No, if anything we did the opposite. If kid grumbled, I’d point out there was probably something in the application that appealed to the committee. We’d talk about outside the school activities, or thinking about which teachers would say something nice about you. (I think my younger son’s recommendations were probably much more compelling that older son’s even though he wasn’t as good a student overall.) </p>
<p>All that said, neither kid talked a lot about it. Mostly just during the weeks acceptances came in.</p>
<p>We dealt with this briefly. D applied to 2 schools that were very selective. She was a strong enough student to have been successful at either school but one waitlisted her and one denied her admission. She was disappointed and felt bad for a day or so. It actually helped that some of her peer classmates also got denied admission to some top schools and ironically that some got accepted to highly selective schools. She realized that she belonged to a peer group where anyone could possibly belong in a highly selective university so it took some of the personal rejection away. She ended up attending a school that was either her 1st or 2nd choice depending on her mood (it was always mom and dad’s favorite).</p>
<p>I don’t think Blossom is being ridiculous at all. In fact, I think she’s spot-on.</p>
<p>I am (or was) very interested in parsing out the holistic system to figure out how to maximize MY kids’ chances of getting into places that they want to, suit their needs and desires, etc. I’m not interested in parsing out the holistic system to “explain” the results of random kids that I don’t care about at all. And frankly - “don’t care about at all” explains about 480 of the 500 kids. For the remaining 18, I don’t have enough knowledge about them to be able to ascertain whether their acceptances were “deserved,” because they are my KIDS’ friends, and so therefore their achievements and activities are things I might pick up only in passing and wouldn’t bother to retain other than in vague, impressionistic ways. Then there are my 2, about which I care passionately :-)</p>
<p>As for the comment that “everybody talks” - yes, that’s precisely why I avoided PTA and other mommy-klatch stuff like the plague. I don’t get what to me is a false constructed sense of community. “We” didn’t win the state football championship – the football players did. “We” didn’t get one of “our” kids into Stanford - that kid got himself into Stanford. My kids were not community property to be discussed and dissected.</p>
<p>Sometimes gossip is inaccurate. It seems to me school communities sometimes give kids reputations which are not wholly apropos. </p>
<p>The “strongest student” in the class might not have the best test scores, nor write the best essays. He or she might dominate class discussions, but another student might be more precise. The “socially awkward” student might become an able adult–many very smart people mature on a different schedule than others.</p>
<p>Since I am INFP, I don’t make judgments; I just have opinions.</p>
<p>But I will say that I think my life has been enriched by keeping in touch (to some extent, at least) with old high school classmates. One of them I count as my closest friend to this day. Through a Facebook contact with an old elementary school friend, I found a few other old friends. One of them had been in a band that played as the warm-up band for a quite famous group. (They must be very famous, because I had heard of them!) Another, who did not particularly stand out in high school, has become extremely wealthy–I am glad to hear of that. Through another Facebook contact, I have learned that another of my old friends has finished a book consisting of humor columns–somewhat like Erma Bombeck, but a bit sweeter. I made contact with another friend who had Stage IV breast cancer, in time to have some serious email exchanges about the past, and to tell her how very wrong the high school GC was, who suggested that she should go to work immediately after high school, since she had no money for college. Of course, she knew that already: she put herself through college, subsequently got two master’s degrees and wound up in an Executive-Management type position.</p>
<p>I am very pleased that QMP keeps in touch with some old high school friends.</p>
<p>Of course, a high school class is among the grandest of granfalloons. Nevertheless, I would be interested in knowing what people are doing now. They are not irrelevant to me.</p>
<p>I agree with Pizzagirl (post #133). It’s no small wonder that people who receive a piece of mail called a “rejection letter” feel (personally) rejected. I think that’s human nature. However, my sympathy for the people who receive them is diminished when they suggest that others who they perceive as less deserving got admitted where they, or their children, didn’t for reasons other than merit. </p>
<p>TheGFG posted: “I can imagine that a rejection will feel more personal if someone you know well from your same high school is accepted by the school that rejected you…this happened for S with Georgetown. It really rankled because the other student was regarded by S and his classmates as extremely awkward with minimal social skills, yet was selected for the School of Foreign Service. S kept saying there was no way anyone would ever send her on any sort of diplomatic mission, even in an administrative capacity. She never got a job in any related field, by the way, and after a few years went back to grad school. I must admit it still bothers me a little because I suspect the teachers felt a little sorry for her and overdid her rec letters.”</p>
<p>How does a teenage boy know what criteria the government uses when selecting people for diplomatic missions and why would he feel it’s his position to judge whether or not this girl met them? Whether or not she pursued the major as a career has no bearing on the appropriateness of her acceptance into the program. (How would you even know all the jobs your child’s high school classmate held through four years of college and however many years that passed before she entered grad school, especially if they weren’t close friends?) There could be any number of reasons why she went to grad school; none of them are our business. Why did this girl’s acceptance “rankle” TheGFG if she didn’t feel the girl was less qualified and took the spot that should have gone to her son? (There’s no guarantee, by the way, that even if the girl had been rejected that TheGFG’s son would have been chosen to fill the spot.) But how could TheGFG determine that the girl was less qualified than her son? Did TheGFG have access to the girl’s transcripts (SAT scores, course load, AP scores, EC list, service projects, etc.) and the criteria the college admissions committee used to make their selection? If not, it’s presumptuous, and certainly sounds like sour grapes, to say (the girl’s acceptance to Georgetown) “bothers” her “because (she) suspect(s) the teachers felt a little sorry for her and overdid her rec letters.” What, I wonder, does TheGFG possibly imagine was in those rec letters that would sway the admissions people at Georgetown to accept an otherwise unqualified student? More to the point, would Georgetown accept an unqualified student based solely on the recommendation of a high school guidance counselor? I hardly think so. Therefore, the girl must have been accepted (appropriately) based on her merits.</p>
<p>Pizzagrl, I don’t know about your community, but I must say that PTAs have greatly enriched the schools my daughter has attended. At her high school (gigantic selective test-in NYC public school), one of the co-presidents of the PTA has a daughter with an IEP who has had a difficult time there and I am sure her mom doesn’t participate in parent bragfests. Nor do I believe she agreed to hold the office to get special treatment for her kid. She’s just a good-hearted person who was kind of roped into it, as are many PTA volunteers.</p>
<p>I would hate to think that everyone who doesn’t want to participate in bragfests avoids the PTAs in their kids’ schools. There’s a big diversity of income levels among the parents at all the schools my kid attended (60 percent free- and reduced-price lunch, many first-generation immigrant families speaking other languages at home, but plenty of wealthier and educated families at the high school) and although the PTA can never raise the kind of money raised by PTAs in masters-of-the-universe neighborhoods in NYC, the organization has filled in the gaps when government spending dropped in addition to arranging for informative programs for parents unfamiliar with various high school processes and programs. But being a PTA officer or other volunteer is often be a thankless task.</p>
<p>We are not talking about how a group of middle-aged adults understand the world after having observed what Periwinkle is pointing out. We are talking about how a 17 year old with limited life experience handles a major disappointment in which all of his life accomplishments have been judged and found wanting. We are talking about how a parent may feel watching the pain of her firstborn and being hurt and disappointed too. </p>
<p>Seeing how quickly some of you make very condemning judgments about posters based on how they felt during one hour of their lives after a disappointment, I am not sure I am buying that you are so above non-virtuous thoughts about others as you claim to be. S did go on to mention that the awkward girl had a very interesting EC, which Georgetown may have liked. But people ARE actually better-suited for some professions than others. I don’t think it’s so very nasty to wonder in the privacy of one’s home how someone who can’t converse could be a diplomat as we understood the profession, or wonder why teachers would recommend her for that specialized school.</p>
This is what some folks always say in these conversations. I must say it is a refreshingly optimistic and non-cynical view of human nature and the operation of institutional decision-making. It’s probably better to convey this attitude to our children in most cases in which they lose out to somebody else for something they wanted. But once in a while, you may have some knowledge that strongly suggests some other reason, and in such a case, I see nothing wrong with acknowledging the unfairness. In between those cases, I also see no reason to avoid recognized the perplexing results. Thus, “It does seem odd that X would be admitted to a school of foreign service, since she has been so withdrawn in situations in which we’ve seen her. Maybe she comes out of her shell in other situations.” But I’m not going to say, “Maybe Harvard wants a few cheaters.”</p>
<p>I fully admit to being ridiculous. But a side bar observation- the folks who are on this thread who admit to taking rejection personally (either their own, or their kids) don’t seem the slightest bit interested in hearing the perspective of the people who do not take it seriously.</p>
<p>A kid from my kids HS is clerking for a Supreme Court Justice. I am apoplectic with joy; I think it’s just the greatest thing I’ve heard all week. You can’t imagine the number of folks in town who have something snarky to say. I almost want to say, “Do you really think that she’s taken away an opportunity from your kid, who went to third tier law school and is now working part-time doing doc review in the basement of an office tower in Tulsa?” but of course I wouldn’t, since that would be snarky. But a kid we knew-- whether or not she was the smartest kid to ever walk the halls is irrelevant, she’s made it into the absolute stratosphere of the legal profession at the age of 28 after being Editor of Law Review, graduating Summa from a competitive college, etc. Takes nothing away from me and my kids to be excited for her. So why do folks need to parse this news as if it were a pronouncement from the Kremlin which is deep in subtext???</p>
<p>And we are not saying that the 17 yo doesn’t have the right to feel very disappointed, upset, etc. We are also not saying that it’s not very painful for the parent to watch the pain of the child. Of course those things are true.</p>
<p>We are asking what the utility is on focusing on OTHER people in that situation. Wouldn’t the child be better served by an attitude of “that’s THEIR loss – I admire how hard you tried and you have many great qualities that I know will serve you well” over an attitude of “you know, it really <em>isn’t</em> fair that Susie got into Georgetown, let’s try to figure out how Susie’s acceptance happened because she’s so much weaker than you.” Which may feel good in the moment to the kid as he hears mom agree with him that Susie really has no personality and was weaker, but is that the right long term approach?</p>
I’m surprised by the observation, since mine would be pretty much the opposite. This reinforces my view that there is just a fundamental difference in point of view on this topic–it’s been discussed on previous threads in different contexts, often involving the same posters.</p>
<p>Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean that they are not interested in your opinion.</p>
<p>What would those who admit to having “taken it personally” at some point have to do to prove that they were listening to you? Declare their inferiority and pledge to be more like you and PG in the future in order to prove that they listened?</p>
<p>I fully validate the feelings of a parent and a kid who suffer disappointment at not getting something they want- whether it’s a big thing like a college admission, or a little thing like not getting a part in the school play.</p>
<p>Is there validation in return for my feeling that my kid should not be the subject of someone else’s deep discussion and examination around the dinner table to parse how he got in to XYZ? Or to have parents (I know kids talk about other kids-- it’s HS after all) participate in unraveling “Gee he’s so unsuited to the career he’s interested in” type of discussion?</p>
<p>frankly, I don’t care who listens or not. Like everyone else on this thread, the die is already cast and our kids are well past the age of being actively parented. But it is eye-opening nonetheless.</p>
<p>And again- sorry for being ridiculous. My guess is that the parents of little Suzy who got into Georgetown are just as protective of little Suzy’s feelings as we all are of our own kids. Imagine that. Even with her limited social skills, her parents don’t want her becoming “Exhibit A” in the college admissions trash talk sweepstakes.</p>
<p>What? I don’t do anything of the kind. Now you are just attacking people randomly. How do you get from GFG and kid having a private conversation to “poor Suzy” being systematically eviscerated, presumably in some public way?</p>
<p>The comment about NOT being impervious was, as I said, directed towards PG’s last post.</p>
<p>Well, I see a big difference between discussing Suzy and harming Suzy. I readily admit that Suzy’s doings are none of my business. But what we discuss in the privacy of our own home is none of her business, either. I’m sure that there were plenty of other families talking about my kids (especially since they were legacy admits, and one of them was a bit “stealthy” with respect to some of the qualifications)–but that doesn’t bother me. I didn’t hear what they said.</p>
<p>I agree with that. If - and I have zero idea if this is the case - anyone said that about my kid - it would be a tree falling in the forest as far as I’m concerned. </p>
<p>My “objection” is less about being mean to poor Suzy in the privacy of my home (what Suzy doesn’t hear won’t hurt her), and more about whether it’s the best / most utilitarian / most expedient / most effective way of comforting my kid, helping him lick his wounds, put his disappointment behind him and move on confidently. And I think part of that approach is simply exuding the attitude that what Suzy winds up doing doesn’t affect him in any way, so good for Suzy and now let’s focus on you and where you’re going, versus dissect Suzy’s credentials and deservingness.</p>
<p>I accept that life is not fair, and that I am not always capable of judging what is fair. College admissions are so complex now that none of us has it all figured out, or this board would not exist. Yes, we don’t have all the facts to be the perfect judges, but let’s remember that neither do the adcoms!</p>
<p>There have been a few times my kid has gotten an honor that we as a family believed was more deserved by another child. I would not have been surprised to learn that maybe other observant people had had the same opinion and perhaps puzzled over it (or griped about it) among themselves. In one instance, I had the opportunity to tell the young lady that we were sorry she did not receive the honor because we believed she deserved it more. It was an obvious injustice and I think healing comes easier for those slighted if that is acknowledged. </p>
<p>Recently, D’s track coach stood up and proclaimed one of D’s teammates to be the fastest in a event on the team, and gave her the relay anchor spot for the meet. The facts consistently showed otherwise and so D was confused and upset. I agreed that it was wrong and unfair, but encouraged her to let it go and forget it. I explained to her that perhaps the coach was giving the older girl some honor in that moment as a senior captain, but that I suspected that come the more important county and state meets, the coach would give the relay spot to the one who was actually the fastest. And he did.</p>