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Colleges and Universities A-Z Middlebury College
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Gellino, OK, we get it, you hate Midd (we just don't understand why yet - Bowdoin is really THAT jealous of Midd?)

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<p>I don't hate Midd at all, although don't like their past surreptitious approach to reporting class profiles. To me, both Colgate and Middlebury are appropriate back-up schools to Dartmouth depending on where your priorities lie.</p>

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He's a Colgate alum, and sometimes I think he gets upset that Midd has taken off in the rankings and is considered slightly more prestigious and selective than his alma mater.

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<p>I wouldn't be upset if it was considered "slightly more prestigious" (Brody rankings probably have it about right where Midd is #33 and 'Gate is #35), but the implied difference of #5 vs #17 is a much wider than "slightly more prestigious" and an unwarranted spread to me. On the national universities scale, this would be the difference between something like Stanford and Emory and don't think the difference between Colgate and Middlebury is as great as that between Stanford and Emory.</p>

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I'm still struggling to understand the relevance of the Feb Admission comment. Feb admits are no less qualified than September admits. They're just starting at a different time. So there's as much point to splitting Feb and Sept admits as there is in splitting green-eyed and blue-eyed admits.

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<p>My point is it's doubtful very many of the ED candidates to Midd desire the Feb option, so it's more likely the lion's share of the 14% of the class that are Feb froshs come from the RD pool. Therefore, of those starting in Sept, those who applied ED is probably a fair amount higher than 43%. I don't know if Midd has published the difference in stat breakdowns in Sept and Feb student profiles (given their past stealth, it's unlikely), but it certainly stands to reason that those enrolling in Sept (the more desirable starting time) would have higher stats. Colgate is the only other school I know of with Feb froshs (albeit on a much smaller scale) and it was definitely accepted that these matriculants had lesser stats and was widely debated whether it was better to better Feb froshed or wait-listed.</p>

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I wouldn't be upset if it was considered "slightly more prestigious" (Brody rankings probably have it about right where Midd is #33 and 'Gate is #35), but the implied difference of #5 vs #17 is a much wider than "slightly more prestigious" and an unwarranted spread to me. On the national universities scale, this would be the difference between something like Stanford and Emory and don't think the difference between Colgate and Middlebury is as great as that between Stanford and Emory.

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<p>Well take a look at the U.S. News rankings and you can see the areas where Midd beats out Colgate. How does Colgate's peer assessment score compare to Midd's? What are the other factors that influenece the rankings gap? The lowest that Colgate has ever been in U.S. News is 15. Midd has been in the top 10 nearly every year for the past decade.</p>

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<p>Going to interject:</p>

<p>Rankings are inevitable, I suppose. But I think it'd be kind of ridiculous to choose Midd over Colgate or vice versa based on dubious rankings.</p>

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What are the other factors that influenece the rankings gap?

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<p>I feel much of it is financial resources based, which (to me as a student) is overblown after a certain minimal threshold level that both of these schools surpass.</p>

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<p>Gellino, first off, I think your assumption that Middlebury is a backup to Dartmouth is off base. PR considers it more difficult to gain admission to Midd than to Dartmouth (albeit, only slightly). Dartmouth may get more applicants and may be better known, but Middlebury's applicant pool is largely self-selecting so there are fewer students who apply on a whim, thus competition among applicants is higher. </p>

<p>I'm not familiar with the Feb admission program at Colgate (which, btw, I think is a great school), but at Midd they ask students whether they'd like to be part of the Feb program. There is no qualitative difference between Feb and Regular admits. In fact, Febs are often class leaders because they tend to be more outgoing. I'm not sure where it is, but I know there's a thread on Febs at Midd and it explains a lot of this. Because Midd's international study program is so large, there are a ton of Febs, having any qualitative difference between the two types of admits would completely disrupt the program.</p>

<p>Lastly, the idea that there are possibly 32 academic institutions in the US that are better than Middlebury is absolutely absurd. I struggled to list generously 32 possible schools, but simply couldn't do it. That may explain why no one has heard of the Brody Ranking.</p>

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<p>While I would never call Middlebury a "back-up" school for Dartmouth, I do think that Dartmouth is more selective (based on most quantifiable measures). That being said, I do know several people who were accepted to Dart and WL or rejected from Midd. Both schools are among the most selective in the nation, and with the flood of applications the past few years, admissions can be a total crapshoot.</p>

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Gellino, first off, I think your assumption that Middlebury is a backup to Dartmouth is off base. PR considers it more difficult to gain admission to Midd than to Dartmouth (albeit, only slightly).

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<p>I don't think very many people believe Middlebury is more selective than Dartmouth and certainly doesn't jive with Dartmouth having a 100 point higher M + CR SAT avg and a much lower acceptance rate than Middlebury. I think PR's quantitative rankings are generally considered a joke. I had a friend from Middlebury with one of those shirts that are sold around campus titled 'Late Night at Midd, top 10 lies on campus' where #1 was "I chose Middlebury over Dartmouth and Williams." So, I think it's hard to argue when it's a running joke permeating the school.</p>

<p>I would agree that I don't think there are 32 schools better than Middlebury or 34 schools better than Colgate, although would say a lot of people have heard of the Brody rankings and generally find them pretty accurate. Part of what is incorporated into their rankings is general name recognition so schools I would never go to before Middlebury or Colgate like UMichigan, Notre Dame, USC, UCLA, UNC do come in higher, so that needs to be taken account. however, smaller schools aren't completely hurt as Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore are all in their top 15 and Pomona, Bowdoin, Wesleyan are all ~ #20-25.</p>

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<p>I will agree that dartmouth came first in this house until rejected. But Midd doesn't make the list because of Rankings and S would be really happy to go to any of the 7-8 schools he's applying to. Granted, some slightly more than others, but none of his personal ranking system had anything to do with any published ranking, USNWR, Fortune or Brody. And I honestly think that's the way it really should be for the students.</p>

<p>He has a mix of schools that are the size of Dartmouth and others that have a similar rural feel. All have excellent programs in what he wants to study. And each one has a special appeal. After getting rejected his consolation was his hope that he'd have a couple to choose from and that would be kind of fun. I mean he has Johns Hopkins on there as well, which is not exactly Midd. But there is something he really loves at each one.</p>

<p>However, when I read about all these complicated strategies of EDII and see deferrals and rejections (and soon to be wait lists in a few months) of seemingly really "crazy smart" kids, I admit to getting very nervous. But I do think some of these ranking rise and fall based on Alumni support as a catalyst. Endowments increase, higher ranking,. One feeds the other which then increases name recognition. Of course, the more often you have your professors quoted in the press on intelligent matters, I think that really increases notoriety. Dartmouth, and other small universities, benefit in opinion because of their graduate schools and the research opportunities that go with that. </p>

<p>Point being: Both Dartmouth and Middlebury are fabulous schools, as is Colgate etc etc etc. but the ranking of anyone else means very little when the student's opinion is what counts the most. Personally, I think a student will be really really happy if he/she gets into at least two of their PERSONAL top five. In the end, students who get to make a choice are more likely to stay at whatever school and then... again, the school's ranking improves due to retention of freshman students. </p>

<p>As our college counseling office LOVES to say: It's not a prize to be won, but a match to be made. And their number one on a list of advice to parents is:</p>

<p>"Disregard rumors about college admission and be very, very cautious of all rankings."</p>

<p>I am trying.. but it is really really hard to do. As a parent, sedatives seem a reasonable option. :0</p>

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<p>Gellino, "a much lower acceptance rate"? According to Middlebury their acceptance rate was 18.5%, according to Dartmouth their acceptance rate was 18.3%. I'm not sure what they told you at Colgate, but I have to disagree that a 0.2% lower rate qualifies as "much lower". Additionally, the shirt which you referred to is at least 15 years old. As Arcadia mentioned, a lot has changed in 15 years (remember? that's when Bush Senior was ending his presidency). </p>

<p>I'm not trying to argue the merit of ranking. I think it's silly. I do however believe that among the top ten schools there's basically no difference in quality of education. I honestly believe that fit is the most important thing. I've studied at a NESCAC LAC, a large Pac-10 University, and an Ivy League institution. Far and away the best of those schools was the NESCAC LAC, followed by the Pac-10 University. Fit is ultimately more important than reputation. The fact is that you can get a great education at most schools in America. The student will get out of his education what he puts into it. That's the most important thing for applying students to remember.</p>

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Gellino, "a much lower acceptance rate"? According to Middlebury their acceptance rate was 18.5%, according to Dartmouth their acceptance rate was 18.3%.

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<p>Actually, Dartmouth's acceptance rate for the Class of 2012 was 13.2 percent.</p>

<p>Dartmouth</a> - About Dartmouth - Facts</p>

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<p>Ooops, my mistake. I accidentally clicked on the wrong link. My apologies.</p>

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<p>Back to the name of this thread: While an incoming freshman class is a fairly set fixed number, the school has to consider yield in admissions. So.. they offer admissions to quite a few more students than they technically have spaces for. Somewhat like overbooking on a airline. What is tricky (and why there are waitlists) is to know how large of a yield you will have. In other words, they're not only accepting 400 more students. Therefore I think the sincerity of your application matters a great deal. It is not always easy to be genuine and I think Adcoms are pretty astute in that way especially.</p>