My question for OP and other posters is this: does applying for ED significantly hurt the fin aid you will get?
As others have noted on this thread, colleges know there are plenty of families making 100k to 200k per year, who cannot pay 50K to 60K a year for each child’s college. So, yes, colleges will factor that into the RD round, but they also do not want their ED acceptances to back out because of a lack of money, even though this is absolutely allowed. So wouldn’t the fin/merit aid packages for RD and ED be similar?
I am more certain that applicants may get accepted with lower SAT/ACTs and GPAs, for yield, and to have students who really want to be there.
I also expect that I am wrong, and posters with more experience will weigh in!
@homerdog She is a senior currently so she will graduate in 2017. We keep going back and forth between trying to push her to consider ED and thinking that waiting for potential merit money would be great. She attends a top DC area private school and her college counselor told me she is a very strong ED candidate but that RD was a real toss up. I have explained this to her so we will see what happens. We are visiting Grinnell in two weeks, maybe she will love it and decide in ED!
@PetulaClark I’m not sure if applying ED helps or hurts with aid. In our case, it would only make sense to apply ED to schools that are a reach and those schools give no merit…so we know we would be full pay. It’s not just our income that puts need aid out of reach, it’s our savings. So, I suppose if S19 found a school that was his absolute favorite with no question about it and we decided as a family it was worth full pay, then just maybe we would apply ED if it was a school with a much higher acceptance rate for ED.
Ideally, though, we would see ALL offers and do visits closer to the time he has to decide. There are a few EA schools on his list and we will definitely take advantage of that - Dickinson and Colorado College.
@LMC9902 I hope DD loves Grinnell. High on my list but our S19 has never heard of it. :))
@homerdog Your case may be similar to ours, as it’s not income but inheritance that puts us into the full-pay category. We are applying ED for D17, as she has a clear favorite, a bit of a reach, and will do EA for her clear second, more of a match. As the EA school tends to give a lot of merit, we will probably check yes for fin aid. For the ED school, with the app due on November 15, we still have not decided what to put, though even if full-pay, we will not back out. A big financial hit, but oh well…
But I have to think that many of the super rich kids (parents with ten of millions) tend to go to the well-known universities, private an public. But there are not many of these families. Even with the best LACs, I’d GUESS that a huge majority of students come from families making less than 200K a year, and so money is a big issue. (One major exception I know is Washington and Lee).
@MurphyBrown It’s possible that we would get some sort of need-based aid once we have two kids in school. We could see a little bit once D21 is in school if both kids are at private schools. Even though that money isn’t in our retirement accounts, we still consider all of those assets as school/retirement money and would rather use it for retirement money.
In general, we just believe that the price of college is ridiculous and, even if you have the money, it may not be worth $250,000. The reason we have such savings is that we live well below our means so, to pay full ticket to college, just doesn’t sit well with us. We buy used cars, live in a smaller house than most of our neighbors, and our kids (gasp!) carry around used iPhones that are cracked. (They still work so they are stuck with them until they make enough of their own money to buy new ones.)
That being said, it’s a lot to consider. Maybe there are schools that will be perfect for many reasons and we will be willing to pay. Don’t know yet. Not sure if we will ever know for sure but, at some point, will have to decide. If we were to spend $250,000 on anything, it would be education so it’s not out of the realm of possibilities. Just hard to come up with a strategy.
@PetulaClark It’s so helpful to hear your plan. Thank you!
@homerdog I totally agree that the cost of college has gotten out of control! We don’t have a lot of savings for college (maybe $50K) because we’ve paid for a DC area private school all along. It has been the right choice for DD but we are definitely interested in getting some tuition relief if possible. All of our tuition money will come from operating cash (salary/bonus) which makes it tempting to see if DD gets money from somewhere.
Do most people think it’s worth paying full price for a top 15 SLAC vs getting a $20-25K scholarship on a school ranked around 50? I change my mind every day. DH and I are alums of a top 20 SLAC and it has served us well but maybe we would have done just as well coming from a lower ranked school.
@MurphyBrown Thanks for the heads up about the FA forums. I’ll check them out. I think I ran one NPC on the Carleton College site with two kids and we did get a bit of aid. Any little bit could help sway us, I’m sure. When I mentioned to my husband that the schools with no merit may only be full pay for the first two years for S19 and last two years for D21, he felt a little better. Those two years that they overlap probably won’t be double the tuition for us.
@LMC9902 My husband and I graduated from undergrad at a top 15 school and it has served us well in many ways. I’m sure I scored interviews easier because of the school name (especially early on in my career) and we met life-long friends that now live all over the world. It served us both well to meet such a range of people when we were young - different socio-economic backgrounds, different religions, different geographic hometowns - especially since we grew up in the boring suburbs. We still have these friends who grew up on farms, in NYC, in liberal CA, and in conservative KY. I would put this experience at the top of a list of things I want in a college for our kids.
@homerdog my husband and I did too, we met at a NESCAC school in the 80’s and I think that’s why I am having a hard time holding out for merit money at a lower ranked school. I’ve had many interviews begin with perspective employers praising my alma mater, as recently as this past year.
So my daughter has decided that she would really like to apply to Oberlin ED1. While I’m excited about her decision because I think it’s a great choice for her in many ways I am stressed about the cost and our inability to see what merit she may get. On the other hand, Oberlin RD is very competitive, especially for girls because they get a LOT more girls applying. Her counselor says that she has a really good shot if she goes ED but not great if RD.
We can make it work with sacrifice but it would have been nice to find a cheaper option. Thoughts? Should we tell her no? I would hate to do that and then have her not get in.
@LMC9902 you might want to start a new thread about this, but FWIW, last year my D was accepted off the WL at Oberlin and was offered merit aid to boot. My point being that if your child has high stats, she will porbably get merit if accepted. Oberlin’s accpetance rate is over 30%, so while it isn’t a safety for anyone, if her stats are good,she probably has a good shot RD, and will probably be offered merit.
@Lindagaf thanks. She has strong stats but I’m not sure if they are tippy top. Her ACT composite is 31 but she has a 36 in English and a 35 in Reading (Math/Science pull her down). She is half Asian, which at some schools is a minus but it might help her at Oberlin given the percentages. She goes to a top private school that is known for rigor and that sends girls to many top schools. Her grades are strong 89 average in mix of AP/Honors but not perfect. Would you share your DD’s stats?
@LMC9902 Do you have Naviance at your school? It was really helpful for us to see the GPA/scores of kids from our high school broken out between ED and RD. Only in a few cases, were the GPA/scores lower for the ED than for the RD and it’s quite possible that’s because recruited athletes go ED and their scores are in the average. I tend to agree with @Lindagaf on this one. I think the ED acceptance rate is skewed because of self-selection (kids with high stats that match the school well apply ED) and because of the athletes.
I was really worried about not applying somewhere ED but, after looking at how it breaks out on Naviance, I’m convinced that it doesn’t matter as much as I thought.
@homerdog we do have Naviance and I have looked at it. The challenge is that she goes to a smaller school and Oberlin isn’t a top choice because a lot of girls apply to Ivys and larger schools or ones on the coasts. Nobody has applied ED in the past five years but the lowest stat of an RD is close to her. Not sure the story of that applicant but I’m going to try and get more info from her counselor.
I think your D would get accepted to Oberlin - so why do ED? If you do ED, they probably won’t give you merit- but if you do RD or EA (if they have it) you have a better chance of merit and a very good chance of getting in.
@Hellofagal thanks for that link - I had no idea you could check on merit possibility early!
@suzyQ7 I’m concerned she may not get in RD and it has become her top choice by far. I hear you on the possibility of risking merit though and it makes this whole thing frustrating! Given their low RD admit rate and the fact that her composite score is in about the 50% according to their common data set, I am not sure she is a clear RD admit. I wish our Navince had more data points but smaller schools just don’t!
We are in a similar boat. We were disheartened by the proportion of ED admits, 35% to 50% of the total class at some of the schools. I still think visiting shows interest and letting them know that you will not be applying anywhere ED “for financial reasons” is fine, even if you expect to be full pay. For us, it has meant that kids are likely picking only one or two competitive schools to apply to (their highest interest) and the rest state schools. We all will have to be happy with them placed in a state school given that we are choosing not to lock in on $70k per year per kid based on a teenagers fall preferences. That is our current thinking on how to approach the applications given our price sensitivity and unease for ED philosophically.
@homerdog We were in a similar boat with D16. She did not apply ED. She wasn’t set on any one school—she liked all the schools on her list (except her financial safety, which was unfortunate)–and we (parents) agonized over her applying ED and being bound to spend $250K for a 4-yr education.
D applied RD everywhere, no EA anywhere. High stats but got waitlisted at a long long of full-pay top LACs including her top choice, but got into her match LAC with good merit plus a couple full-pay reach-matches. We sent her off to the accepted student days on her own and to revisit her original top-choice. She decided against getting off the waitlist there as she felt more ‘love’ for the schools that accepted her. She liked all the schools she got into, and ended up accepting the one where she got good merit and is having a great time there doing all the things she’d planned. She loves her school, but as a parent, I wish she’d had a few more match LACs with merit on her application list. Some of her friends were choosing between 3-4 schools that were very affordable (good merit or WUE schools they really liked). I don’t think it would have changed things had she gotten the same offer where she did, but it was a risky list to only have one school that would give good merit.
I agonized a lot about prestige during D16’s senior year. I must have worn a trough in our bedroom from pacing at night. What made it harder was not being able to talk about it. If someone else is paying full-freight, then you talking about agonizing over that is like dropping a lead balloon. If someone else is not full-pay, then there is the awkwardness of revealing that you are. We live in an small house, 10+ year old cars, thrift store instead of Macy’s types etc, so you’d never guess. Our kids are in private school, so that seemed to add another layer of awkwardness. ‘So you paid for private school instead of public and now you don’t want to cough up a ‘prestigious’ college?’. I put ‘prestigious’ in quotes since some of the ‘prestigious’ schools were tiny NE schools I’d never heard of (before CC) and I thought it was insane to think our instate flagship was less ‘prestigious’. Oh, and I could NOT talk with my two closest friends who live in New England during that senior year. Both felt that prestige of the school is very important, essential, and that D must do everything possible to get into a ‘prestigious’ school and MUST definitely get off the waitlist on her tippy-top schools. ‘She need to show them she bleeds their school colors’. Sigh.
@liska21 your story is very helpful. I’ve already been thinking about how many match LACs our S19 should have on his list. You are correct in saying that it would be nice for him to still have multiple schools to choose from.
I also worry about how much interest to show. I still find it hard to believe that, if a student has a strong application, visits the schools, does an interview if offered, and writes a good “why x school” essay, they would be wait listed just because they go RD instead of ED. I think I may talk to our guidance counselor and possibly a private coach to see what they’ve seen historically from our area to get more insight
@liska21@homerdog Thanks to both (and others) for keeping this thread going. The whole application process puts parents in a bind. Because you can do all the right things that homerdog listed, but because you can do those for multiple schools, how can you ‘prove’ these schools really are your top picks? I wish the common app revealed exactly how many schools (not specific schools) you applied to. It might help schools to know your kid had applied to 3 rather than 10.
The clearest way to show a school is your top pick is ED, but you have only 1 or 2 shots, and are at a disadvantage on fin aid. I like that liska’s D said good-bye to schools that waitlisted her and went to one that really wanted her. Sometimes I get down on the whole process of applying, as17 and 18 year-olds are having to make such a tough decision, and have great grades and and have parents willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars, but the schools can say, no, sorry, no room for you.
Having said that, we are going ED1 with D17, and would be nearly full-pay. It was her clear first choice. She has an EA for second choice, a good match, and she is nearly as excited as going there if ED doesn’t pan out. Both OOS private schools, 2500 miles away. She has a couple of safeties as well she can apply to in January, as I tell her nothing is certain in this admissions game.
I agree with liska that the college financial process is isolating. D17 and D19 are at private HS, but went to publics before that. So we parents do not know the families at private school, which is in another county. Virtually everybody we know is only considering public schools, many with higher incomes. I get the feeling they think we are foolish. And our D13 is at a public land-grant 30 minutes away and loves it, but that is not the best fit for our other 2. So we decided to use a large part of our savings (not retirement!) for private HS and college, for fit and the chance for our other girls to go to college in a different part of the country, to schools most folks in NC have never heard of unless they read through a college guide. And I am still wondering if it will be worth it financially.