@PetulaClark I think I’m just as excited as your family is to find out what happens with your D17! And I hear you about local families thinking you are a little crazy. No one here has heard of some of the schools I think S19 may apply to. Even my husband last night was talking up UIUC to me, saying that it’s ranked number 41 in the country and he listed some programs that are in the top 5. I had to remind him that our S19 would never be interested in mechanical engineering or accounting!
I didn’t read every single post, so sorry if this is a repeat.
@homerdog I believe you are overthinking this (not to admonish you because I am often guilty of same). For instance, Carleton doesn’t even consider demonstrated interest (CDS item C7; however they do consider interviews). All colleges are well aware of the many reasons students do not apply ED. Your son’s interest in a college should show plainly in his “Why College X” essay. He can also show interest by doing an interview, attending open house events, getting on the mail/email list, and applying EA where available, not to mention visiting if feasible.
There is no way around the fact that the profusion of ED has had a negative impact on non-ED applicants. You’re doing great to look for ways to maximize the chances of a good outcome, but mostly it is an art not a science. For instance, Carleton offers waiver of application fee for students who do a pre-app in August. Even though they say they don’t consider interest, this is a small easy thing to do that can only look good on an application. No downside except being on the ball in August. (Who knows if this will still be the case in 2018, just an example).
@alooknac Thanks for the info on the Carleton app! I know. I’m sure I’m overthinking it. I’ve read so many posts on CC saying that their kids got wait listed at all of their RD schools. Maybe I should just stay off of CC and just do what we as a family need to do!
Definitely take cc with a grain of salt. It’s actually a fairly small, skewed community with lots of anecdotal evidence.
Rather than worrying about generalities/averages/the kid next door/etc., I would encourage you to find schools that would love to have a kid like your S (*see my note below). Then throw in a couple of safeties, maybe a couple of shoot for the moon. The bulk should be schools where after studying the stats and available info, it appears your S has maybe a 50-50 chance of admission or merit or “insert your goal here.”
And of course, go over the financials with your son and set clear limits. Don’t let him apply to schools that do not offer merit unless in the end you’d be willing to pay full freight for that particular school.
FWIW here’s our anecdotal results :
State flagship safety – applied very early though no official EA – accepted (was really nice having this in hand in the fall of senior year)
2 LAC’s EA – accepted at both
6 other LAC’s RD – 1 admit, 3 denies, 2 waitlists (which D declined)
D received completely unexpected merit awards of $16k, $24k, and $27K from the 3 LAC’s that accepted her, no special applications or anything.
*NOTE: “schools that would love to have a kid like yours” does not have to mean schools with stats way below S’s. It can mean that a college is seeking more music majors, trying to increase diversity, or is looking for qualities that your son just happens to have. Explore college mission statements, look at what they’re saying in press releases and other stuff you can find by googling but may not be front and center on their homepage, although most/many colleges do have a section about the type of student they are looking for.
@liska21 I really appreciate your insight here and that of everyone else! I’m going through the exact same things right now for DD!. She has been in private school for years and has a sister who is as well but we are barely full pay and will be the same in college. She has an incredibly strong background and will do well at any college so I’m glad we’ve been able to give her that gift, but it does make saving for college hard.
Sadly I heard back from Oberlin today and they don’t see her as a candidate for merit aid in ED1 so I told DD we may rethink things. She does really want to go ED and loves Oberlin but I’m not sure we want to pay full boat. She really likes all of her other choices and is the type of kid who would be happy at many places so we may take our chances with RD. She is also a double legacy at another top LAC and likely to be accepted there (great NESCAC school in Maine) so I may urge her to wait and see if Oberlin takes her RD with money. I saw on their RD thread from last year that they even offered merit money to people they took off the wait list so it’s frustrating to me that they wouldn’t offer something for a strong candidate who is willing to commit now (and who is a URM).
Anyhow, we are not sure what we will do but need to decide within the next two weeks.
@LMC9902 How did Oberlin tell you that DD wouldn’t be good candidate for merit? Interesting that they would tell someone that upfront!
@homerdog they have a link on their website and you just fill out some forms about your stats - transcript, scores, intended major, race etc. They don’t ask for anything else however like volunteer work, jobs, special talents or awards, which can be significant. They review the submission and give you an early read of potential merit (they also do the same for financial aid) so you know before you decide to apply ED.
Without that tool we would have applied blindly to ED and hoped for the best but now that we have been told that our daughter isn’t a merit candidate it does give us pause because she’s likely to get merit at several other schools that are not much further down the US News list from Oberlin as well as a higher ranked NESCAC school (our alma mater) that doesn’t offer merit. Like I said above, I find the whole merit thing confusing given that several people from the RD list got in off the wait list and were awarded merit money so I’m guessing they offer it to increase yield and don’t feel compelled to do that as much with a student applying ED.
@LMC9902 Ah! I knew they had a calculator. It sounded like you may have actually talked to someone at the school, but I guess not. I misunderstood. It must mostly be based on scores then. What are the schools where she may get merit that are close in the rankings? I’m guessing Grinnell, Kenyon…
This is more based on not having any safeties if they got waitlisted or rejected everywhere.
@homerdog we got an email from the admissions office saying that they reviewed her information and determined that she is not a candidate for merit money.
She might be a merit candidate at Kenyon or Grinnell but it’s hard to say. She liked both, just not as much as Oberlin. There are a few others that she also likes (Dickinson, Denison, Bucknell) and would be a strong RD/aid candidate.
So we need to debate this with DD and decide…
@ucbalumnus Yes. Agreed. I guess those kids didn’t have absolute safeties. But, I also know it’s because colleges are worried about their yields now. Certain schools are known for having much lower RD rates and that’s because they can find enough kids in their ED round who are great students who will commit. The same student in the RD round may not be admitted since he may have other choices and hasn’t shown commitment through ED.
So, our son may LOVE a school and it would be his absolute first choice and he may be in the top 10% of kids in the RD round and still may not get in if the school isn’t somehow convinced that he will accept. I know kids with very strong stats (all As, 35 ACT) who were turned down at schools where the average accepted ACT is a 31. The only thing that makes any sense is that the schools thought they would go somewhere else.
True. Or their essays or recommendations were sub-par.
@Endora Yep. I’m hoping that’s true…and we will make sure our son pays plenty of attention to the schools that track interest for sure!
@LMC9902 I would not extrapolate just yet from your early read at Oberlin. I imagine that the merit bar is set higher in the ED round; it may be lower for RD. I would encourage your child to apply RD and see what happens. You may be pleasantly surprised, come March.
Last year, I was looking at outcomes here on CC and there was no logical way to analyze them. Why does one kid get substantial merit from Kenyon but is waitlisted at Grinnell? Gets money from Mac but not Oberlin? Holistic review is just that - something about your child’s file may resonate with one admissions committee but not another to push it into merit scholarship contention.
That said, I think that applying to a range of schools is prudent. Right now, Oberlin also is my D’s top choice. But admissions are unpredictable. She has also applied to Wooster, St. Olaf and Dickinson, where her stats put her at a higher % point. She has found much to admire at those schools as well and if she ends up at one of them, she is confident that she will have a good experience. The state flagship and a regional financial safety are also in the mix, just to keep all options open.
Good luck!
@mamaedefamilia thanks for your thoughts. My daughter also liked Dickinson and it’s closer to home. She would also be a very strong merit candidate there but it’s definitely not as a great a fit for her personality as Oberlin! She didn’t like Wooster, which is too bad because I liked it and they are really pushing her to apply.
Yesterday I asked her to think hard about how much of a first choice Oberlin might be and let me know. If she’s willing to roll the dice and wait, we will. If it’s that important to her we will allow her to apply. To be honest we may choose Oberlin with no merit in the end if she gets in RD but I’m not sure it’s a decision I’m willing to support yet!
Good luck to all of us trying to decide these things!
“Or their essays or recommendations were sub-par.”
Just my two cents’ worth, but is this last point realistic or is it just a kind of urban myth?? If a kid has straight A’s in school and has the combination of brains and/or work ethic to get a 35 ACT score, how often is this kid going to get a sub-par recommendation from a guidance counsellor? Wouldn’t the vast majority of GC’s be shouting this kid’s praises from the rooftops, particularly since one often hears about counsellors generally overpraising other smart (but not tippy-top) students?
I also don’t agree that these kids are likely to send in sub-par essays either if they are truly interested in a school. I tend to agree more with @homerdog in that these kids get rejected due to three reasons. As she pointed out, 1) some of these kids show no interest in a school that they should be showing love to (e.g, the suburban Chicago kid who won’t visit Northwestern or WUSTL 2) and schools will reject kids who they think will end up going to a higher tier school (and are using them as a safety). In addition, 3) many top schools can only take in so many smart kids from Bergen County, Westchester, Montgomery Cty (MD) and north suburban Chicago.
If the kid had discipline issues I can see getting a less than stellar GC rec. It’s not the norm but it does happen.
Um, it happens. Kids who are arrogant, not nice to the counselor, bullies, grinds with no personality. The LOR may not be terrible, but it can be bland. AOs know how to read between the lines.
Also, I was asked to assist a high-scoring, High-GPA student with his essay. It was terrible. He really did not know how to write well or how to present his ideas. I tried to inspire him to improve it and provided guidance. He made it better, but it still wasn’t very good. He got rejected outright from Tulane.