<p>Alexandre: Raw numbers are just about the stupidest metric you could use. Clearly, what’s more important is percentage of student body.</p>
<p>The entire Harvard class might be smaller than the OOS students at Michigan, but clearly Harvard has greater (inter)national appeal.</p>
<p>kameron, I think you missed the point. When I make a statement, it is generally accurate and a propos. A school that has over 9,000 undergraduate students from out of state (paying on average $45,000/year) regardless of how large it is, has national appeal. Whether Michigan had 5,000 undergrads, 15,000 undergrads or 25,000 undergrads does not change its appeal. Nobody claimed that Michigan had as much appeal as Harvard, so why make the comparison. Do you honestly think that Brown or Columbia have as much appeal as Harvard? But to say that just because 35% of undergrads at Michigan come from out of state, the University does not have appeal is nonesensical. The school is clearly one of the most appealing in the nation, regardless of what the rankings suggest. </p>
<p>And raw numbers are as important as per/capita or percentage figures. One must always look at both in concert to benefit from the entire picture. You may think it meaningless that a university has 40,000 living alums in NYC or 15,000 living alums in the Bay area, but those raw numbers are very important. One may assume that a college or university with an endowment of $300,000 per student is more impressive than a college or university with an endowment of $150,000. However, if the former has a total endowment of $1billion and the latter has a total endowment of $5 billion, it is safe to say that the latter can do a lot more with its money. </p>
<p>Bottom line, Michigan has national appeal and raw numbers are as important and telling as percentages.</p>
<p>Northwestern is a fine school, and so are Georgetown, UMich, and Cal. None of them are Ivies, but they are all highly respectable. Why quibble over the difference between MacIntoshes and Macouns?</p>
<p>^ Agreed. While they might not have the prestige of an ivy, they are probably just as good academically.</p>
<p>“You may think it meaningless that a university has 40,000 living alums in NYC or 15,000 living alums in the Bay area, but those raw numbers are very important.”</p>
<p>I agree.</p>
<p>It know that it’s parochial to pay special attention to resumes from people who went to one of three universities I attended, or from people who grew up in the same part of the country as I did. But I do pay more attention to those resumes. I try not to give those factors extra weight when I’m giving my views of whom we should hire. But I can’t deny that it grabs my attention, and gives me something to talk about that increases the odds of making a personal connection.</p>
<p>Northwestern is not a great place for an undergraduate education in most fields, but people who’ve never attended think it is. It’s consistently in the USNWR Top 20.</p>
<p>Having gotten a degree there, I can tell you that as far as learning, it’s not much better than MIT’s free courses or reading a well-written essay on a subject by Malcolm Gladwell. There is absolutely no chance I would’ve spent my own money on it.</p>
<p>For graduate degrees it’s probably a better buy, since most PhD students get paid to attend, but even some of their programs are pretty dreadful at teaching. Mostly the students are really bright already and teach themselves what they need to do research on the side.</p>
<p>Knowbefore, when did you attend? What courses did you take? What was your major? You’ve thrown a lot of pretty harsh, general statements out there without any specifics. I know for certain you did not take the full breath of courses at NU, and I also know that your feelings are not even close to universal. I know its hard to remember that your opinions aren’t the iron law of god, but do try to refrain from generalizing your experiences into universalized statements.</p>
<p>Be suspicious when somebody shows up out of the blue and starts banging on one school. Likely the name should be ■■■■■. He also said he was working as a consultant with UChicago grads for $40,000/yr. Most consulting firms I know pay $50K plus. Especially if they are filled with NU/UC grads in Chicago (I assume).</p>
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<p>I’ve always found it amusing on CC to find east coast kids (and parents) who are so put-off by the hicks in the midwest who are so limited in scope that they wouldn’t even think about ever venturing away from the midwest, that they find the only sensible solution is to not venture away from the east coast.</p>
<p>Northwestern is probably underrated at #12 on the US News list. It is no doubt a superior school to Duke and probably Dartmouth at this point as well and no worse than the equal of Columbia and UChicago.</p>
<p>^^Dunno about that either way. But NU is on the way up.</p>
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<p>Uhh, most of the “elite” schools in the NE have a similar % of students from the NE.</p>
<p>UPenn, in particular, has a large % of students from PA and Stanford usually has around 40% of its incoming class being CA residents (I guess that makes Stanford even more of a “regional” school).</p>
<p>Yes, the whole concept of diversity is blown out of proportion. Very few universities have fewer than 40% of their students come from their respective regions. At Penn, 40% come from PA, NY and NJ. </p>
<p>At Duke, over 50% from from the DC-FL region. </p>
<p>30% of Columbia students come from NY (probably another 15% come from NJ and PA). </p>
<p>Almost 30% of Cornell students come from NY and another 30% come from New England and the Mid Atlantic. </p>
<p>At Stanford, over 40% come from CA and another 10% come from the remaining West Coast states and Southeast. </p>
<p>At Brown, 50% from New England and the Mid-Atlantic. </p>
<p>At Dartmouth, over 45% come from New England and the Mid-Atlantic.</p>
<p>[Facts</a> about Brown University: Undergraduate Admission](<a href=“http://www.brown.edu/web/about/facts/admission]Facts”>http://www.brown.edu/web/about/facts/admission)</p>
<p>[Penn</a> Admissions: Incoming Class Profile](<a href=“http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/profile/]Penn”>http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/profile/)</p>
<p>[Class</a> Profile](<a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/apply/generalinfo/profile.html]Class”>http://www.dartmouth.edu/apply/generalinfo/profile.html)</p>
<p><a href=“http://admissions.cornell.edu/downloads/enteringclassprofile.pdf[/url]”>http://admissions.cornell.edu/downloads/enteringclassprofile.pdf</a></p>
<p>why was this thread moved?</p>
<p>OP is right. There is a social cachet in saying you’ve attended Cornell/Brown that Northwestern doesn’t seem to have.</p>
<p>Depends where you live. Here in the midwest, Northwestern has much more cachet. Few people here even know that Cornell & Brown are Ivies.</p>
<p>Definitely a regional thing. I’m in the Bay Area (fifteen minutes from Cal…) and mentioning NU usually prompts a “…where’s that?” from people. Scholastically, it’s definitely up there with the Ivies, Duke, Rice, etc., but it doesn’t have quite the same name recognition. </p>
<p>I think it tends to be overlooked, at least among people I know, as almost everyone who applies out of state immediately aims for the east coast.</p>
<p>^I think it depends on what HS you go to also. Maybe your school don’t have a history of sending many kids. But Harvard Westlake, on the other hand, sent almost the same number of kids to Northwestern as to Berkeley in the past 5 years. I wouldn’t say Rice has more name recognition either.</p>
<p>Here’s the data: <a href=“http://www.hw.com/students/usdeans/College/Profile.pdf[/url]”>http://www.hw.com/students/usdeans/College/Profile.pdf</a></p>
<p>When I went to NU in 1980, no one here on Long Island was familiar with it. I wish I had a quarter for every time someone said, “Oh, in Boston?” And I would say, “No, that’s Northeastern; Northwestern is outside Chicago.” Other schools I applied to were Brandeis, Tufts, Emory. Generally, all the same category school then and now (give or take a little).</p>
<p>Since then, NU is hugely more popular here in NY, surprising to me because of its sports teams! Rose Bowl and other bowls since 1996 and then the women’s lax, which is big here. As a result of the sports success (ha!), people are realizing what a great academic school it is also. When I go to our HS (my daughter goes to the same one I went to), there are a lot of kids in their purple NU attire. And several are awaiting their acceptances right now.</p>
<p>NOW… when I tell someone that I went to Northwestern, they are impressed! (That’s not why I went though). There is a TON of name recognition and appreciation for its academics.</p>
<p>I studied communications there and would do it again in a minute, and I didn’t even take advantage of all there was to offer. I went to my 25th reunion in the fall and was impressed by how much my fellow classmates had accomplished (acknowledging that those who are not doing well may not go to a reunion).</p>
<p>While there were many there from the midwest, even back in the early 80’s there were a lot of students from other parts of the country. At the reunion, there were people who had stayed in the Chicago area, but many had gone to either coast.</p>
<p>I am thrilled to see the recognition that NU is getting now and I think it is well-deserved.</p>