<p>Actually, Math Mom, I am a former foreign service officer and most of us are INTJ’s on the Myers-Briggs, with an emphasis on the introversion part. Introverts tend to be the ones who read tons of biographies and histories and really understand the countries they are in. They tend to be good at studying languages and mastering arcane grammatical stuff. (We just have trouble making eye contact and actually TALKING to anyone once we master the language!). It’s possible to be an introvert and still be an excellent analyst, a fantastic writer, an awesome planner, etc. </p>
<p>You’re off-base if you think that being a diplomat is all about glad-handing and working a crowd. That might be what you see on TV, but the State Department needs logisticians, people to evaluate grants, and people who specialize in purchasing real estate in the countries where the US government works. And quite frankly, the person who’s somewhat quiet at the cocktail party, standing off in the counter listening – She’s usually the one who picks up the best intell! People who spend all their time talking are often somewhat weaker on the listening side of the house.</p>
<p>And the above analysis is an example of what you can learn from taking stock of your rejections and failures. You can learn that you did not at all understand what was required for the goal you sought (eg. it wasn’t about being outgoing like you thought, or you simply don’t have the stats for elite school admission), you can discover shortcomings you had that you were not aware of previously, or you may realize there are factors at play that have nothing to do with you or for which there is little recourse (the coach’s nephew plays your position). In one case you may change course completely as a result, in another you may embark on a self-improvement plan, and in another you may opt to merely switch venues.</p>
<p>“Seems low. Wouldn’t acceptance at a school with even, say, a 25% or 30% acceptance rate be a bonus (assuming high standards and a surfeit of qualified applicants)?” </p>
<p>Good point. I’ve just read a lot of posts lately related to the tippy top schools and unrealistic expectations.</p>
<p>I have watched my S work so hard in HS in everything that he does…frankly, I’m in awe of him as I am sure that so many of you are with your high-achieving children. I could never have accomplished as much as he has without losing it…these kids run at such a high level of speed. If the school does not choose them…it is their loss. I can’t tell you how many kids have gotten rejected from top schools and those schools would want them desperately if they could see how much they have accomplished. It is an inexact science…I just keep repeating that it will all work out for my S and I’m sure for your kids, too!</p>
<p>Hi lookingforward! Just to add a comment about your statement about Terence Tao:
</p>
<p>Terence Tao is an extraordinary mathematical genius–of the once in a generation, or at least once in a decade variety. In my opinion, if his essay consisted of the statement, “Um, I think I would like to come to your school,” that would actually be sufficient to “knock his app out of the park,” combined with a few factual list items.</p>
<p>Addendum: Sorry, the italics that should have been there on “app” were not reproduced when I did the quotation.</p>
<p>Momzie, I don’t by any means think that being a diplomat is all about glad handing - I was countering the person who lamenting that Georgetown SFS had admitted an intorvert - the horror!</p>
<p>That said, I was the child of a diplomat and am also married to the child of a diplomat - so I am pretty familiar with the wide variety of diplomatic types. I don’t need a lecture from you. There’s a wide variety sure- but a lot of extroverts, or at least people who had to learn to act like ones.</p>
<p>Being an introvert is not at all the same thing as being extremely socially awkward, which is what I said the admit was. I have a D who is on the autistic spectrum, and this girl had less social ability than she does. So I don’t think it’s surprising that a group of KIDS would deem that individual unsuitable for foreign service. </p>
<p>We are talking about people’s feelings, which aren’t always aren’t mature or logical.</p>
<p>Actually, I’m starting to think that we probably know about as much about other people’s college applications as we probably know about other people’s marriages. Something can look great on the outside but you may have no idea what actually goes on in that home, and I think that probably when we think about who got in and who didn’t we might assume we have all the facts about a kid but we might not. </p>
<p>We were joking the other night about the fact that my daughter is really involved in extracurriculars but none of them are through her school. She does a lot of really interesting stuff (synchronized swimming, volunteering in a therapeutic horseback riding program with autistic people) but refuses to discuss any of these activities with her peers or her teachers because she’s afraid she will be perceived as ‘dorky’. Another acquaintance of ours has actually travelled internationally with Girl Scouts, but is what GSUSA refers to as a ‘stealth girl scout’ – She would never publically call attention to the fact that she’s a Girl Scout because she thinks she’s too cool for that. </p>
<p>I can see the conversations next year when people speculate about how the two girls who “never did anything” did so well in college admissions. It might be that the quiet girl or guy who doesn’t participate in school activities has written a novel, invented something, etc. Often, I think, still waters run deep.</p>
<p>I think it’s worth noting that colleges see applications, which are quite different from knowing the applicant in real life. I think it’s probably quite common for colleges to accept people who look better on paper than they really are, and to reject people who don’t look as good on paper as they really are. But it’s kind of taboo to say this on CC, especially if you have an example. You will be told by some that there may be things about the applicant that you don’t know, and by others that you shouldn’t care about other people in the first place. Personally, I plan to continue judging others based on the information I have available to me, and even sharing those judgments in idle conversation, as long as it doesn’t affect the people we’re talking about.</p>
<p>Right. . And part of that is recognizing that the people who make up your kids’ high school class aren’t “meaningful” to them in any way except for the fact that their parents all happened to live within the same geographic area, so worrying about and / or tracking what they go do after high school really is a supreme waste of time. I mean, your kids went off to 2 of the very tippy top schools in this country. By virtue of that, they are going to inhabit a far, far bigger world than their high school. Let them inhabit it (which I am sure they are doing beautifully in) and why look back?</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, being nosy about other people is a hobby for many of us, and as such it’s no more a waste of time than, say, stamp collecting. I’m curious about how kids turn out who went to school with my kids–even if I have no real emotional investment in them at all. And this fits in nicely with my other hobby, pontificating here on CC about college admissions and the like.</p>
<p>who look better on paper than they really are Works lots of ways. Gotta remember, many kids only evaluate themselves in the context of their own hs and peer group, how their friends and families find them so deserving, how that small set of teachers responds. While that’s nice, in life (you want your peeps to appreciate you,) that’s small world. Can’t rest on those laurels. </p>
<p>QM, thought of you when I wrote that. Of course, I don’t believe Tao could have written anything. In general, a “savvy” approach to app writing does include the sense to get some good advice. Personally, I feel that especially applies to STEM kids, whose work often requires collaborative skills, the wits to seek another opinion, and the willingness.</p>
<p>Neighbors’ son denied admission to a selective enrollment private high school, forcing him to attend local suburban public high school. His chatty parents view themselves as “super-smart high-fliers”, huge ego blow, very upset (son’s scores 15 points below cut-off), challenged decision, etc. Parents now assertively “packaging” son, w/specific elite university (not HYP) in mind, where they’ve strong clout due to business and personal connections. Son’s doing “elite” extra-curriculars and world-travel to burnish his resume. His grades still “B+ range”, no smarter than before. But I’ve no doubt this boy will attend that elite university.</p>
<p>Higgins- I’d take that bet. Unless the parent is a United States senator (and unless you are using the term elite university very loosely), or unless there’s a nanotechnology lab in the works, “connections” don’t get a kid into college anymore.</p>
<p>I know of an Ambassador whose kid did not get into her first choice university. And she was a legacy! So apparently there are really no guarantees . . .</p>
<p>Thanks, Hunt! Neither nosiness nor emotional energy is required to learn college and career information about your children’s classmates. Just this week at the gym I ran into the parents of a high school friend of my son’s, whose younger brother was a classmate of my daughter’s. They greeted me, and naturally asked what my kids were doing and I reciprocated. So now I know their colleges and grad schools. I wasn’t dying to know and probably could have googled the info. had I been dying to know, but found out with no energy exerted.</p>
<p>In addition, while we don’t and can’t know everything about other people, the way tracking works in our school district, by senior year the top kids will have had classes with the same cohort of students for as many as 7 years. So when Sam can’t meet to work on the history group project on Saturday because he’ll be away on a Boy Scout camp event, now it is known that Sam is a scout. (By the way, are we supposed to be impressed with the stealth girl who is very involved as a Girl Scout but is too embarrassed about the organization to ever let others know?) Since peer editing in class is a popular technique, kids learn that Samita can write very well. And after being in various clubs with Sally over the years, the kids discover she never pulls her own weight. And so on. No nosiness or energy needed.</p>