Not an Ivy, but still important. To me. --> Bard, Skidmore, Sarah Lawrence?

College Search & Selection
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<p>So first some background, eh?</p>

<p>
[quote]

**Stats<a href="only%20because%20they%20seem%20to%20be%20a%20big%20thing%20at%20CC">/i</a>*
[ul][li]GPA (UW) 3.76[/li][li]SAT I 2050[/li][li]SAT II Bio E 770 / Chinese 580 / Lit 630[/li][li]Class rank Top five students[/li][li]Predicted IB score 36+/42[/ul]</p>[/li]
<p>Student
[ul][li]Gender XX[/li][li]Location China[/li][li]Nationality Finnish[/li][li]High school type International, private, first graduating class[/li][li]Classes Full IB Diploma: HL; Eng, Econ, Art. SL; Math, Bio, Chinese.[/li][li]Class size 42[/li][li]ECs International Thespian Society, newspaper editor, rock climbing, acting, various service clubs, NHS[/ul]</p>[/li]
<p>Colleges(applied to 5)
[ul][li]Rejected Amherst[/li][li]Accepted Bard, Hampshire, Sarah Lawrence, Skidmore[/li][li]Request FinAid No[/ul]</p>[/li]
<p>College Preferences
[ul][li]Size <5000 students[/li][li]Location Rural / small city / urban[/li][li]Importance of cost Secondary[/li][li]Characteristics Artsy, liberal, creative, keen on learning, independent[/li][li]Study abroad Yes, please![/li][li]Class interaction Discussion based[/li][li]Social Not big on kegs, heavy drugs, smashed nightlife. Midnight cabarets, music is more my thing.[/ul]</p>[/li]
<p>Personal
[ul][li]Studies of interest [/li]Theater/acting/performance, visual arts, writing, environmental/conservation biology, philosophy, international studies, fashion, film</p>

<p>[<em>]My dream gap year would include
[list][</em>]tagging penguins in Antarctica
[<em>]researching grassland biodiversity in the Masai Mara
[</em>]making performance art in Bordeaux
[<em>]designing macropatterns for Marimekko as an overseas freelancer in Morocco
[</em>]studying art history in Venice
[<em>]interning at Nat Geo magazine
[</em>]living with Tibetan monks at Shangri-La
[<em>]selling handpicked cloud berries in the farmer's market in Oulu
[</em>]making an independent film[/ul][/list]

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So, yes. That's that. And it comes down to:</p>

<p>Bard vs Sarah Lawrence vs Skidmore ... vs Hampshire, my safety. But my main focus is on the first three.</p>

<p>Bard:
I've read a lot of good things about Bard. My teachers seem to think it's great.</p>

<p>My concerns?
- The quality of housing is a bit luck of the draw, the buildings are a mixed bag.
- Limited environment. Should I be shacked up with a bunch of art kids for four years?
- Isolated. I spend every summer in Middle-of-nowhere, Finland in the nature and I really love it. But that's just the warm summer, not the whole year.
- Lack of social scene. Red hook is the nearby town, which is supposedly quaint.</p>

<p>Sarah Lawrence:
Again, good things I have indeed heard. But! Again there are so many mixed opinions about this place, from absolute revulsion to love.</p>

<p>My concerns?
- The housing is supposedly crap.
- Kids leave campus frequently for nearby NY.
- Townies hate the SLCers.
- Large female population. Not that it's absolutely awful. But that's what my high school has been like, and by god, a little more testosterone would be nice.
- "You muck about, get a major for Nothing, get no grades." Will I be respected when it's my turn to apply somewhere as a graduate?</p>

<p>Skidmore:
Artsy again. Called one of the new Ivies. My counselor has some mysterious bias for me choosing it.</p>

<p>My concerns?
- More institutional, less cutting edge, more conservative perhaps?
- Not as flaming liberal as my other choices.
- Doesn't strike me as "special" just yet. I applied on a whim.</p>

<p>General Concerns for All Three Colleges:
[ul]
[<em>] I want to go somewhere where there is no cut throat competition among students, but where everyone is internally motivated.
[</em>] As an international, I crave diversity, international "awareness" at my school.
[<em>] I want a close-knit community, where I'll have a place.
[</em>] A relationship between teachers and students is integral.
[li] It's going to be darn cold![/li][/ul]</p>

<p>Perhaps the worst thing that keeps nagging at me is
I made the wrong choice. These schools aren't prestigious enough. Aren't recognized.
and that
I could do better, given a second go at admissions. My stats might get me into "better" schools.</p>

<p>Those are awful thoughts that from an objective standpoint I would completely refute, but yet I can't help myself, especially here on CC, where it seems like every other person is into HYPS, or Ivies, or some really renown school. Hah, peer pressure.</p>

<p>So, please, I do need your help!
Even if you don't know anything specific about these colleges, giving me some perspective on these concerns would be greatly appreciated. :(</p>

2

<p>Some great choices among three schools that are considered “alternative” schools with Skidmore being, as you say, much more mainstream.</p>

<p>You seem to have a very good handle on these schools. </p>

<p>I think that Sarah Lawrence is both a more confining and perhaps close knit group than the others. I think your experiences would be somewhat more diverse at the others and the facilities better at most. There will certainly be more guys about at the others. The surrounding town really doesn’t offer very much but you are very close to New York City. I don’t know very much about it but I have never had the feeling that it sucessfully made the transition from a small female school to a coed institution.</p>

<p>Skidmore is much more “mainstream”, though still with an arts focus, than the other three schools you mention. I think they are the outlier in this group by a large margin in terms of the individuality, or quest for it at least, of its students. I have only driven by the campus but it looks very nice and the town, which I did visit, is very nice. This would be the most traditional college experiece out of these four.</p>

<p>As an aside, Hampshire is in a great area with other colleges nearby but places a premium on independent study and their facililties are not very good compared to the others schools. I think you are correct to look at the others unless you really like the area and working on your own.</p>

<p>Bard is a very spread out campus for the number of students there and is in a rural area. The students are probably similar to Sarah Lawrence in being very New York City focused and are less “mainstream” than Skidmore. The facilities are, as you say, a mixed bag. While the students are arty not all are into the arts as a career so there is a bit of a mix there.</p>

<p>You have given yourself some fine choices within the less mainstream of colleges. I would not get hung up on prestige.</p>

<p>Have or can you vist these schools before choosing?</p>

3

<p>I was very impressed with Bard. With the new sciences building the school is initiating an innovative, cross-disciplinary approach to the ‘arts&science’ curriculum that promises to be exciting. You seem to be better ‘suited’ to Bard, in my opinion, than Skidmore, which I also visited.</p>

4

<p>All I know is that some kids I know who sound like kids you would really like are now going to Bard. Into music, theater, dance. And I’ve always thought of Frank Gehry, who designed the new music building at Bard, as an incarnation of Alvar Aalto.</p>

5

<p>Skidmore is actually in the woods too, but it does have a very nice town, Saratoga, just a short walk away.</p>

<p>All I can say is that if my kids had this choice I think they would choose Bard. </p>

<p>Sarah Lawrence is great if you are working on some really important project – art or science related. You have a very personal relationship with your teachers.</p>

<p>I thought the physical plant at Sarah Lawrence was very rundown, but it does have easy proximity to NYC.</p>

<p>Bard is the most intellectually stretching IMO. All students must write a thesis.</p>

6

<p>Bard is actually a big party school(for a LAC) and there’s A TON of weed there.
Actually you and I have almost the same stats(I got 2040, 3.8) and didn’t get into bard. This year was a really tough year for admissions so you shouldn’t worry about not getting into a good enough school. Plenty of people with same credentials as you got turned down by those schools. A lac is prior the best fit for you vs. A big university. Don’t go into school with a chip on your shoulder or regrests about the admissions process, because everyone has regrets. Go to the best fit and really enjoy the experiance.</p>

7

<p>Sarah Lawrence (my alma mater) is terrific. Small, compact campus, one can walk to commuter train for short ride to NYC for research (Public Library, MOMA etc) and of course, for fun. Drama department is excellent, as is writing/English department and sciences. One takes only three courses per semester and does independent study in each, really adds depth to the experience. Because of the low student/faculty ratio, there is plenty of opportunity for dialogue in the classroom. Also, the proximity to NYC is a draw for visiting professors The dorms; well, some are definitely better than others. As for graduate school respect; SLC is very well known & highly regarded. Off the top of my head; I knew people who went on to Harvard, Columbia & U of Iowa’s Writers Workshop.</p>

<p>Bard; toured Bard a couple of years ago. Very interesting place. Intriguing Frank Gehry building, they also have a wonderful college president. The small population and the isolation of the school could be a concern.</p>

8

<p>Thank you so much! I’m really feeling the stress of this college selection right about now.</p>

<p>@ ctParent2006
[ul]
[li]SLC - I’m definitely worried about the, hm, excuse the colloquialism, “bang for my buck” factor as far as resources/facilities are concerned. From what I’ve heard, some of the facilities and the dorms are rundown.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Skidmore - They are for sure the outlier, you’re right. Although I have an urge to go somewhere flaming artsy, I remember that I’ve loved my high school community even though it wasn’t peculiarly artsy at all.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Hampshire - I completely agree, I love the “idea” of Hampshire, but I’m not sure I’m so keen on living it.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Bard - I think that’s what I like most about Bard. It’s artsy as a whole, but there are still people who are very focused on other things. My main concern is that isolated rural location, I’m worried I’ll go stir crazy.[/li][/ul]</p>

<p>**And, no, I have not and cannot visit any of these schools<a href=“because%20I’m%20all%20the%20way%20in%20China%20and%20my%20IB%20exams%20are%20coming%20up%20so%20I%20have%20to%20spend%20the%20next%20few%20weeks%20in%20perpetual%20study%20mode”>/B</a>. Really unfortunate. But I’ve taken good advice and I’ve just emailed students at Bard, SLC, and Skidmore to get their opinions and ask questions about their respective schools. I’ve already gotten back some great responses, so I think that’ll definitely help me choose.</p>

<p>Wow, all right, so two people think I most resemble a Bardian. That sounds great! And I’ve seen photos of Gehry’s building at Bard, it’s absolutely beautiful… and Aalto-esque definitely. Gotta love Aalto, Finn pride. :)</p>

<p>The proximity of Saratoga Springs to Skidmore is a draw for me to go there. Unlike Bard, which is super rural, unlike SLC, which doesn’t really have a great town around it, Skidmore has a reputedly wonderful town that all the students are enthusiastic about. The student that emailed me back about Skidmore raved about the great food, the good nightlife in Saratoga, and Saratoga in general. Apparently parties are not as big of a thing than at other schools, that there are a lot of other things to do besides partying, and the whole environment is really relaxed. That sounds lovely. I’m not a huge party animal myself.</p>

<p>I guess that’s a pretty big concern right there. I like Bard a lot, but its location is less than ideal. And if partying + weed is a really huge thing there, I’m not sure it would be a nice island to be isolated on. Commuting to NY apparently is an expensive endeavor.</p>

<p>And thanks for the comforting thoughts, I guess I’m just intimidated by all this talk of big names, 2400s, etc.</p>

<p>I think in the basics of it, it comes down to these problems:</p>

<p>Bard

  • intellectually stretching; thesis
  • individualism, emphasis on artistic connections, connections between separate studies
  • more varied student body than perhaps SLC
  • study abroad language immersion programs sound great, especially Venice
  • physical isolation, prevalence of drug use? / huge parties</p>

<p>SLC

  • dialogue between students and teachers
  • small classes, independent study
  • proximity to NY
  • study abroad London Theatre program, et al, look great
  • relative inferiority of dorms and facilities, girls > guys</p>

<p>Skidmore

  • the study abroad program looks wonderful, it would allow me to do things like this: [Tanzania:</a> Wildlife Ecology and Conservation (TZE)](<a href=“Home - World Learning”>Home - World Learning)
  • Saratoga Springs
  • relaxed atmosphere, good food, good dorms
  • relatively mainstream, perhaps not as individualistic</p>

<p>Being the spoiled international brat I am, I’ve been very, very lucky to have gone to a brand new, super resource-stocked international school with shiny facilities, so I think facilities are pretty important to me.</p>

<p>**Does anyone have any other inputs or advice? Because I’m really torn. </p>

<p>Oh and if you know anything specific about the theater, art, biology, writing, philosophy, film sectors/facilities/professors at each college, I’d love to hear it.**</p>

<p>Thank you so, so much for the help! Couldn’t do it alone.</p>

9

<p>I think your list of +/-'s is very good. </p>

<p>I would not place too much stock in the pot reputation of any of these schools. Not that students at Bard or other schools don’t, I am sure, do their very best to keep up their schools good “name” in this area. Bard’s parties are generally smaller than at larger schools. My understanding is that the choice between alcohol or pot is likely a matter of convenience at most US colleges these days.</p>

<p>You have not mentioned if you have ever lived in the US. I would point out what you may already know that US laws prohibit drinking until age 21 so the drinking is an illicit activity for most college students. While many college students may have already tried alcohol before college being away from their parents at college is their first time having more freedom to drink and many over-indulge at least at first. Most colleges turn a blind eye to drinking and less so to drug use unless it is flaunted.</p>

<p>You should certainly contact as many students at these schools as you can. One thing to explore is the number of International students and how they like the environment.</p>

<p>As a very broad generalization I think you will find more of an intellectual interest in academics at Sarah Lawrence and Bard than at Skidmore. Like all the comments about schools I would point out that you can almost always find like minded people to hang out with at any of these colleges and this comment does not mean that Skidmore students don’t study hard at all.</p>

<p>Another factor you have not mentioned is size. I took this data from the Princeton Review site but I think you will find similar data in many places. Some food for thought in it. A larger school will automatically have more of everything though you have to share with more people.</p>

<p>Sarah Lawrence
1306 Students 74% Female 2% International<br>
Average GPA of Freshmen = 3.7
(This stat is suspect at all colleges as grades are not standardized across High Schools, not all applicants submit this information, and it is self-reported by the colleges. Nevertheless I think it can give you some rough guidance on the level of academic achievement of your possible peers.)</p>

<p>Bard
1667 Students 56% female 9% International
Average GPA = 3.5</p>

<p>Skidmore
2727 Students 62% Female 1% International
Average GPA = 3.3</p>

10

<p>To OP; see featured discussion; “What to do when you can’t visit the college you’ve been admitted to?”</p>

11

<p>OP: You said that proximity to NYC is a pro for SLC. Are you sure about that? My understanding is that that proximity means that there’s much less of an on-campus social scene, and, hence, less community. While that proximity might be nice, are you sure that you’re willing to give up the feeling of community?</p>

<p>If the answer to my last question is “No”, I would take SLC off your list.</p>

<p>Do you have a Facebook? If so, I’d suggest looking at the “groups” for accepted students at these schools (probably “-insert name of college here- Class of 2012!”) and talking to those students about how and why they picked their schools.</p>

<p>Skidmore sounds best to me for you, though. I’m not quite sure why, but I think it has to do with the fact that you want an artsy but not obsessively-artsy student body, the campus and town are simply beautiful (I stay there for a few weeks every summer), and you get the perks of having a nice-sized city at your disposal but unlike SLC, there is still a lot of social life on-campus.</p>

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<p>@ ctParent2006
I do imagine drug use would be prevalent at any school I choose to go to. And yes, I have lived in the states: I lived in a big city in Iowa for 8 years before I moved here to China for high school. Here of course drinking <21 is legal, as is in my native Finland, and I’ve never had that wild urge to get insanely drunk, mostly because my parents have been very forward about it. Not too worried about that, alcohol isn’t half as good as its cracked up to be. Just having a university rampaging with keggers isn’t my idea of fun. So I chose these.</p>

<p>Purely looking at those stats it would seem that Bard strikes a happy medium in size, gender balance, and it has the highest percentage of internationals. Calculated out that percentage means roughly 38 internationals per year. SLC would have roughly 12 per year, Skidmore roughly 7.</p>

<p>So far it’s Bard in the lead for me. Looks like if I go to Bard I’ll have to cross my fingers for a good housing draw.</p>

<p>@ jg0339
Yes, I’ve read that thread. Very helpful.</p>

<p>@ teenage_cliche
Yes, I think it’s a pro. I’m living in Shanghai at the moment and I love big cities and going to NY would be great. I don’t think it necessarily sacrifices the close-knitted-ness of the school, but I do agree that it disintegrates the on-campus scene. Plus, some of my friends are going to NYU next year so I’d definitely like to see them.</p>

<p>About the contacting-current-students-on-Facebook, this I have done already. It’s been very helpful.</p>

<p>You’re right about Saratoga Springs. It’s a huge draw, sounds like a lovely place.</p>

<p>But I’m not deciding hastily. This is the next four years.
Looks like it’s between Bard and Skidmore now, really.</p>

13

<p>Perhaps you’ve decided by now, but my daughter and I just toured Bard, Hampshire and Skidmore last week, so I’ll add my thoughts. I’d say Skidmore is a preppier atmosphere (that’s what my kid disliked), but what a lovely place. It’s lavishly built and maintained, the food service is spectacular, the proximity to town is great (it’s walkable), the place seemed to be brimming with activities. Bard is a nice campus, but the admissions officer who addressed us was so pretentious I nearly burst out laughing–they seem to be very impressed with themselves there. The food was dreadful at the cafe we were told was the best spot on campus. My son’s friend just graduated from Bard and adored it–a lot of the students seem to develop very strong feelings for Bard and Botstein. The adjacent towns are pretty grim. Hampshire is not as selective as Bard (and reputation-wise, it’s not taken as seriously as Bard) and has a more utilitarian, spartan campus, but Amherst is a better location unless you like the isolation of Bard. The admissions officer at Hampshire was laid back to the point of catatonia. Having to take classes at the other consortium schools has as many minuses as pluses, it seems to me. My daughter thought the Hampshire atmosphere felt just like that at her performing arts summer camp–lots of pleasant, quirky people trying hard to seem even quirkier. At both Bard and Hampshire, you have to be a very self-motivated, self-directed person to get anything out of your four years; I suspect that if you’re not, you probably would be evaluated poorly at Bard or be encouraged to leave, while at Hampshire you could just smoke weed and sleep for 4 years and no one would care. Hampshire has a very low retention rate, which I find troubling. Don’t feel too bad about not having visited the schools–so much of impact of a visit depends on silly stuff like the personality of the tour guide, the weather that day, or the marketing skills of the admissions staff; it can be as misleading as it can be helpful. Hope this helped a bit. Best of luck</p>

14

<p>I just have to put my two cents in here, as I hear my school getting bashed. There is a low retention rate at Hampshire in part because people come with the mistaken idea that “at Hampshire you could just smoke weed and sleep for 4 years and no one would care.” When people try that, they don’t make it through. I agree with those above that said Hampshire can be difficult, navigating the consortium, living up to the “idea” but there is no way one can sleep through four years and graduate. That said, it is not for everyone, only the very self motivated. For the original poster, I think Bard sounds great for you. My problem with it was that it was just too isolated, and not as close to NYC as it seemed in terms of ease of getting there. But it is beautiful and seemed great academically.</p>

15

<p>“We” are also deciding between Bard and Sarah Lawrence (waitlisted at Skidmore) and have many of the same concerns. My S is a writer and musician. We have gone over the pros and cons for 4 weeks now without resolution.</p>

<p>Just wondering what you decided…best of luck to you</p>

16

<p>I noted on another thread that the OP decided to attend Bard.</p>