NY Times article

Parents Forum
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<p>I wasn't going to post, but after reading through the whole of this thread, I also agree that this is quite possibly the most mean-spirited thread I have read here.</p>

<p>When I read the article in the paper, the essay wasn't included. To me, Esther came across as a genuinely intellectually curious, kind, principled young woman. I liked her. The only thing that surprised me was her choice of colleges to apply to. As has been mentioned, these schools didn't seem to fit with the profile which we've been given (admittedly a limited and possibly slanted one.)</p>

<p>As for the essay--once i read it, I was reading it through the lens of the impresson of Esther i already had from the article. I already didn't see her as smug or self-satisfied, superior or contemptful. So perhaps I read it differently.</p>

<p>This is what I think she was trying to say, and I think didn't convey well:</p>

<p><kentucky has="" always="" struck="" me="" as="" slow="" and="" tradition="" bound.="" i="" couldn't="" imagine="" myself="" living="" there.="" newton="" is="" full="" of="" energy="" focus,="" but="" lacks="" any="" sense="" grounding.="" at="" least,="" this="" how="" it="" feels="" to="" me.="" i'd="" like="" find="" a="" place="" which="" both,="" the="" grounding="" when="" visit="" my="" family="" in="" kentucky,="" outward="" upward="" focus="" that="" impelled="" forward="" newton--could="" williams="" be="" place?=""></kentucky></p>

<p>I don't think she showed that well. But i think that was what she was striving for. Considering what we read about her, and that both of her parents are Kentucky natives, and that her grandparents all live there, and that Center accepted her, I think that interpretation makes the most sense.</p>

<p>I think her admissions decisions represented more a mismatch, and a possible over-reach considering the high-powered school she came from, rather than a slap down for an impudent 17 year old.</p>

<p>But that's okay--she got that here on CC instead.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
How many of the parents who would be "ashamed" to have their child write the essay, also have kids who turned down the chance to take an SAT prep class because morally, they felt taking one would give them an unfair advantage over less advantaged students?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>My first son did not take prep classes, and my younger one, who has the most to gain I guess, will not either, though we can very easily afford it.</p>

<p>We turned down a merit scholarship at my younger son's school because we can afford full tuition, and felt it should go to a family in need.</p>

<p>We could well afford a private college counselor. Needless to say, we will not be using one. Also, needless to say, my son will be writing his own essay (and neither my husband or I will take advantage of the "benefit of reading some of the better books on the subject").</p>

<p>My kid is taking the max number of AP's offered for his year simply because that's where the challenge is--not for college packaging.</p>

<p>I could care less about this girl's worthiness for Williams or Middlebury, which seems to be the focus of much of the discussion. Frankly, I think a year at UMass Amherst would serve her well (a touch of the real world). </p>

<p>I read her essay several times. It's not so much the elitism or snobbery in the girl's essay that bothered me (which could be caused by a sheltered environment). It's the sense of entitlement. It's the sense that THE most important thing for her, and everyone around her, is that she find THE right place for her amazing, unique person to blossom. Of course, as we all know, there are thousands of these amazing creatures out there. I'd like to think they grow out of their self-centered sense of entitlement, but I tend to doubt it.</p>

<p>My guess is so many people are defensive about this girl because her story cuts too close to home.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
My first son did not take prep classes, and my younger one, who has the most to gain I guess, will not either, though we can very easily afford it.</p>

<p>We could well afford a private college counselor. Needless to say, we will not be using one. Also, needless to say, my son will be writing his own essay (and neither my husband or I will take advantage of the "benefit of reading some of the better books on the subject").

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</p>

<p>How do your sons feel about these restrictions? Do they agree with you or do they resent not being allowed to take advantage of services such as SAT prep courses?</p>

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<p>They don't even think about it, because my husband and I are not raising our kids in the college-focus-pressure cooker. Mainly I read this board to see how over-the-top it gets (like 103 posts about 7th grade Algebra).</p>

<p>I'll admit to doubts at times about whether we are doing the right thing; but fundamentally I don't think my husband and I could do it any other way.</p>

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<p>I am most definitely not defensive about this girl because her story cuts too close to home. My daughter's HS is not anything like Newton, and her HS experience not like it either. Perhaps I'm defensive because I am a woman and I remember what it's like being a teenager and because my daughter is a senior in HS like Esther. I never got the sense from either the story or the essay that Esther feels entitled. She recovered from her Williams rejection quickly. Never once did she say she "deserved" to go to an elite school. I think you are reading much more into that essay than Esther ever intended you to. </p>

<p>I interpreted the essay the exact same way Garland did. I'll bet what happened is that her initial essay didn't go on as much about Kentucky, and someone (an English teacher? parent? friend?) told her she needed to showcase her writing more and encouraged her to expand the Kentucky section and explain more of what she meant.</p>

<p>I'll bet if the Times wanted to find smug snobbish girls at Newton, they could have. Esther just wasn't like that. Geez, she wears sweats and moccasins to school. Remember, it was the Times that called them "amazing girls." I truly doubt that Esther and her friends walk arm-in-arm down Newton's halls declaring themselves "amazing."</p>

<p>I see these high-powered girls at my daughter's HS -- they excel in school, do every activity, and totally dominate the more laid-back boys. They are amazing. And yes, I see them getting poor college advice just like Esther got. </p>

<p>One of my daughter's best friends got into Smith and I think it would be great if she and Esther became friends.</p>

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<p>I think it's a little unrealistic to expect a college admissions forum to not discuss a major feature story on college admissions in the Sunday New York Times. It's an interesting article.</p>

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<p>The article is indeed interesting, and I wish discussing the article had been the focus of this discussion because the article was NOT about her essay. And, as a parent myself, I am very disappointed that other parents feel it is necessary to resort to personal attacks on a teen - any teen. I think that's the shameful thing. Discuss her essay? Perhaps, but use some common sense and sensivity about it, and keep in mind that none of us knows her personally or knows what she intended to say in the essay. In short, treat her as we would want our own children to be treated. That's the guiding principle I use when working with 17 year olds.</p>

<p>How about this -- why doesn't everyone post THEIR children's college essays here and let the kind parents of CC discuss them? That would CERTAINLY be educational, and help us all "learn" from each other. (And, please, don't tell me that her parents allowed her essay to be published. They're both from Kentucky and they obviously weren't embarrassed by her essay. I'm sure many of us also think our kids essays were great, and would be happy to share them here, not thinking what might happen.)</p>

<p>First taker?</p>

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<p>Neither of my S's took SAT prep classes(no desire to take one). One did very well and the other did very average(maybe below average depending on where you live), which is exactly the type of students they are. Their SAT scores were a perfect reflection of everything they have ever done in school. I will say that S1 took the old SAT while S2 took the new. Don't know if that made any big difference.
If S2 (the average guy) had taken a prep class that resulted in a big boost in his scores, how would that have helped him if the resultant score had landed him in a college that is academically above his true abilities?<br>
No, he will not even go to our flagship state u because he won't get in. We are OK with that. Hopefully he'll end up at a place that fits his average student needs because that's what he is, no ribbons, bows or fancy packaging required.</p>

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<p>Now we're even called upon to interpret the girl's essay in order to put her character in the best possible light. It's my understanding that the essay is designed to highlight the most personal qualities of an applicant, which may not come through in the other components.</p>

<p>It is what it is. People are also free to interpret it as they wish because her parents signed off for their minor child in agreeing to splash it on the front page of the Times.</p>

<p>Discussions around the anonymous kitchen tables of America are not much different than discussions on an anonymous message board. I happen to doubt she and her friends care about what some old-fogey parents with some idle time on their hands have to say about her essay here.</p>

<p>If they do, perhaps they should clue in their parents that maybe their choice was not a good idea and make sure other parents learn from their mistake.</p>

<p>I wouldn't post my kid's essay here; but then again, I wouldn't hand it over to the Times either (or any other publication).</p>

<p>P.S. I've seen young posters here practically bludgeoned to death over their views and writing styles. Few people voiced a problem with that.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
How many of the parents who would be "ashamed" to have their child write this essay, also have kids who turned down the chance to take an SAT prep class because morally, they felt taking one would give them an unfair advantage over less advantaged students? How many parents had kids choose to follow their academic passions instead of opting for the AP class that would "look better for college"? How many parents have kids who opt to spend time in faith-based service, and not just because "it will look good for college"?

[/quote]
I'd be ashamed, both because of its attitude & the poor writing. I highly doubt I could drag my D kicking & screaming to an SAT prep class, but I'm not thinking she'd be facing a "moral" dilemma because the class would give her an advantage. In every endeavor she's taken on, she faces kids with both greater advantages and greater obstacles to overcome. That's life. Her courses do reflect her academic passion & were chosen to give her challenges & push herself, not please any admissions couselors. She's always involved in faith-based service & does it because she loves it. Tutoring inner city kids, fundraising, homeless outreach, stocking shelters. Her Catholic school steeps the girls in faith-based action. It's part of who they are. The message of being greatful for privilege, of being girls of whom much is expected because much has been given, is delivered on a daily basis.</p>

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<p>Adcoms know very well who has likely taken SAT prep classes and who has not. The applicant's zip code is a good clue. Unfair advantage? One could argue that those who live in the SAT prep expected zip code and don't have SAT prep are the ones with the unfair disadvantage.</p>

<p>By the way, I liked Esther a lot. I think she was down to Earth and was portrayed as an all around good kid with good values. Clearly her Smith/Harvard educated parents didn't know a lot about the application process today. I doubt they read boards such as CC; in fact, her Dad didn't even realize that a thin letter meant rejection as he excitedly brought the Wiliams one to meet Esther in school. True, her essay could have portrayed her in a better light, but it's doubtful that much of anyone gave her good advice. Did that keep her out? I suspect that the more driven students/parents at her school got the "elite" acceptances - with a lot more help from Mom, Dad and whoever else.</p>

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<p>As someone who mildly suggested early in this thread that the Times was a little off in its perception and that the essay, not shown in the printed article, had at least some merit, something else now occurs to me. This surprisingly long thread has taken on the mode and tone of Mean Girls, a movie starring Lindsay Lohan at her best and oen that my D and I both really like. I suspect that a lot of posters on this thread would neither admit to watching Mean Girls nor to liking it. </p>

<p>In any event I am very glad that garland and carolyn and others went further than I did (and I wish I had been more forthright) and showed their understanding of kindness in general and remembered that the subjects of this article are in fact somebody's children, and in my opinion pretty nice ones at that.</p>

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<p>My daughter and Esther come from two different worlds. We are as middle class as you get: we live in the south, she attends an “average” inner city public school, and buys her jeans at Target. </p>

<p>But like Esther, my daughter didn’t take an SAT prep course, doesn’t have a credit card, takes her faith seriously and spent the Saturday night before she read the article volunteering at the homeless shelter downtown.</p>

<p>My daughter, who applied to one of the LACs to which Esther did, read the printed NY Times article before I did and said, “Mom, I hope she gets in. She sounds like someone I’d like to know.”</p>

<p>I’ve been disturbed (to put it mildly) by the tone and name calling in some of these posts by anonymous parents toward a teenage girl. I’m going to give them a sincere benefit of the doubt, unlike that which was extended to Esther, that they are not as “yucky” as they come across in print. </p>

<p>Thank goodness for some of the more recent posts by Jonri, Carolyn, sly_vt, garland and twinmom, to name a few.</p>

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<p>F.Y.I.: I'd never heard of Esther's jean brand before. I googled it & found the prices ranged from $172 to $262.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The article is indeed interesting, and I wish discussing the article had been the focus of this discussion because the article was NOT about her essay. And, as a parent myself, I am very disappointed that other parents feel it is necessary to resort to personal attacks on a teen - any teen. I think that's the shameful thing. Discuss her essay? Perhaps, but use some common sense and sensivity about it, and keep in mind that none of us knows her personally or knows what she intended to say in the essay. In short, treat her as we would want our own children to be treated. That's the guiding principle I use when working with 17 year olds.</p>

<p>How about this -- why doesn't everyone post THEIR children's college essays here and let the kind parents of CC discuss them? That would CERTAINLY be educational, and help us all "learn" from each other. (And, please, don't tell me that her parents allowed her essay to be published. They're both from Kentucky and they obviously weren't embarrassed by her essay. I'm sure many of us also think our kids essays were great, and would be happy to share them here, not thinking what might happen.)</p>

<p>First taker?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Carolyn, I very rarely have had to disagree with you, but this is not right. </p>

<p>For starters, the discussion on CC was a direct result of the original post and the discussion was first and foremost about the essay. The direction was set from post 1. While a few people appraised the lack of sensitivity displayed IN the essay, others discussed the merit of the essay itself. In my eyes, one can discuss the essay and offer a negative opinion of the work and NEVER attack the author. Many people seem unable to make that distinction.</p>

<p>Further, this forum is about the exchange of opinions. In this regard, I find the holier than thou attitude remarkably more annoying than the over-judgmental posts. </p>

<p>Fwiw, I completely disagree that this story "magically" appeared in the NYTimes. Pretending that it was printed without the full approval of the parents, the students, and the school is pure non-sense. The reality is that people do SEEK to participate in such stories for an elusive Warhol-like 15 minutes of fame. </p>

<p>However, when the story does not turn out as planned, the objections start to fly. Here's what I think: the parents of the girl, probably blinded by theri own collection of degrees, NEVER thought that .. rejections might come. Not much different from thinking that the essay was remarkable. Remarkable enough to share via the world ... forever -thanks to the power of the internet. And, as far as "I'm sure many of us also think our kids essays were great, and would be happy to share them here, not thinking what might happen" ... "What might happen" IS something educated parents should have thought about! Who else is there to blame? And, for that matter, the parents do not live in some backwater state and are well edcuated: they should have known better!</p>

<p>How many similar stories have we seen? Remember the Virginia student in USA Today? In the end, there are a couple of conclusions we can draw from this story. The first one is technical and is about the essay. We have beaten that one to death. The second one is about WILLFULLY participate with the press in college admission stories and put YOUR children entire life on DISPLAY for a small trip down ego-boosting alley! And yes, that is WHAT it is. All the parents had to do was to answer with a firm NO. Hell NO! The first rule of privacy is to remain private.</p>

<p>It WAS that simple!</p>

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<p>Maybe I read the article wrong, but my impression was that she took a SAT course. She drew the line at a tutor's private lessons- likely a couple thousand bucks more. I think that's where choice is in communities like this one today.
I had more problems with the tone of the article than I did with the young lady. How wonderful everything is in a place like Newton- enlightened people, intellectual teens, terrific teachers, blah blah blah. Lots and lots of money...and money is good!</p>

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<p>mattmom: If you think this thread has taken on the tone of Mean Girls, you've missed an awful lot of threads here on CC.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
All the parents had to do was to answer with a firm NO. Hell NO! The first rule of privacy is to remain private.

[/quote]
My friend had an interesting situation with a major dance publicatio. Her son was recovering from an injury, and the teacher arranged for a "Can he make a comeback for the World Championship?" feature. My friend completely took control, refusing to have a pity party for her son played out in the story to sell magazines. She agreed to the interview with the understanding that details of the injury were to be kept vague, with a sentence or two about the boy being hopeful he's back in shape and a word of advice to fellow dancers: take the rest & recovery time your doc orders. </p>

<p>My friend was weighing even whether or not to go along with it at all, but she knew the article would be a way to do the "bragging" about her kid that would seem obnoxious to a college admissions staff if it came from the boy. The article makes him seem like the second coming, but every quote from the son is modest. (He's is modest to a fault, simply not allowed to get a big head in that household.) So if anyone is considering giving in to the press temptation, make sure you are in the driver's seat. Rarely do the kids come across very well.</p>

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<p>This seems to me to be a fairly common view of life outside of the normal cc way of doing things. A high school kid who is involved in many activities, probably has a decent GPA, doesn’t take an SAT prep class and probably didn’t write the best essay. She did some research about colleges and discovered some that interested her. Some accepted her and some didn’t. Sounds like about 95% of the high school kids I have met to this point.</p>

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<p>AND she got a good result.</p>

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<p>Hereshoping--Every reading of this essay is interpreting. Every reading of each post is interpreting. Every reading of the article is interpreting.</p>

<p>It's not too much to ask; it's inevitable. We don't differ in interpreting or not; we differ in how we do it.</p>