I think the tutorial system is the most distinctive thing that sets Williams apart from Amherst. Do you like the idea of working 2-on-1 with a professor for some of your classes? Or are you good with the more traditional LAC small-classes model? If the tutorial concept doesn’t sway you then I’d err on the side of more diversity and consortium resources at Amherst, but if you like the even-more-individualized approach, then Williams is unique in that.
I was pretty sure that around half of kids don’t take a tutorial class and that they are really demanding. If a tutorial was offered in something that really interests me (probably is one) I would try it. I don’t think that the diversity factor is that much greater, unless the consortium is counted. Apparently, there is already more diversity in both schools than in my hs which seems fine. I don’t want to be met with extreme arrogance, but I should probably expect at least some of it at both W and A.
Snowleopard, call the admssions office and tell them you love to get some feedback form a student. I am sure they have students who are happy to talk to incoming freshmen. Or maybe create a new post in college search and selection and just call it Amherst v Williams. Maybe some new blood will help you decide.
I have no direct experience with either and just going by what I’ve heard through the grapevine, my opinion isn’t worth that much. Both schools are going to have rich prep school kids, tbh. Wil you know who they are? I don’t think so. I am sure both schools have really great kids who are there because they really want to be there and not just because they are prestigious. If you are leaning towards Williams, don’t ignore that. Maybe you know more about Williams because you want to know more about Williams.
Amherst thesis writers have a year of one on one professor work…
Prestige often correlates to incredible resources. Funding for research, internships, etc. Great financial aid. Great professors and small classes. “some regional LAC that still had small classes and a close knit atmosphere” wouldn’t have a lot of those things. But I’d still choose it over SB, depending on the LAC.
Yeah, it’s probably a good idea to get some more info. At this point, I wouldn’t want my heart rate to go up by talking on the phone (not exaggerating) and have to make a decision…
You still have time snowleopard. Take deep breaths, and you will be amazed at the relief you feel when you decide. Choose and don’t second guess yourself though! Post a new thread in search and selection, and I promise I won’t make any comments on it.
These threads, while 8 years old, may help a little in terms of a possible advantage for Amherst when compared to Williams - a discussion where someone asked how rural Amherst and another where the same person asked how rural Williams was.
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/amherst-college/1003925-how-rural-is-amherst.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/williams-college/1003924-how-rural-is-williams.html#latest
Edit: or this could be an advantage for Williams, if you prefer a more rural environment.
Yes… 12% difference in the percentage of non-white students… which puts Williams on the majority-white side of the 50% mark, and Amherst on the majority-non-white side… but not such a tremendous difference that it should be the deciding factor unless it’s super important to you.
You can also compare on the economic diversity side of things. Again, a difference but not an earth-shattering one.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/williams-college
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/amherst-college
The one other thing I would say is… transportation.
There is an Amtrak train that runs direct between Penn Station and Northampton (en route to Vermont).
And there is a Peter Pan bus that runs direct between the NY Port Authority bus terminal and Williamstown.
The train to Northampton is slightly faster but is more expensive and only runs once a day.
The bus to Williamstown is a little cheaper and runs twice a day.
Not sure if you have a preference but maybe good to know what your access to home without a car would look like.
Also, see if there are any helpful answers for you in this thread from last year:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/amherst-college/1974666-ask-questions-about-amherst-here-p1.html
Since you’re thinking about possibly majoring in neuroscience, take a look at both schools’ list of courses in that concentration/major:
https://neuroscience.williams.edu/courses/
https://neuroscience.williams.edu/the-program/
https://www.amherst.edu/academiclife/departments/neuroscience/courses?display=curriculum
https://www.amherst.edu/academiclife/departments/neuroscience/about
Do either appeal to you more?
Are there other majors you’re considering, where you could look at the course list?
As others have mentioned, the open curriculum is another difference between the schools. Do you like the idea of no distribution requirements or core curriculum?
https://www.amherst.edu/academiclife/open-curriculum
“Amherst has no distribution requirements and no core curriculum. Instead, students choose the courses that matter most to them. Our open curriculum ensures that each classroom is filled with inquisitive, fully engaged students committed to the topic at hand. Amherst offers more than 850 courses (explore our Course Catalog), and the Five College Consortium offers thousands more. How do students choose among all those options? Our accomplished, approachable faculty are committed to serving as advisers and mentors during the course selection process…
Students are not in it alone. Faculty advisers offer close guidance as students shape their own education. The open curriculum also allows professors to quickly adapt courses to new developments in their fields, and to the evolving interests of students. The result: well-rounded students who work extensively within their majors, while also exploring the many other courses that spark their curiosities.”
Williams does not have a core curriculum or specific required courses. It has these requirements: “While there are no required courses at Williams, all students take at least three in arts and humanities, three in social sciences, and three in science and mathematics. All students also take at least two writing-intensive courses and one course to improve their ability to reason mathematically and abstractly. And while Williams has no formal language requirement, we do require that all students explore diversity by taking at least one course that examines how groups, cultures, and societies interact with, and challenge, one another.”
https://www.williams.edu/academics/areas-of-study/
At Amherst I would be able to have neuroscience as major (I couldn’t understand what it means by program major), while at Williams it’s only a concentration (basically a minor?). Wanting to do neuroscience is a recent thing and it may change. I do want to try and double major if its possible… I’m still not sure. The distribution requirements at Williams would cover classes that I already intend to take, so the open curriculum doesn’t really affect me.
A lot of people say that Williams being rural is fine since they are always busy. I do want to get engaged in a few on-campus activities too and that may give me an excuse.
I really appreciate that you took the time to find all these links, thanks
concentration= major
You are very welcome!
One more - Amherst has a page with “Some Typical Neuroscience Schedules,” to give you an idea of what four years studying that could look like.
It notes: “The course selections for the first three semesters in example (1) below are appropriate not only for prospective Neuroscience majors, but also for students who may wish to major in Biology, Chemistry, or Biochemistry & Biophysics, and also for students planning to complete premedical requirements while majoring in a non-science subject. Thus you can keep your options open for all of these possibilities by starting with Math 111 and Chemistry 151 or 155 in the first semester of the freshman year, and following schedule (1) during the next two semesters.”
https://www.amherst.edu/academiclife/departments/neuroscience/major/requiredcourses/schedules
I don’t think concentration=major here.
At Brown, for example, a concentration is the word they use for a major.
Williams seems to use concentration for some things and major for others, and I don’t know what the difference is. See: https://www.williams.edu/academics/areas-of-study/
Edit: A concentration is apparently an interdisciplinary minor at Williams.
“On their way to a bachelor of arts degree, Williams students major in a core area of study (like Chinese or environmental policy). Instead of academic minors, we have concentrations, which are groupings of courses around certain topics that pull from many departments and disciplines (like cognitive science, which has elements of psychology, computer science, philosophy, math, and more).”
Peter Pan also has a route from Amherst Center to the Port Authority in NY.
If none of the academic differences tip you in either direction, (i.e. requirements, specific course offerings, opportunities, etc.) consider the environments. Which campus did you like better? Dorms, food? Where would rather be, on a self-contained campus out in nature, where students will primarily socialize on campus or on various types of outings together, or on a campus embedded between nature and a small college town with easy, free bus access to other colleges, a mall, and a small city? While the Amherst campus also has many activities going on,
it’s easier for people to venture off campus. Which environment would suit you best?
One difference that hasn’t been mentioned is that Williams has a Winter Study requirement that Amherst does not.
It is a little confusing to me… if I concentrate in neuroscience, would I have a degree in bio or psych or have to major in something separately. Different websites explain this differently and Williams’ website doesn’t explain it well.
Transport is not that much of a factor and my parents are telling me that driving is fine, but it doesn’t seem too realistic to me. A train station is very accessible from where I live. I didn’t get to see dorms/food at Amherst, only Williams with nothing to compare with besides my own room and meals. Going outdoors often would be fun and I don’t shop too often right now and probably won’t later. Williams’ winter study has some cool internships and pre med opportunities, so I would rather take them.
I can see that I’m practically trying to not let any option go at this point. But I’ll try my best to do it in a few hours. I guess the last thing to be cleared up is the meaning of concentration at Williams, although I want to double major anyways. Im pretty stupid for not asking that earlier
Since you asked, I would suggest 5 reasons why Amherst may be a better fit for you.
First, Amherst is more diverse, both racially and economically. In both areas, it is the most diverse elite college in the nation. Some schools equal it on one measure or the other, but no school matches it overall.
Second, Amherst is less isolated. There is simply much more to do in and around the large college town that it shares with UMass. Not just restaurants, and bookstores, but also the practical stuff. A short bus ride away are all the conveniences that you need like a Walmart or a 8 screen cineplex. Williamstown is equally quaint, but much much smaller and very isolated, especially in the winter. It is easier to get home from Amherst.
Third, Amherst is extremely good for neuroscience. It had the first neuro program in the country, and it is a speciality that Amherst prides itself upon.
Fourth, Amherst has the 5 college consortium - which would allow you to pick a class now and then that would supplement your other choices.
Fifth, the new science center that is about to open at Amherst is spectacular. No small college has anything like it.
https://www.amherst.edu/amherst-story/today/future/greenway-campus/science-center
Williams has its advantages too. The tutorials is the most obvious one, but it also has a really lovely main library, the nicest I have ever seen. Williams also would be a great choice.
Finally, let me put your mind at rest about practical things. In many ways, these two schools are two sides of the same coin, which is why they have the best small school rivalry in the country. Neither school is better academically. Neither school is better for getting you into med school (they both are amazing for that). They will have equal amounts of on-campus activities, and equal amounts of internships, and similar overall atmospheres, and so on. The dorms are a little nicer at Amherst, the dorm food is a little better at Williams, for whatever that is worth.
You are going to be very happy at either one. I recommend Amherst for you after reading everything you have written, but I also think Williams would be great for you.
Genevieve18, in post 113, above, explained a concentration well, quoting from Williams College’s own website.
So you would major in something else, like biology or psychology or whatever, and do a concentration in neuroscience.
Here is an explanation of a contract major, which also outlines alternatives such as a major plus a concentration:
https://registrar.williams.edu/contract-major
In your case, since neuroscience is an official concentration and not something novel that you are creating, you would not be able to major in it as a contract major. You would major in something else and do a neuroscience concentration.
Here is a description of the neuroscience concentration at Williams:
https://neuroscience.williams.edu/
You can also look at the links under “more information” on the right on the neuroscience page.
Snowleopard, at this point, you can just trust your gut. Go wherever you feel most “at home.” And if it is Stony Brook, don’t let any of us here at CC talk you out of it. You can get a good education at any of your three final choices, and you can find friends and be part of a community at any of them, too. It is up to you.
Play this game:
Imagine picking Stony Brook, not Williams. How do you feel?
Imagine picking Williams, not Stony Brook. How do you feel?
Keep the one that was harder to say goodbye to.
Now compare that one to Amherst in the same manner.
Now matriculate at the one that came out on top!
Also: don’t get hung up on major/double major / concentration etc. That really only matters in college- and you won’t even declare for at least a year, maybe 2. For grad school and for life what matters is that you have the course work that prepares you for the next step. As both schools have a pretty flexible approach to curriculum, it’s really not a useful metric for differentiating between them.
Newbie parent to CC here but have to say that I’m so impressed with the wealth of information and support that is shared in these threads, and this one in particular. Nice!