<p>OK, I just got my first surprise. Ds told me a friend of his was WL’d at an in-state public most kids at his school use as a safety. This kid had been invited to do an overnight with the honors program so must have had the stats to merit the school’s attention, so for him to get WL’d really surprised me.</p>
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<p>Yes, but I as a parent am not reading my kids’ friends’ Facebook pages. So how do you all know?</p>
<p>One person’s “close-knit” is another person’s “too close for comfort” apparently! </p>
<p>I see nothing “close-knit” about knowing other kids’ SAT scores, GPA’s or the full list of where they are applying, any more than I would feel “close-knit” if I knew my coworkers’ BMI indexes, amount of money in their 401K’s and what their homes are appraised at.</p>
<p>Also judging from where my kids are looking at, most of their schools are going to be met with a big fat “huh? what’s that?” from the other kids (“Bryn Mawr? What the heck is that?”) so not even sure what the point should be of them broadcasting it!</p>
<p>Bryn Mawr has such a fantastic history of fabulous women graduates! My D wasn’t interested personally, but if I had it to do over again…(but I digress. sorry)</p>
<p>Maybe it’s one of those regional things again? I have absolutely no idea how I would know test scores for anyone but my son unless I flat out asked a parent or the student which I would never, ever do. We sorta/kinda knew where our very best friends D was applying the year our S was also applying, but it was on a totally casual level mostly related to visit “trips” that we were all taking. I have no idea how their D did on tests and I have no idea what her eventual college acceptance outcomes were. Nor do they know about acceptances/rejections for our S and they are our absolutely best friends that we spend and have spent an enormous amount of time with. </p>
<p>As far as what surprised me this year…S2 got a couple exceptances that I didn’t think were “in the bag.” He also got “better” merit money than his older brother from a couple of the same colleges his brother applied to despite having identical stats.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, I see your point. But I don’t think there’s necessarily anything out of line in parents being aware of a degree of academic information about their children’s friends. Much of it comes out in the big informal high school newsfeed that’s churned out every day. One kid asks another how he did on his SATs, or kids decide ahead of time to share their scores because they’re close friends or for moral support, etc. If it’s a good/bad/unexpected score, the kid might mention it at home, and then Mom and Dad become aware of it. If the school has an honor roll, parents will notice whether their child is one of 15 kids with straight As, or one of 60 kids with honorable mention, or one of 200 kids who didn’t make the honor roll at all. I don’t think it’s inappropriate to notice which other kids are on the honor roll, or which ones have been named Commended students in the National Merit competition, etc. </p>
<p>I am surprised at the depth of information some folks here seem to have about where their kids’ friends have been accepted/rejected. But not all of it may be accurate. And, of course, many parents willingly share some of their own kids’ information, often with friends who’ve been through the process a few times themselves, looking for advice. And there are parents who overshare, too. :)</p>
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<p>Right. I guess it’s the concept of actively <em>retaining</em> that information versus letting it go in one ear and out the other. Honestly, I don’t care enough about any of my kids’ classmates (other than in the generic sense of wishing them all well) to <em>retain</em> that Suzie got a 2150, or was it a 2200? Or that Billy is taking both AP Bio and AP Chem (none of that would register with me unless my kids were in those classes and mentioned that Billy was a classmate). I get that kids might discuss these things, but I think there’s also a difference between a kid-life and an adult-kid life. I mean, I don’t concern myself with knowing whether Suzie-is-still-dating-Billy-but-they-had-a-falling-out-and-now-she’s-going-with-Bobby-to-the-prom either. I had my high school life and all the attendant drama; I think my kids are entitled to their lives and discussions with their friends without me being aware of it. (Obviously I’m not talking about “bad” situations that need an adult’s involvement, such as drugs – but just everyday gossip and goings-on.)</p>
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<p>They are all just random names to me, however, unless they are my kids’ closest friends.</p>
<p>I did note that one girl, who always seems to sweep a lot of honors in any school awards ceremony, is going to U Michigan Honors Program. Whether she applied to every single Ivy and got turned down – whether she wanted U Mich because of this program, or because she loves Big 10 sports, or because she wants to stay a day’s drive close to home, or because that’s all the family could afford, or whatever – I just don’t see how it concerns me when she is nothing more to me than just a young lady at my kids’ school who appears to be smart and headed for great things. I wish her well, of course – but I just don’t see how it’s my business how she goes about her college selection and what her scores, etc. are. To try to find out any more about her, when I wouldn’t otherwise know her if I tripped over her on the street, seems really off to me.</p>
<p>Open discussion of college acceptances and rejections might indeed be a regional phenomenon, since it seems that people in the NE are much more invested in the college admissions process than folks elsewhere. Due to good public and private schools (where taking 6 APs each junior and senior year is commonplace) and high population density, the competition is pretty fierce if you’re interested in an Ivy or other top school. For example, it is harder to gain acceptance to the elite colleges coming from our state than from any other state in the Union. So, if a kid decides to enter the fray, it can become a pretty all-consuming pursuit. </p>
<p>Also, many of us in the NE are willing to allow our kids to travel out of state for a school–a fact which opens up a huge world of possibilities. That, in turn, will necessitate much more research on our part and possibly more travel too. So while a parent probably won’t mention to a friend that they’re off to visit the local state univ., they may very well mention a trip across the country! Kids at our high school here in the NE are applying to schools such as Rice, Emory, WUSTL, UChicago, Stanford, USC, Cal, UCLA, UMich, UNC, W&M etc. In contrast, my sister-in-law in Texas tells me that in her social circle, people rarely consider applying out of state so it’s not the same scene there. She knew only 1 mom whose child applied to the Ivies and says she wouldn’t have thought of it for her kids. </p>
<p>Also, I think it depends what academic circles the students and their friends belong to. College doesn’t seem to be a big topic of conversation among average students. (My D doesn’t know where her prom date will attend college–supposedly the topic never came up. Personally, I think that’s really odd that she has never asked. D doesn’t agree. He isn’t in that higher academic cohort such that it’s a big concern for him or his friends.) But among the top 3% of the class, college admissions it is of major interest to children and parents.</p>
<p>And I would agree that some information is inferential. Mom says D’s first choice is Princeton, and then several weeks later tells you D is going to Notre Dame. She doesn’t say D was rejected from Princeton, but you assume she was. Both are private, expensive schools but Princeton’s financial aid is unparalled, so it’s unlikely money is the issue and that D is turning down Princeton for a cheaper option. So it could be you’re assuming wrong, but unlikely. </p>
<p>And pizzagirl’s point is well-taken about retaining the information. To me, retention of that kind of information about your child’s peers can imply a personal vested interest, which usually means there is some jealousy or competition there. I admit to being curious about her friends and classmates, but she’s always saying “Mom, I already told you…” For me to retain it would necessitate a PERSONAL interest, not casual curiosity.</p>
<p>My biggest surprise is that college admissions is so predictable, not a crapshoot at all. Students with good GPAs (~4.0/4.0), great test scores (~2380+ SAT, 35+ ACT), and OK ECs all got into top 15 schools, and the higher the test scores the better the schools (HYP).</p>
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<p>Uh-oh, that directly contradicts an older thread in which we were told that kids in the NE don’t bother going out of the NE because they can’t understand why someone would ever go out of the NE when there are so many choices close to home and it’s such a Big Bother (heavy sigh) to take a plane to a godforsaken place like, say, Minneapolis. (Just joshin’ ya, theGFG.)</p>
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<p>Yes. Exactly.</p>
<p>Biggest surprise for me was hearing about kids getting into very nice UCs (UCLA, UCSD) and then getting rejected from American and GWU. I’m wondering (to myself, not saying anything to D1 because these are her friends) if this was due to the applicants applying for FA, though I have no idea if that was the case.</p>
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Kids in the NE are willing to go out of state, but they’re not willing to leave civilization entirely.</p>
<p>I was surprised by how many people (internationals) had exactly one option- very good ones, as it happens, but still…</p>
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<p>Hmmm we go to New York (but prefer Chicago). We do leave the country if the opportunity presents itself. We do tend to flyover Iowa and Nebraska whenever possible to get to California, Colorado, you know places like that. D.C., Maryland, Virgina…check. Visit friends in Boston…check. We sometimes venture south when the snow gets unbearable, it takes forever to get through Indiana but it’s worth it. Texas not so much. Santa Fe whenever possible. It’s nice being in the middle of everything. And heck we can get on a boat (not ours, too small) and go to the Caribbean from our dock…just like east coasters. I guess we Midwesterners just don’t talk about other people’s kids all that much. :-)</p>
<p>Like others I am astonished at how much some people here seem to know about other children’s/family’s situations. Our son goes to a typical public school, and is one of its best students. We have an idea about who a small handful of the other top students in the school are, but only because we read in the paper which students are NMFs, etc. I know the father of one of the other top students professionally and ran into that family at a college fair for some top schools, so I know that student was applying to some top schools. That’s it. Our son is only aware of what his closest friends, none of whom are in the category of the top students, are doing with respect to college choices.</p>
<p>That aside, let me comment on “surprises.” Our own son’s results had no real surprises. He was denied or waitlisted at the several “top five” schools he applied to, accepted at the “top 20” school and at all the other schools to which he applied. He received scholarships at all but the top 20 school. Basically it played out exactly according to the odds. He easily had the qualifications to be admitted to them all. The selectivity of the schools he applied to, however, made it possible he would be denied at them all. But what happened is just what any bettor would have predicted.</p>
<p>In fact my one overwhelming takeaway from the process is that admissions departments at the top colleges are probably a waste of personnel. I am convinced that any top college could train a temp, a clerk or a reasonably smart Dean to separate the applications by certain objective criteria (objective applicant qualifications and preferred class demographics) then randomly pick out the number of applicants from the appropriate criterion stacks needed to arrive at the desired number of matriculants after applying the expected yield rate. It would end up with a class wholly indistinguishable from what the armies of admissions officers supply with their squishy “holistic” standards, their trained eyes for “passion,” “edginess,” and “pointyness” and their deep gazes into the souls of high school students through the medium of short essays. People are malleable. Young people especially so. Whatever the culture of the college, most (but not all) enrolees will quickly adapt to it, whether they are selected through the agonized decision making of admissions officers faced with 10,000 qualified applicants for 800 spots, or through the dispassionate removal of names from a hat. It is not the egg, it is the chicken. At least not when you have so many good eggs available.</p>
<p>I am not knocking admissions officers’ earnestness, mind you, nor certainly their sincere belief that what they are doing actually makes for a different result, nor even their complete good faith in what they do (subject, of course, to the inevitable vagaries of human mood). I’m just saying I don’t believe what they do truly makes any difference. </p>
<p>Viewed this way, there really are no surprises. Once in a while at the craps table, against all the odds, you will throw double sixes at the same time that you have a bet down on double sixes. But keep betting on double sixes and you will lose your shirt. The time you won wasn’t truly a surprise, just a perfectly normal aberration. Those aberrations will occur whether through random chance or through the inherently (and unconsciously) capricious decisions of admissions officers.</p>
<p>Having gone through some small towns in N England, it’s kind of funny that the midwest gets seen as godforsaken. Heck of a lot more happening in, say, Minneapolis or Chicago than in some of those N England towns in the middle of nowhere!</p>
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<p>I think you make a very fair point, MilwDad.</p>
<p>Regarding MilwDad’s point, I agree, although keep in mind that the ad coms also have to round out a class, they can’t take on five shortstops for the baseball team, five french horn players, etc.</p>
<p>I think quite a bit of the work that they do is rounding out a class with students that offer different talents. That makes it seem arbitrary, but I suspect there is more method to what seems like madness than we on the outside looking in can see.</p>
<p>I, too, agree with MilwDad…I just don’t think there is very much “surprising” about how things turn out. If you took away the “need” or “lack of need” factor it would be even less vagarious.</p>