school and going to bars and frats every night or discussing Sartre on a Friday night with a couple friends. Granted, I would say Northwestern kids have pretty eclectic interests so with a lot of people, you could find yourself doing both these things. </p>

<p>Another thing I want to point out that a lot of prospective students don’t fully acknowledge is that it gets REALLY ****ing cold here during the winter. Trust me. You’ll have to take into account how much the cold bothers you. If you’re looking for that iconic college brochure scene of students studying in the quad, you may only get it for 2 months of the school year. </p>

<p>Another thing: if you want to major in something more math/science oriented like econ, bio, engineering, etc, expect large lectures for the first two years. You’ll definitely have to make the effort to reach out to the professors if you want help. Usually they’re happy to help, but you have to take the initiative. For other fields, professors will seem more available and there to teach rather than do research. However, there are several selective programs within Northwestern that you apply for once you’re a student, and these programs are pretty much impossible to beat. For instance, there’s a Kellogg certificate program that allows you to use the resources of the Kellogg career center–can’t top that. But the difference between going to Northwestern and going to U of I isn’t really about what you’ll learn in class for these math/science fields; it’s more about the students you interact with and the standards they set in classes. Same thing with Northwestern v ivys–it’s not like Harvard econ professors will have special secrets that aren’t being told at Northwestern. It’s more about your interactions with the students when comparing schools of this caliber, and obviously, if you thing you’d get along better with them, you’ll be able to learn more from them. </p>

<p>I honestly don’t think prestige should be a factor in your decision, though. If you want to work in Chicago, for example, you’d actually probably be better off going to NU because of all the NU grads and connections in the city. Once you actually get to school, you don’t even think about what some magazine thinks about your school. Also, I wouldn’t base your judgments of a campus on architecture of the campus–the aesthetically pleasing things and the not-so-pleasing things just become “normal” very quickly. </p>

<p>I can’t say much about Yale, but the kids I know who go there are imho pretentious and are very focused on their futures, for better or worse. Northwestern students are definitely driven and get to work when they need to, but they also set aside time to pursue other interests and enjoy living in the moment, which probably makes them more interesting. But I only know a couple kids that go to Yale so it’s not really a fair generalization. One of my good friends always dreamed of going to Harvard, and he’s there now but complains about the social scene and the difficulty of making friends since people are SO focused on what they’ll be doing after they graduate. </p>

<p>Anyways, I realize I’ve been rambling, but this is one of the most important decisions of your life, so I figured I’d just get my opinion out there. Good luck!</p>

<p>It’s a personal choice. I would choose Harvard or Princeton over Northwestern but definitely not Dartmouth, Penn or Brown, no way. I like Columbia except for the core, which is a huge thing there. My immigrant parents did not want me to enroll at Yale when I was admitted there but they would have been fine with Harvard or Princeton.</p>

<p>wildcatalum, what was your parents’ hesitation about Yale?</p>

<p>As a tennis player on scholarship at a top program you will be expected to put a lot of time, energy and effort into tennis. Check with the coaches on what they expect from you with training and from a time standpoint. Go to the school where you will be happy.</p>

<p>You should also consider culture. For example stats show that NW is the #3 or #4 most popular school for freshmen of the Jewish faith. Also, that NW students are on average coming from extreme wealth. This is good in terms of networking, but you must decide whether the feel, culture, scene is right for you.</p>

<p>P.S. to an earlier poster. My D visited NW this past week. NW has no “merit aid” or schollys. You either have “need” or you are shelling out $250,000 or so.</p>

<p>I’m sorry to be picky, but the correct abbreviation is NU :stuck_out_tongue: That’s very true though, if you don’t have need then you’re paying a lot (However there are a lot of other scholarships that are independent of NU)</p>

<p>^There are actually SOME merit based scholarships, but they’re not common, not spoken of often, and usually have special stipulations (or are only partially merit based). </p>

<p>The most common example is the National Merit school sponsored scholarships, but there are others.</p>

<p>I guess I didn’t really consider them “true” merit scholarships just because they aren’t based solely on merit. I was just considering scholarships that are based only off scores, leadership, etc. with no special stipulations.</p>

<p>MitchKreyben - Where are your “facts” from? While there is a strong Jewish population I would question that it is “#3 or 4 most popular school for freshmen of the Jewish faith” and I would definitely question that the students are “on average coming from extreme wealth.” But yes, there is really no merit-based financial aid, it is all need based. And if you are comparing Ivy League schools to Northwestern (NU) from a financial standpoint then you will find “on average” far wealthier families at most of the Ivies.</p>

<p>But again, where did you find these “facts?”</p>

<p>Northwestern = 23%. Rank varies, I’ve seen anywhere from top 5 to top 20 for N.U. You can find various lists from various publications and institutions quite easily with a google search. [Private</a> Colleges with the Highest Percentage of Jewish Students | CollegeXpress](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/lists/list/private-colleges-with-the-highest-percentage-of-jewish-students/478/]Private”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/lists/list/private-colleges-with-the-highest-percentage-of-jewish-students/478/)</p>

<p>Also the reason to consider why kinds of scholly’s do exist (athletic, and need-based) versus those that generally don’t exist (merit) is that schools in this category largely cut out the upper middle class; that is the student base is either getting need based aid, or athletic scholarships, or they’re paying $260k for their college education. Nothing wrong with that other than that it eliminates most students who’s families are not qualifying for need based financial aid. In essense this creates a haves, and have-nots school population without much in the middle to upper middle. Hey it’s not Just Northwestern, so don’t get super defensive about it, it’s just the way it is at schools that use this financial model.</p>