<p>Circumstantial evidence is evidence. Actually, it’s very good evidence. And, that was a domestic violence murder with Scott Peterson being the obvious suspect complete with pretty blond mistress and ridiculous tape recorded lies for an alibi. It’s not similar at all in any possible way to this case.</p>
<p>Ok… That 's too bad .</p>
<p>All great suggestions poetgrl. No, I don’t think Jackie’s case is hopeless if true. If one of the students she contacted immediately after her rape steps forward then that might help. Maybe, she is lucky someone has a video of the party and it just so happens, in the video, she is seen running down the staris. All is not lost.</p>
<p>She might have a case based on witness testimony. One of the rapists might have bragged about his crime. Somebody else at the frat house might have seen something. One of the rapists might flip in exchange for a reduced sentence. Eventually one of the three “friends” might talk. It’s not impossible to make a case. [All assuming the story is true.]</p>
<p>Amen Poetgrl. All of this sickens me to the core. I’m a strong woman and I’ve raised a strong bright daughter, but I honestly don’t know what I would have done had this happened to me at 18 years old. This attack would be hard to deal with as a 48 year old. I’m trying hard to remember myself as a naïve 18 year old. I would have been so scared of people judging me and my parents being disappointed in me because I trusted a guy I liked . Of course the right thing to do is to go to the police, but that’s not always the easiest thing to do. We make so many excuses for our teenagers(I’ve been a teacher for 20 years- I’ve heard them all) yet we expect this girl to know exactly what to do in a horrific situation. I sincerely hope “Jackie” finds peace and I sincerely hope those 7 “men” never know a moment’s peace.</p>
<p>Well, if nothing else, I bet they are shaking in their shoes right now. </p>
<p>I hope she gives the name of the one with the bottle. He will turn evidence for a deal.</p>
<p>I want those men to go to prison. For a very long time. I can’t imagine such animals never raped again. I hope all these girls go to the police and report names. I would be surprised if one or two don’t come up again.</p>
<p>That said, I want to say, as hard as this thread is, and as horrible as this story is, I think we are at least finally beginning to reach the end of the idea that this only happens on this campus or that campus, or that is one isolated incident.</p>
<p>year after year these things happen on campuses all over this country and college officials cover it up, or put band aids on an open heart wound. At this point, we can no longer act like we don’t know. </p>
<p>Maybe the fact that college after college is being revealed to have this issue will allow the colleges themselves to stop pretending that they aren’t and start to fix what has been so obviously in front of them for so long.</p>
<p>These girls are very brave, braver than most of us will know, now the police and the administrators need to get some heart, too, and say the truth, hard as the truth is, to us all. “We have a huge rape problem on our campuses and we don’t know what to do to make it stop.”</p>
<p>This would be the start of finding a solution that really works.</p>
<p>I too believe that it would have been possible to pursue a case against Jackie’s rapists even if some time had passed. There may not have been enough for an immediate arrest, but what does it take to investigate - speak to the members of the frat, call in Drew,the rapist Jackie recognized, and the people she spoke to immediately after the rape In fact, I’m not sure authorities couldn’t pursue it NOW. But I would never blame a victim for not reporting, or presume to know what I would do in that situation, especially given how victims are often treated by police.</p>
<p>I agree with others that prosecuting rape is hard. The dismal arrest and conviction rate for rape isn’t simply a product of misogyny or “rape culture;” we can’t just throw people into jail, or even out of college, without something more than a woman’s word. On the other hand, that doesn’t mean it is OK for authorities to make a blanket policy of assuming every rape claim is impossible to prove, either. Somehow, crimes got prosecuted and convicted before the days of DNA evidence; not having a rape kit isn’t always essential.</p>
<p>One of the things that makes me so uncomfortable about all of this is that I’m not actually sure that there’s a legislative answer. At a certain point, even when you have good laws and systems, fairness depends on a certain amount of good will and common sense. If authorities - whether in the police or in a college - are inclined to be automatically suspicious of rape claims and treat every accusation as “one of those ambiguous situations” that couldn’t possibly be proven (and would cause bad press for the school to boot), even pretty clear cut cases aren’t going to get adequately adjudicated. Yet neither can victim advocates assume that the only appropriate response is a finding of guilt, or that it is never appropriate to ask real questions of an accuser. The problem at UVA isn’t that they used “clear and convincing” rather than “preponderance of evidence,” or that they thought it was OK to ask victims if they had initiated some portion of the encounter. It is that they clearly have been acting in bad faith for years, determined to sweep everything under the rug. </p>
<p>LE must create the same environment for rape victims as for victims of robbery, etc. who never feel ashamed to go to the police. And women need to know that in going to the police they are protecting other women who could be the future victims of these perpetrators. If the woman at Liberty University or at Newport had pressed their rape charges against Jesse Matthew, Hannah Graham could be alive today. If the first Bill Cosby victim had pressed charges, there wouldn’t be a string of traumatized women today. </p>
<p>I don’t know how many of the posters on here have been victims of crime or closely involved in a crime but your reaction may not be what you think it would be when you are in the thick of it. Victimization is a long journey just like dealing with a death of a loved one. It doesn’t ever fully go away. Also don’t count on victims of other crimes that turned their life upside down being so talkative about it you might be surprised. </p>
<p>My H is watching a movie I haven’t seen. It is called “High Plains Drifter”. The character Clint Eastwood is playing just raped a woman. I hope young boys watching the movie realize that it was a rape scene. There is a scene in the movie “Skyfall” that bothers me. James Bond enters a woman’s room uninvited and steps inside the shower stall while she is showering and yet it is a highly-rated movie. Movies like the ones I cited will confuse some young people or perverted old people out there. </p>
<p>I was thinking about rape and film just last night. </p>
<p>I have been wondering if things were the same when I went to college in the late 60s and 70s. We use to hitchhike for pete sake! I certainly wrestled on dates, but my sense was that there was less overt misogyny, rather a more secure patriarchy. But I was speculating. Then I watch the Beatle’s movie Help (1965) with my younger daughter. Now Help has race and gender issues, but the ever so popular Beatles are singing “you better treat her right” and “I need somebody, not just anybody.” </p>
<p>Contrast the teen culture represented by the Beatles with the teen culture represented by rap, war games, Hunger Games. There is a shift. Certainly the underside of my teen culture existed, but it went to revolution drugs (Jefferson Airplane), revolution (Dylan) or the rare vengeance killing (Hendrix’s Hey, Joe). The early Bond films are rated PG.</p>
<p>During her fresh orientation session on this, my D says this is what her university calls “gray rape”. Two intoxicated kids end up having sex. Was there consent? If they both are in such an intoxicated state it becomes a he said/she said. </p>
<p><<what is="" happening="" here="" that="" it="" too="" difficult="" for="" the="" law="" to="" distinguish="" between="" some="" forms="" of="" consensual="" activity="" (e.g.,="" both="" male="" and="" female="" are="" drunk="" ‘decide’="" in="" their="" impaired="" state="" engage="" sex)="" from="" rape="" trashed="" relatively="" sober="" takes="" advantage="" it).="" so="" solution="" put="" forth="" criminalize="" might="" resemble="" a="" 3rd="" party="" wasn’t="" there="" then="" trust="" females="" won’t="" rely="" on="" when="" unethical="" do="" so.="">></what></p>
<p>Exactly! It’s called “gray-rape” (as stated in my above post)</p>
<p>I understand absolutely why ANYONE would not report rape. There are a lot of horrible crimes that have issues that make it difficult for the victim to report it. </p>
<p>I’ve said it before–stranger rape, I’d report in an instant. Date rape, friend rape, family rape, would be more difficult, and in some cases, I don’t think I could. Gang rape brings a whole other element into the mix. Being a rape victim is making oneself a pariah of sorts. That’s the way society views rape. Changing slowly, but still that is there. </p>
<p>The woman who was raped in Fairfax some years ago by JM, did go for help, report the rape, and the reports are that she will come to court to testify about it. It appears she is from a culture where it is truly an issue when one has been raped. Unusual case, brave woman. The PTS of the violation is such that some victims cannot report it. Which is why friends and those who find out should be supportive in the reporting. I’m still shaking my head over those friends of “Jackie”. They should have reported it themselves the instant she told her story. That the victim might not want to do so, yes, I get it. But friends? Three of them? None of them phoned 911 immediately? That would have resulted in the catch of that gang. Would have been danged hard to explain why all their semen is in one girl. </p>
<p>But that was then, and it’s now. Has horrible as this is, as difficult as it is to report, I would not support any curtailing of the rights of the accused. I think the results of not keeping the standards of evidence in law, the presumption of innocence would be far more disasterous. </p>
<p>The Rolling Stone article was disturbing, but reading some of the posts on College Confidential is even more disturbing. Some of them are based in parents’ fears that their sons are going to be wrongly accused of rape at college, or that their sons will actually participate in rapes when they are surrounded by a culture that seems to tacitly approve. There are a lot of defensive comments suggesting we should not single out UVA because other colleges and universities deal with things the same way. It is true they are not the only university that responds to fraternity and athlete rapes, even gang-rapes, with silencing of the victim. That does not make it a bad idea to hold them up as an example of a school to which you would never want to send your daughter, because it would break your heart to see this happen to her, and you would never want to send your son, either, because there would be a shadow on the reputation of UVA graduates. This should definitely hurt UVA. It should also alert parents to the need to raise the topic with their children before they head off to college. It needs to start somewhere.</p>
<p>I think it’s good to always look at journalism for what it is - one reporters story. The purpose is to illicit the most emotion and connection as possible. In some ways I think our kids are more balanced because they have grown up in an area of viral videos and rapid fire editorialism while we grew up in an era where journalism strived to be unbiased with the exception of editorials which were clearly marked editorial. Everyone here reads what they read, internalizes it and develops their own thoughts and opinions. Think back to the lengthy Penn State thread or the Duke thread, these threads on rape/sexual misconduct are very similar. If I had anymore kids to send to college would I send them to UVa or Occidental or HWS…sure I would. </p>
<p>Uhhhhh … It is not just a journalist’s story. Other students and alumni are coming out and saying they were raped or know people that were. </p>
<p>There is a cry to change the culture.</p>
<p><a href=“UVA Contends With Outrage Over Horrific Rape Reports | Time”>http://time.com/3601041/university-virginia-outrage-rape/</a></p>
<p><a href=“Rape at UVA: Readers Say Jackie Wasn’t Alone – Rolling Stone”>http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/rape-at-uva-readers-say-jackie-wasnt-alone-20141121</a></p>
<p>“Mad UVA Mom
I went to UVA in the early Eighties and I can tell you that although the administration has changed and Charlottesville has grown in the last 30 years, the culture sounds exactly the same as it always has – right down to the same fraternities with the same reputation. Even then we had a fraternity we called “the coke-bottle rapists” and knew to stay away from that house. That was 1980. Maybe these are the sons of those guys?”</p>
<p>It certainly is one reporter’s story, unless more than one reporter contributed. I’m not passing judgement on what part is truth and what part is embellishment…not going there. Let’s hope that all these people with claims are part of the police investigation. Awareness is also powerful. </p>