NY Times article

Parents Forum
101

<p>Carolyn:</p>

<p>If a student posted that essay here for critique, I don't believe she would be skewered. I think she'd get largely the same advice....and a range of opinions. I've had students send me similar essays and I've recommended going back to the drawing boards on topic selection, suggesting that the essay is a great place to present one particular interest or activity that will allow the college to identify the student as a potential contributor to the campus. Even when the topic is good, I almost always recommend trying to move from the abstract to the concrete. I always tell students to pull me into the story and to let the story speak for itself in terms of conclusions. I try to be nice about it. So far, I've yet to see a revision that wasn't much better.</p>

<p>This essay, however, was given to the NYTIMES for national publication. I guess we probably should reserve the skewering for her parents. From the article and the video feature on Ester, she seems like a great kid, a kid whose essay may well have given colleges a completely false impression. Alls well that ends well. She's gotten into a couple of really good colleges. Frankly, she doesn't look like a particularly great fit for Williams in the first place.</p>

102

<p>I didn't miss your point, Carolyn. If she and her parents did not want to get their 15 minutes of fame by publishing her essay, they should not have gone public, in the NY Times, with her story and writing. I would never criticize an essay by a student who did not make it public - but they chose to be public with it. How can you say that it should not be discussed publicly??? Are you saying that people should not discuss issues or people who are public figures or put themselves in public situations? I don't agree with that at all.</p>

<p>Also, at 17, in one year, she will be old enough to go get shot at in a war - but people are not to criticize her for having elitist and snobbish views? I find the inability to read that essay, and say, "Whoa, what are you thinking kid??" leads to kids who think they are better than everyone else in the world.</p>

103

<p>As I just wrote on the Smith forum, the vast majority of these young women seemed more driven than deep. I'd prefer someone who was not so overwhelmingly busy who took some time to read some poetry or go bike-riding with a friend or who made a meal for a sick neighbor.</p>

<p>And, frankly, that lack of depth and self-reflection was evident in the essays.</p>

104

<p>I didn't much care for Esther's essay, but it offers me [and may I sugguest any of us] absolutely no basis to draw anything but the very most superficial conclusions about the sort of student - much less person - she is. </p>

<p>My guess [and its really only that - a guess] is that she's a nice enough young lady who is, like most kids her age, rather sheltered and parochial in her worldview and who, also like most kids her age from privileged backgrounds and schools [and perhaps Americans in general], have been told their whole life how superior they are because of where they live and go to school. </p>

<p>I know it was true for me at that age. A few years in a good college and a couple of setbacks and reality checks she'll inevitably experience, and she'll see things quite differently and more realistically. </p>

<p>I wouldn't recommend anyone write the essay she wrote - if for no reason other than you never know who you're going to offend [as someone on here said, what if the admissions officer had been from Kentucky]. </p>

<p>The essay is certainly fair game for criticism since it was published as part of the NYT story. But let's leave the young lady out of it.</p>

105

<p>They bus at Newton North. That's not done everywhere. I'd like to read the essay of a relatively poor student bussed to that school.</p>

106

<p>Adigal, Perhaps I misunderstood. </p>

<p>Are you personally acquainted with Esther? Or are you just relying on a newspaper account and a few paragraphs from an essay to judge her? If you know her personally, perhaps you could sit down with her and her parents and gently express your concerns to them that way.</p>

<p>Otherwise, how exactly is being skewered in public by a group of <em>adults</em> who don't know her going to teach her to have more respect for others? </p>

<p>She is 17. She did not murder anyone. She did not commit a crime. Let it go.</p>

107

<p>"The essay is certainly fair game for criticism since it was published as part of the NYT story. But let's leave the young lady out of it."</p>

<p>How do you do that? Was the essay written by itself? Or does it reflect the writer? So if someone (to use a really exaggerated example) committed a crime, should we say, "Well, I hate that crime, but let's leave that criminal out of it." Did the crime commit itself??? </p>

<p>I personally don't have anything against this Esther girl; I don't know her, but I also don't like the attitude I saw in her essay, and can understand how she was rejected by colleges, even if she had great scores. What I can't understand is how any colleges took her - after hearing that Smith took her, I would cross that school off my daughter's list if this kind of elitism and prejudice against others is what they look for in their students.
:)</p>

108

<p>I haven't looked at CC for about 2 years now but I read the Times every day, and sure enough today's paper brought back memories of this place. </p>

<p>Having read every post in this thread, I am pretty appalled. </p>

<p>Just for background: I grew up in one of the NYC-suburb equivalents of Newton. I’m now a sophomore at one of the top ivies. I applied to a different ivy ED and was deferred and then rejected, all the while checking CC daily to see how my competition was doing. I spent countless hours on the site researching schools and getting feedback on my application – some of it more useful than others. I even had some parents (or at least they said they were) from the Parents Forum proof-read my essays (if you’re reading this you don’t know who I am, but thanks). I’m pre-med and am doing fine in my classes and in everything else. To summarize, things “worked out” for me and I’m happy where I am, even though the application process had its bumps.</p>

<p>When I read the Times article this morning, I had two reactions: 1) That’s exactly how it is, and 2) I feel bad for those kids. </p>

<p>I didn’t think about the girl’s GPA. I didn’t think about whether her essay was superficial or snobbish or any of that. I thought: this is how kids grow up right now. And that sucks. </p>

<p>Someone in this thread asked why the Times thought this is news worthy – don’t we already know that there are spoiled rich kids with college drama? If that was the story, it would never have been printed. The point of the article is that we (re: you) are providing an environment for our high school kids that is absolutely crazy. If you don’t have a great GPA, SAT, extracurriculars, essays, blah blah blah, and if on top of that you’re not social and athletic and good looking, you’re doing something wrong. This is all old news to you, and it probably doesn’t even sound that crazy – I probably would have said the same thing when I was an active CC member. But it is crazy. I really don’t think that it’s a good thing that kids in high school need to be working crazy hours to keep up with their work. I don’t think that kids need to be involved in 10 different activities (and be in leadership positions in half of them) to be considered “normal.” I don’t think that 17 year olds need to be writing perfect essays on the meaning of life and then be judged when they fail. But that’s basically what’s going on.</p>

<p>I would hope that at least some of you agree with me. I’m not saying that this environment is entirely the parents’ fault and I certainly don’t have any solutions.</p>

<p>I’m simply pointing out that this thread already has 100 responses from parents who I’m sure care about their kids, yet not a single one of them has made any of the above points. Esther sounds like an interesting girl, but she certainly doesn’t sound like someone I’d want to hang out with. Then again she probably wouldn’t have time to, busy doing God’s work and all.</p>

109

<p>I would hope that perhaps some other kids reading this might see that one does not generally score points with admissions counselors or the world by skewering a whole group of people, based on their geographic location. That is all.</p>

110

<p>anon09- Excellent post. I agree with you. I don't have a solution,but I absolutely agree with you. My son refused to play the game, but due to a good combination of circumstances, including being an athletic recruit, he wound up at his first choice Ivy. The twist is that he doesn't like it. That makes me feel even more sorry for all the parents and kids who think that only an Ivy will do! They have no idea whether it will be right for their kid or not. My son got exactly what he thought he wanted, but the reality of it proved to be a lot different from the dream.</p>

111

<p>anon09 - You said what I thought I said -- And, as I wrote on the Smith forum, the article reminded me how glad I am that my kids are growing up in Maine, far away from that pressure cooker atmosphere. And you know what, my kids are having nice lives, doing well in school, but also not working themselves so hard that they can't take the time to relax and self-reflect. In my humble opinion, the regime they are under is not healthy and it is not conducive to emotional maturity, spiritual health, or creative thought.</p>

112

<p>I grew up about 40 miles from Campbellsville. The Kentucky comments would have been a bit easier to take if there was any assurance that this young lady had any appreciation of what it was like to live there day-to-day, with the reasonable certianty that tomorrow would be like yesterday, no matter what you did, forever. </p>

<p>We can all use a lesson from time to time on understanding and accepting those that are different without being judgemental.</p>

113

<p>Anon, I agree with Momofwildchild - excellent post. We do, as adults, tend to have expectations of perfection for children today -- and, unfortunately, that means there is very little room for making mistakes or not living up to other people's standards. I agree with you that that is very, very sad.</p>

<p>The other thought I kept having while reading this article is "what about boys?" Marilee Jones, of MIT admissions, has astutely noted in her book, Less Stress, More Success, that teenage girls tend to conform to expectations of perfection, whereas many teenage boys just opt out.</p>

114

<p>I haven't read the article yet, had to work today, but I've been reading <em>about</em> the article.</p>

<p>A datum: Smith does encourage parents to write a letter in support of the application. Many parents do, many parents don't. It's an option that I can see easily shanked with some sort of mindless my-daughter-is-great kind of letter. I did write a letter for my D's application file. I looked at all the other parts of her application to see what the most important attribute(s) that weren't covered by the grades, scores, and letters of rec. I suspect it did not affect her admissions status at all. But that's the same advice I'd give any parent writing such a letter to Smith, on the off choice that it <em>might</em> affect admissions.</p>

115

<p>Kudos to all who already said, "Lighten up on Esther."
And maybe we should all lighten up. Try to dig up Christopher Buckley's "College Essay" from The New Yorker of 11-28-2005:
It says, in part:
"I am not one to say, "Omigod, like poor me," despite the fact that my dad would on numerable occasions drink an entire bottle of raspberry cordial and try to run Mamma over with the combine harvester....
"What do I bring to the college experience?...First, a positive attitude, despite all this crap I have had to deal with. Secondly, full tuition payment....
"While Dad pretty much wiped out the money in the process of running over Mamma -- she was in the house at the time -- my grandparents say they can pay for my education, and even throw in a little 'walking-around money' for the hardworking folks in the admissions department. Grandma says she will give up her heart and arthritis medications, and Grandpa says he will go back to work at the uranium mine....
"In this way, the college won't have to give me scholarship money that could go to some even more disadvantaged applicant, assuming there is one."</p>

116

<p>
[quote]
Was the essay written by itself?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No. Essays don't write themselves - although my perception is they are also often not written by the applicants either. </p>

<p>I think there are several things to take from the NYT story that can help further illuminate the college application process [isn't that what we're interested in here?]. One of them is what makes a good essay and what, as in this case, doesn't. </p>

<p>But even if this young lady is the rather unflattering things many have called her here today, what positive is gained from pointing it out - again and again?</p>

117

<p>Anon09</p>

<p>Thanks, and I had the same reactions as you. The vitriol on this thread has amazed me. That so many allegedly concerned parents can dump on a 17 year old in this fashion is far more disturbing to me than any tinge of elitism in an essay by someone who hasn't yet experienced the world at large. It's ironic that those who have shredded this girl and deemed her unworthy of this or that top school are slinging the word "elitist."</p>

<p>Thanks also to Carolyn for trying to bring some sanity to the conversation.</p>

118

<p>
[quote]
The point of the article is that we (re: you) are providing an environment for our high school kids that is absolutely crazy.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not in our neighborhood. My daughter's high school crowd wasn't anything like that in terms of college applications. I think the picture painted by the NY Times is limited to a relative handful of high schools, perhaps no more than a hundred or two across the country.</p>

119

<p>Wow, I think some of you are being really harsh. This is a 17 year old kid, her brain isn't even fully developed yet, and based on this email <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/us/girls-emails-txt.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/us/girls-emails-txt.html&lt;/a> to the NYT reporter, she feels like a cog in some kind of grand machine that she's not even really sure she wants to be part of:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Esther Mobley on 'The Aeneid' and Applying to College:
Speaking of that kind of conflict -- the conflict between succeeding in our society and being genuine -- we're on book IV of the Aeneid in Latin class, and on Friday we got to the most poignant part of it, a part I've been anticipating for years. It's when Aeneas tells Dido he has to leave her, because it's his destiny to go on and found Rome. And Dido is completely distraught, she is in agony, and she appeals to him. To her, it sounds absurd that he would leave her because Cupid came and told him he had to go on and found Rome -- he doesn't even know where Rome is, or anything about it, he just expects to go found it. Aeneas explains to Dido that he wants to stay with her, he really does, but he has "pietate" -- which doesn't translate really into "piety" -- it's bigger than piety. It's a sense of duty, a sense of purpose, of knowing where you're going, an absolute devotion to that. Aeneas has such pietate that he would sacrifice his own happiness for his duty. The final line of the section is: Italiam non sponte sequor -- "I do not seek Italy of my own accord."</p>

<p>It makes me think: I do not apply to college of my own accord.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And by the way, how many of us would NOT cringe to read our college application essays 25 years later? Just re-reading some of the letters I wrote to my father from my freshman year is enough to make me gag (why oh why did he have to save them?) I was a spoiled, sheltered 18-year-old suburban know-it-all who lacked adequate empathy and humility. I had NO experience in the real world. What fixed that? College, of course, and the subsequent 25 years of the real world. I learned how little I knew, how silly I was, how protected I'd been, how I had never taxed my brain in my entire life. Thank God at least ONE university decided to take a chance on educating me.</p>

120

<p>Beg to differ anon: I made your points early on when I answered idad's question of why no one posted this article by saying--why would they since that article is CC.</p>

<p>As for
[quote]
..there is no need to skewer a 17 year old publically.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>She and her parents put this essay out there, in the NYT yet, for all the world to see. They are obviously proud of it. Whereas, if my son wrote that, I would be embarrassed/ashamed.</p>

<p>I don't understand why some are so protective of this girl. My kid is almost 17 and he knows better than this; as do my husband and I.</p>