NY Times article

Parents Forum
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<p>I too am sickened by the attacks on a 17 year old in this thread. I'll admit my own attitude is based in part on a series the Times did about 3 NYC kids applying to college about 5-6 years ago. I know one of the kids (and know that another frequent poster on this site knows him too.) There was very little correlation between the kid I know and the kid the Times wrote about. </p>

<p>Here are some of the attacks I think are unfair: </p>

<p>(1) There is NO evidence that this girl whined about not having a credit card. The statement was that she was one of the few girls in her circle of friends who didn't have one. The exchange may have gone like this: (Reporter): Do you have a credit card? (Esther): No. (Reporter) Do any of your friends have them? (Esther)Yes. (Reporter) What percentage of your friends have them? (Esther): I don't know--but most do, I guess. Or, it may be that one of the other girls said that Esther didn't have a credit card and most of the others in their group did. </p>

<p>That would hardly be "whining." So, please don't make things up. </p>

<p>(2) Don't assume that it was Esther and/or her parents who WANTED her to be the center of this story. Also don't assume that you know how the story was "pitched." I think it's at least possible that Newton North was approached by the Times, which said it wanted to do a story about the unreasonable pressure on girls at schools like it to do well. The school may have thought this was an article that would stress that it isI important to seek balance. The school could have ASKED a number of girls to meet with the reporter. (After all, those pictures are OBVIOUSLY taken INSIDE THE HIGH SCHOOL, so the school was co-operating.) The Times may then have chosen which girl to focus on. Can you TRY to imagine how you would feel if your guidance counselor or assistant principal or some such authority figure asked you to meet with a Times reporter who was doing a story? Wouldn't it be a bit hard to expect a 17 year old to turn down such a request? What if that request came from a college advisor who (a) was the person writing your college recs and (b) made it clear that she felt the girl should be honored by the fact she was being asked to represent her school in a sense? What if the school made it sound to Esther's parents as if they were being asked to participate precisely because they were NOT wholly materialistic?
Have any of you read Prep? Remember how the reporter managed to twist things--how the girl said everything the reporter quoted her as saying--but really kind of tricked the girl into saying it? </p>

<p>(3) The essay isn't that bad. Great? No. But does she come across as a snob? I don't think so. If I had to hazard a guess, I think someone said to her "You have to tell the college something about yourself that makes you different than all of the girls in affluent suburbs like Newton. " So, what did this girl think was different about herself? The fact that she had grandparents who lived in rural Kentucky--so she had seen something other than an affluent suburb. </p>

<p>To me, the sad part of the story is that I'm sure that girls in high schools like Newton North will conclude that what hurt Esther is she did not play the game to the max. She didn't take a SAT prep course, for example, and I'm sure her scores hurt her. She only took 2 APs--both in foreign languages, while many of her classmates took a more rigorous schedule. She spent a lot of time doing community service--and personally I didn't get the impression that she did it to impress colleges. But it's not the kind of community service that gives you things that enhance your college app. She didn't claim to chair a fund raising drive that raised $250,000 or that she was elected president of some national organization or that she built an orphanage in a third world country. </p>

<p>So, back off. I suspect that she's a good kid with good values. As I said before, I think it's probable that her high school administration asked her to co-operate with the story and that she was actually chosen because the administration thought she--and thus Newton North--would come across well in the article.</p>

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<p>etselec, it doesn't matter what your school is <em>really</em> like or what Esther is <em>really</em> likes -- what matters is what the colleges see. Colleges like Dartmouth or Amherst are NOT trying to see who is "qualified" and then admitting everyone who makes the cut --80% of their applicant pool is "qualified" -- they are picking the applicants who are the smartest, OR the most interesting, OR have some special talent or quality that appeals to them. </p>

<p>If your high school does not rank and sets up an incomprehensible grading system... then the colleges can't see which kids are the best... so then no one gets into college for being "best student at Norton". So a valedictorian at Podunk High with a 4.0 unweighted GPA is better off.... because at least that kid can show he is "best" at academics.</p>

<p>If your high school does not distinguish between the rigor of honors and AP classes.... then the colleges can't see which kids are taking the hardest courses. Colleges want to know which kids took the "most challenging" courseload possible at their respective high schools -- not that everyone has to follow that route, but because it is one more way they can sort the smartest and most highly motivated kids from the rest of the pack.</p>

<p>What do these college know about Esther? That she is a typical kid who is among dozens who have applied from the same high school with nothing to distinguish herself from the rest, and she wrote an essay about nothing. So they simply don't have a good reason to admit her. </p>

<p>Some kids from your high school probably had teacher recs that said, "X is amazing" or "Y is one of the smartest I have ever had in 20 years of teaching." Maybe from the same teachers who wrote letters for Esther that said, "Esther is a very bright and sweet girl who is a pleasure to be around." You might know these kids, and might think that X is has an insufferable ego, and Y is a self-absorbed nerd, and wonder why the colleges chose them over a lovely girl like Esther. But the colleges chose based on what they saw. </p>

<p>It's not a bad outcome, actually. Discouraging based on all those thin envelopes, but I think Smith is a great place for a girl like Esther -- it probably provides the right combination of nurturing and stimulus and challenge to allow for a lot of growth and change over the next 4 years. She will probably do very well there.</p>

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<p>I'd be astounded if Dartmouth or Amherst did not know about Newton North and its grading system. Dartmouth seemed to be crawling with NN grads when we visited. I also know Newton students who've gone to Amherst. As the article says, it is considered one of the best high schools in the country. In other words, it is well-known.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Modest SAT scores a two AP classes are the culprits in Esther's case.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not necessarily. Her SATs were high enough to get accepted at any school she applied to. From the sounds of it, her major interests were theater, religious, classics, and service. She missed an opportunity to sell one of those with the essay. Reinforcing something from the EC list with the essay is how you present an "identity" that the admissions offices can get their arms around. Many colleges, including those she applied to, are trying to stock theater and classics and religion departments. Williams has only averaged 9 Philosophy, 9 Religion, 6 Theater, and 2 Spanish majors a year over the last five years.</p>

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<p>"reading Kierkegaard for fun"</p>

<p>Yeah he is a laugh an hour. As phlosophers go he may be a regular standup comic but he ain't exactly James Thurber. "Fear and Trembling in Columbus" might make a good book title though.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Unfortunately, Esther's essay probably had nothing to do with her rejections.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, following Jonri's post that was FULL of assumptions, I'll add mine.</p>

<p>While it is impossible to speculate accurately about admissions and rejections, I'll have to disagree about the essay. Regardless of the degree of inadequacy of this essay, it would be hard to disagree that the essay DID NOT help the candidate at all. The essay is the greatest opportunity available to a student to ... shine and reinforces the INDIVIDUAL positives. </p>

<p>In this regard, the essay was a tragedy. Not only did it not underscore anything positive about the candidate, it detracted from the many positive attributes of the student that could have been used as a basis for the essay. Several WERE discussed in the NYT article:
[quote]
More than anything else, she wrote in an e-mail message, she wants to be a writer, "and religion is what I most like to write about." "I have such a strong sense of being supported by my faith," she continued. "It gives me priorities. That's why I'm not concerned about making money, because I know that there is so much more to living a rich life than having money.?

[/quote]
Why wasn't this part of the essay?</p>

<p>Yet, the student picked a truly bad subject, and people around her let her develop it into a disjointed and poorly executed project. Yes, the essay was not "that" bad in style, but that is simply not good enough for a very good student applying to the most competitive schools.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
So a valedictorian at Podunk High with a 4.0 unweighted GPA is better off.... because at least that kid can show he is "best" at academics.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Absolutely. Especially if you have read The Gatekeepers and have figured out to present yourself as a small-town Podunk High girl.</p>

<p>Trust me. The idea of how to compete with the Newton North girls applying to elite northeast colleges certainly got kicked around our kitchen counter a few times. These colleges are so oversubscribed from Massachusetts and suburban NYC, it's insane. </p>

<p>We got sick of going to college rep travelling road shows because they were all in Newton. The adcoms pass within five miles of our local high school on their well beaten track from Newton North up to Exeter. They've never set foot in our high school, which is in the top quarter or higher of Mass high schools. That's OK; you can flip that to your advantage because the app is not necessarily saddled with the "this one better be good" standard that accompanies the feeder school apps. After all, we don't have three SAT prep outfits and a children's yoga joint here in Podunk so, of course, adcoms don't expect 2400 SATs.</p>

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<p>Xig, it has long been my belief that the selection of topic is where many essays first go wrong. </p>

<p>I learned a lot watching my D go through the process and if we had it to do over again, the essays would be a lot better. And I had the benefit of reading some of the better books on the subject, getting input from one of CC's owners, etc. </p>

<p>My advice to students now would be: take not less than three weeks to consider possible essay topics before selecting one and read up on all the essay topic "pitfalls" first. <em>Then</em> start writing the first draft during the summer after junior year. Yeah, I know...nobody every does it.</p>

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<p>I want to second Jonri's description of how this article was pitched, reported and written. Esther and her family may not have known that she was the one the reporter would focus on -- and if you look at all the extras on the Times website, you'll see that the reporter spent time with other girls. Her parents were proud of her essay, and when the reporter asked for it they handed it over. Or perhaps she showed it to the reporter for some feedback, the reporter said it was really good and asked to print it. Also, based on the emails the Times printed, the reporter clearly spent a lot of time at the school and became friends with these girls. </p>

<p>In fact, this article wasn't really about the college application process, it was about being a teen-age girl in a suburban competitive HS. Why is that a story? Because many of the Times readers live in that setting (my only question is why they chose a Boston suburb and not a NYC one to focus on); many of those readers have no idea what it is like to be a teenager in HS today and this opened the window on that world. My local paper ran the article today, and cut out all the college application stuff for space reasons. </p>

<p>My initial comment was that all this criticism was harsh, and I'll repeat that again. I don't think the essay deserves all the venom being heaped on this girl. However, it would have been interesting to explore that essay-writing process in the article, because I'll bet it caused lots of stress with those girls. I know my daughter and her friends agonized over what to write. My daughter must have started 10 essays before she finally found the right one. Thirty years ago, my classmates wrote their college essays right on the application form, no rough drafts. Being told to write that perfect essay, one that captures the essence of their personality, puts these kids under even more stress. </p>

<p>As the mother of a daughter, I enjoyed the article.</p>

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<p>Based on the reaction here(148 posts in one day!!!) it is amazing that any family would allow themselves to be the focus of a human interest story in a national news paper.</p>

<p>I shudder to thing how our family would come across! Yikes!!!!!</p>

<p>This thread merely illustrates how the anomymity of the internet allow the worst parts of our little twisted lives to come out of the shadows.</p>

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<p>"Thirty years ago, my classmates wrote their college essays right on the application form, no rough drafts. Being told to write that perfect essay, one that captures the essence of their personality, puts these kids under even more stress."</p>

<p>Ah the good old days. I'd never laid eyes on me dear alma mater before showing up with by duffle bag to move into the dorm. I picked the school because I liked their stationery better than the other schools'. Proved to be a good choice too. Got a BA, a good wife, and a middling education to boot.</p>

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<p>By the way, I'm curious. How many of the parents who would be "ashamed" to have their child write this essay, also have kids who turned down the chance to take an SAT prep class because morally, they felt taking one would give them an unfair advantage over less advantaged students? How many parents had kids choose to follow their academic passions instead of opting for the AP class that would "look better for college"? How many parents have kids who opt to spend time in faith-based service, and not just because "it will look good for college"?</p>

<p>I'm with Mini. I think Esther sounds like a pretty decent kid, regardless of whether her essay worked or didn't work, or whether some may have been "offended" by her essay topic. </p>

<p>She's 17. She's not perfect. But neither are my kids, nor am I. Let's cut her some slack and move on to other, more useful topics.</p>

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<p>No SAT prep( but not out of some high-minded idea, S wouldn't be caught dead in a prep class :) ) , no AP classes offered by HS( but he did take classes at our uni, but they were the ones he was really interested in) . S used to attend my church's youth group( mainly to keep his best friend company) , but opted out of applying for a scholarship offered by the diocese because he is not sure of his beliefs anymore. One of his friends( equally unsure) didn't hesitate and won a scholarship.
It's probably not Esther's fault, but the way she was portrayed in the article( sophisticated intellectually and spiritually) was in a pretty sharp contrast with the essay( at least for me) . So my reaction was not exactly positive. :) She is probably a very nice girl, but in this instance may have been trying a little bit too hard to satisfy the "amazing" moniker. :)</p>

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<p>Wow, smug, self-satisfied smug CC parents dumping on a 17-year old girl.
This is the most mean-spirited thread i have ever seen on this site, and I really have to wonder about the nastiness anonymity unleashes. Don't most of you have children? Could you try to treat her as if she were your child, and cut her some slack?</p>

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<p>good points all, but we are still missing her gpa -- the NUMBER ONE criteria for acceptance.......hmmmmm</p>

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<p>Carolyn:</p>

<p>I think it's a little unrealistic to expect a college admissions forum to not discuss a major feature story on college admissions in the Sunday New York Times. It's an interesting article.</p>

<p>It's no different than the similar article a couple of years ago that profiled the two NJ kids applying to MIT...one got in, the other didn't. Lots of discussion.</p>

<p>Or the Yale kid whose PR team got a NYTIMES story about his lawsuit against Princeton. Lots of discussion.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Esther’s application to Smith included a letter from her father. He wrote about how, when Esther was a baby, they had gone to his wife’s 10th college reunion. He described the alumni parade as an “angelic procession of women in white, decade by decade, at every stage in the course of human life.”

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Sounds to me like her writing style's a chip off the old clich?'d block.</p>

<p>I especially like the unintended irony implicit in her "True Religion" jeans. Some other highpriced brands are "Seven for All Mankind" and "Imitation of Christ"! Ya gotta love the rag trade for marketing to the PC masses, with or without their own credit cards.:)</p>

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<p>Carolyn, I'm also the parent of a kid who forged her own path through high school, and didn't have the benefit of SAT tutoring... but my kid also developed a list of target colleges that matched her interests. The other kid in the article, Colby, targeted well --- USC (Calif), Tulane, University of Miami, UT. She aimed at colleges where the admissions frenzy isn't too crazy, and where her Boston residence was an advantage. How many apps does USC get each year from Newton? Probably not all that many. </p>

<p>My kid could have gotten rejected last year from Williams, Amherst and Davidson too -- but she didn't put those colleges on her list. She did waste an application on Brown - I told her she had no chance and I wouldn't pay an application fee -- she got a fee waiver from her g.c. followed up by the anticipated rejection letter in the spring. </p>

<p>Esther followed an unorthodox and noncompetitive route and then turned around and applied an orthodox and highly competitive college list: Williams, Amherst, Middlebury. I'm not on the "offensive essay" bandwagon here -- I'm just saying it is an inadequate essay accompanying an inadequate application, in light of the competition applying to the same schools. She will be evaluated in the context of the school she attends, and she could have known going in that she would be overshadowed. So the only possible hope would have been a college application that really plays up her strengths. The essay published in the Times doesn't do that. </p>

<p>I'm sure if you were advising a student like Esther you would have a different set of schools in mind for her. You'd probably also encourage her to write an essay that was geared to "marketing" herself (see <a href="http://collegehunt.blogspot.com/2005/10/thinking-like-marketer.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://collegehunt.blogspot.com/2005/10/thinking-like-marketer.html&lt;/a> ;) )</p>

<p>Again, I think it's great that she got into Smith and I am sure she will do well there. It's just too bad that the family wasted the money on applications to the colleges where she never had a chance -- with a little bit of advice, she could probably could have found colleges that would have been more appreciative of her religious commitment and concerns about fairness. </p>

<p>I don't agree with the bashing, but I think in terms of an objective evaluation - it is a legitimate topic for a college discussion board, and as presented in the paper, the student simply was not competitive or well-matched for the colleges on her list.</p>

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<p>None of us has seen this girl's complete application, nor were we in the admissions committee meeting that discussed her alongside hundreds of other applicants. We may be entitled to opinions about her worthiness for Williams, but there ought to be a huge disclaimer at the foot of every post that tries to sound authoritative. </p>

<p>Did anyone else find it odd that no one from the guidance department at Newton North was mentioned or quoted in an article on the pressure cooker environment of a top high school? My own bit of speculation is that the counseling staff was not in favor of such a piece, expected that it would have negative repercussions for the girls cited, and wouldn't go near it. (Insert disclaimer here - mere speculation on my part.)</p>

<p>And thanks for the 'heads up'. I've never thought it was a great idea to solicit essay advice from an anonymous internet forum but now I have solid evidence it's not the way to go.</p>

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<p>Carolyn,</p>

<p>DS (and we) decided long ago against SAT tutoring. He wanted scores that reflected <em>his</em> abilities, not someone else's. He is a HUGE academic risk-taker and has taken a hit in grades in order to take interesting and challenging classes/research that HE likes, not what looks good to schools. Would rather feed his brain than be the big fish in the local pond, and has been acting on that premise most of his life. He is also heavily involved in religious life, though not in the ways that many of his peers participate.</p>

<p>He's pretty contrarian. Come next year, I think he's going to do just fine.</p>