NYC colleges with music major/less competitive auditions or no auditions

College Majors Music Major
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<p>My daughter is 16 years old and has been studying dance intensively since she was a young girl. She moved to NYC at 15 to study ballet and modern dance full-time at a residential program. She is also an accomplished tap dancer, who has had professional opportunities in teaching and performing, and belongs to a NYC tap company.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, since she has begun to study ballet and modern full-time, she has begun to experience recurrent injuries. For over a year now, she has had to modify her movements in ballet and modern dance class- but not in tap dance. Tap dance does not hurt her. Her goals of attending a NYC college for a BFA in dance are seeming less and less likely as her injuries persist. (Believe me we've seen many top doctors, physical therapists, acupuncturists, massage professionals- she just is just never injury-free.)</p>

<p>Okay, here's the question part: My daughter was also quite a good drummer before she left to live in NYC for dance so she reads music and plays an instrument (but she has only taken a few lessons since then), and she has expressed an interest in studying music in college instead of getting a BFA in dance. She feels that having a complete understanding of music would benefit her greatly in her tap teaching and dancing career, which she fully anticipates. However, she is not a highly accomplished musician and she would not be able to compete with very highly accomplished drummers in an audition, or at least it wouldn't be easy for her. She is willing to take private drum lessons for the next however long so she can make an attempt to audition, but we wanted to know are there any NYC colleges that offer a BA in music without an audition? Are they decent programs? Can anyone list a specific program?</p>

<p>Also, are there NYC schools where she could get a BFA that are easier to get into by audition than others? If so, what are they? Are there any BFAs without auditions in NYC? How about programs where you can start out in BA and audition partway through college and switch to at the BFA? Anywhere within an hour commute to the city would be fine. The closer to the city the better.</p>

<p>I appreciate your help. I know a lot about dance colleges, but this is totally new to me.</p>

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<p>For most BA music programs (although not 100%) there is no audition required, at least not as a freshman. I don’t know what her grades are like, but you might want to look at Barnard and Sarah Lawrence.</p>

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<p>Near the end of your post, are you referring to a BFA in dance, or a degree in music? Most music performance degrees are BM’s. It is not clear if you mean to ask about dance BFA programs or not.</p>

<p>A BA in music is generally an academic degree, though there is some performance at many schools, and even a lot of performance at some. But mainly, BA students study music history, theory and ear-training, ethnomusicology, score analysis, composition, technology in music, and so on.</p>

<p>For a BA program, you apply to the college, not specifically for music, though an arts supplement will help. So, believe it or not, if your daughter wants to get into the school, and study music, she could submit an arts supplement with dance videos and nothing musical at all!</p>

<p>I have two daughters: one is a composer, the other a dancer who also left the local high school to dance. Feel free to PM me. I was going to mention the same schools as Spirit Manager, and would add Vassar. If these schools are reaches, we can suggest others.</p>

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<p>I guess I really need more information. What is the difference between a BM and a BFA? I think I understand what a BA in music is now.</p>

<p>Her goals in studying music would be for her to gain a more complete understanding of the music that she tap dances to so that it will be easier to perform and to choreograph- I’m not certain which degree would be best for this. Also, she loves jazz and I think she would be very happy in a jazz studies program. I mentioned the fact that she is a drummer so that she could consider all types of programs; it is just that her ability in drum set will not be as high as people who have studied it nonstop and intensely. Therefore, if she was going to attend a performance-based program with an audition she would need to go to a place where it is not extremely competitive to get in.</p>

<p>How difficult is the New School Jazz and Contemporary Program to get accepted into? How competitive is the audition? I read about that program and I think she would love it. Are there any other jazz studies programs that you know of? </p>

<p>Her grades are excellent because she is a perfectionist, but she really isn’t a scholarly type. She would enjoy a more performance-based program- we had always planned for her to get a BFA in dance rather than a BA. I really think she’d much prefer a lower level, easier to be accepted into BFA type of program to a BA at a highly rated liberal arts college.</p>

<p>I appreciate the help.</p>

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<p>Any chance your daughter will recover/get over her injury-prone state after the teen years have passed? All three of my daughters were injury-prone in their late teens. One of them was a state track champion already in 9th grade, but was injured for most of the rest of her high school years and could not get an athletic scholarship where she wanted to go. Now at 21, she could run again if she wanted to. But running was never going to be her career.</p>

<p>Your daughter might want to attend school somewhere she can start dancing again if she is able.</p>

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<p>Check out Manhattanville. I have a family friend whose daughter was a decent violinist but not all state level who received a small music scholarship. It’s close to NYC and has a less competitive music program and would be an easier academic admit than NYU, Vassar, etc.</p>

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<p>First, your daughter is young and many changes may be ahead. Few of us can plan our lives in advance, and disciplines like dance and music often demand that mind set at an age that would otherwise be too young. These pursuits also demand a lot from parents (money, driving) and it can be hard for us to adjust when the path needs adjustment.</p>

<p>Just to clarify: a music performance degree is generally a Bachelor of Music, BM. Dance degrees, and visual arts, re BFA’s. Musical theater degrees are also BFA’s. I have seen a BFA in music, but I cannot remember where: it is not common.</p>

<p>I think woodwind raises a good point. During early adolescence, bones grow faster than muscles and tendons, and there can a lot of problems for dancers who are dancing frequently, and pointe is a real problem too. My daughter saw the physical therapist from Boston Ballet (not at BB, at a hospital) who told me she should only dance 1-2 times/week when in a growth spurt, and should not do pointe until 14 or 15. This effectively kept her out of the ballet track, with its intense requirements, but she has danced seriously anyway.</p>

<p>Is it possible, now that your daughter is 16, that she could start doing the other forms of dance again? She could just do barre, and gentle modern classes, to start, along with yoga or Pilates. Forgive me, she may already be doing these things, or they may truly not be possible. Clearly you have a lot of experts involved. But now that she is older and more mature, perhaps there are other avenues in dance that she could explore. The kind of ballet program she was in tends to create an attitude of “making it” or not, but the dance world is not really like that.</p>

<p>As for college, which will not be a serious concern for another year or so, I presume: your daughter needs to know that a BM is a very intense course of study, with serious theory and history classes, and so on. It is a difficult major, and, in some schools, is compared to premed science. It sounds to me like she could benefit from a course or two in music, that might be geared to her interests, but probably would not want to do intense studies in music. Unless she takes lessons and somehow takes off.</p>

<p>As she nears college age, perhaps she will have done more music (have her enroll in a theory or jazz theory class at a conservatory prep, to see how she likes it) or perhaps she will find another interest to pursue. Or perhaps she will want to go to a college as an undecided, and do tap on the side.</p>

<p>A kid who has been intensely involved in dance, at a young age, may sometimes need to take a break entirely to reorient herself. Be prepared for that possibility. High school kids often change a lot in a short period of time, and can show a hunger for any number of pursuits. So if she really cannot dance ballet or modern, try to see that as a positive, and convey excitement about the fact that, without the need to dance every day to stay in shape (a kind of servitude that dancers and musicians are familiar with), there are all kinds of possibilities before her. </p>

<p>If she is still dancing, whether tap or other forms, there are many ways to go to college.
One option is for her to take p/t college courses, say, at the New School, or community college, or anywhere really, while continuing to dance. Or online courses. You generally can take classes anywhere up to 75-90 credits, when you have to commit to a school for the degree residency requirements. A lot of dancers do this. One or two classes, leaves a lot of time for dance.</p>

<p>I would repeat that Sarah Lawrence or Bennington might work for her. Tap would not be available though. I don’t know what her injuries are, specifically, but find it hard to believe that certain college modern dance studies would be impossible for her. Would she enjoy a creative, interdisciplinary approach to dance, such as is offered at those two schools, and others? At LAC’s like Bennington and Sarah Lawrence, you can also study music and connect those studies to dance, with an advisor to help guide you. I know that at Bennington, you could connect dance to sculpture, or biology (forms in nature), or literature (story-telling) or math (patterns). You get the idea. The dance is not strenuous physically, but is demanding intellectually.</p>

<p>And there are college programs with tap: here is a link to a discussion of this:
[College</a> for tap dance? - Yahoo! Answers](<a href=“Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos”>Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos)</p>

<p>I strongly recommend the book “Creative Colleges,” which lists all schools with music, dance, theater, visual arts and writing programs, as well as Dance Magazine’s college guide. A subscription to Dance Magazine can help widen vistas in dance. At the same time, I hope your daughter can use the time she now has, now that she is not in an intensive program, to better know herself and what her interests are. (Speaking as a parent who has been there.)</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>Thanks for the great answers. I wrote a really detailed response and some how it didn’t post so this one is more concise.</p>

<p>We want a strong back up plan for my daughter in the event her injuries persist through next summer. So, where she needs an excellent understanding of music for her tap dance career, would a BA in Music be sufficient? </p>

<p>Bennington would be great, but she will only consider NYC schools because she is in a tap company and has many teaching and performing opportunities there. Sarah Lawrence is a possibility. Manhattanville is also a possibility, but how advanced do you have to be to audition there, would a year and a half of brush-up be sufficient?</p>

<p>Here are some other schools that I have looked at online: Hunter College, City College of New York, Brooklyn College, Long Island University Brooklyn campus, New School’s Eugene Lang has a concentration in music, and Manhattan College. (Most of these schools also have dance programs with modern so if she was up to it she could take some dance, too.) Has anyone heard about if these schools have a BA in Music, how the program is, or if it is a BM how competitive are the auditions at these schools? She’d really enjoy being in a performance-based program, so are any of these “un-selective” enough for a decent but not amazing instrumentalist? Are there any other BA in Music/BM schools in NYC that you know of that would fit our needs?</p>

<p>One school I know she would love is the New School for Jazz and Contemporary Music, because she loves jazz so much and a respected peer of hers goes there. How difficult is the audition? How selective is the school?</p>

<p>Thank you to all who have helped us.</p>

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<p>Your daughter sounds very talented. I hope she recovers.</p>

<p>As for as the New School, I only know about the classical program, Mannes, because it’s what my daughter does. On classical saxophone it is very competitive, and I assume that the jazz program is equally competitive. However, your daughter could find out more by getting a lesson from someone in the department.</p>

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<p>New School for Jazz percussion would be very competitive. Manhattanville should be doable with a year and a half brush up.</p>

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<p>SUNY Purchase is right up the road from Manahattanville, but it may be more competitive than she is looking for.</p>

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<p>Marymount Manhattan, on the East Side, has a good dance program. Their music department does not offer a major but does offer courses: [Music</a> - Marymount Manhattan College](<a href=“http://www.mmm.edu/cgi-bin/MySQLdb?MYSQL_VIEW=/study/programs/view.txt&currentdept=1066]Music”>http://www.mmm.edu/cgi-bin/MySQLdb?MYSQL_VIEW=/study/programs/view.txt&currentdept=1066) How about Fordham? Wagner is another interesting school. [url=&lt;a href=“Google”&gt;Google]Google[/url</a>]</p>

<p>Students spend years studying and performing music w/the same intensity our daughters have approached dance. Some make a transition to another discipline, but I think it would be hard in just a year or two, for a BM program, and think maybe a BA program that is flexible might suit her needs the most.</p>

<p>Does she think she will do tap outside of school, in addition to school? If she does a lot of dance, meaning classes, rehearsals and performances, does she want to take part-time classes rather than full-time attendance on campus? Does she want a campus experience?</p>

<p>Learning about music in order to enhance tap dance will not require the kind of music study involved in a music major, BA or BM, but maybe she will love the music study in and of itself. Again, I would see if she likes a theory class, either at a conservatory prep program or online. That would give a taste of what music courses are like.</p>

<p>You have a lot of time to see how her interests pan out in the next year or two.</p>

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<p>As other have pointed out, BM programs (bachelors, performance) are competitive admits at the top tier and lower tier schools as well. in jazz or classical. I can’t give much on dance (only knowing it is as insane as a lot of music is these days, from an early age), and I can only hope your D is able to get through the injuries.</p>

<p>Given what you are thinking, some suggestions. A lot of schools (NYU, for example, when I was there) offer music opportunities to non majors, so your D could take lessons, and I believe others schools offer this. She could do a BA in music, which often is non auditioned and isn’t quite as intense as a BM, but the question is does she want to do that, or would she perhaps want to study something else and do music as I said, as a non major. Every school is different and I cannot tell you what schools in the NYC area do (other than NYU and Columbia/Barnard)…I think the city schools, like queens college and brooklyn college offer that, but I am not sure to be honest.</p>

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<p>Hi again.</p>

<p>I’d like to first thank you all for your answers. They have helped us a great deal. I’ve done a lot of thinking, talking with my daughter, asking her former drum teacher questions, and I’ve even spoken to a few people at some NYC colleges, trying to figure out where she stands in terms of auditioning for a college if she wanted to go to a performance-based program. There are definitely many top notch schools that are out of her reach, considering she has less than a year and a half to work on her drumming skills. But several schools suggested that it was do-able if she really focused since she has such a strong background with music through dance and several years of drum lessons. At one school the man told me that the music program and the dance program work closely with each other and my daughter could take dance classes there as well. And her former drum teacher feels that she has enough ability to be able to audition without a problem.</p>

<p>So I guess I am most interested now in finding out what the city schools’ music programs are like. These are the ones I am interested in: The City College of New York, Hunter, Brooklyn College, and Queens College. Purchase would be a reach. Are there any others you can think of? Does anyone know anything about these?</p>

<p>She definitely likes the sound of Manhattanville and her dream/high reach would be New School’s Jazz/Contemporary Music School because Jazz is one of her interests. </p>

<p>I have signed her up for private drum lessons and it was suggested that she look into music theory classes and keyboarding, as well. Any suggestions on these things in NYC would be great.</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

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<p>Manhattan School of Music has a great conservatory prep program, as does Juilliard. Your daughter is still young and she is transitioning out of one intense pursuit into another one. She has time to explore. See how she likes the theory class and the drum lessons.</p>

<p>I do want to say that, to some extent, many kids who have been doing intensive dance have less experience with “normal” teenage life in some ways. They have to be purposeful, sleep well, stay healthy, and dance most days. It’s different from intense musical development in that you have to go to class every day, and practice in class, not alone.</p>

<p>I would just make sure that your daughter knows she can relax a bit and explore. That it is okay to be undecided about things. She is old enough now to decide her path, and there may be many, many things that will interest her.</p>

<p>Clearly she has had an interest in music, but again,for the purposes of enriching her tap dance, I don’t think a music major is necessary and a few courses that are relevant would be enough.</p>

<p>Does she have academic interests at all? I remember she has been teaching. Does teaching in any other area interest her?</p>

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<p>Just one quick clarification to add:</p>

<ul>
<li>Indeed, there is such a thing as a BFA in Music - usually associated with jazz or sometimes music technology when paired with interactive and interdisciplinary studio studies but not engineering. Sometimes even voice is offered in a BFA format.</li>
</ul>

<p>The key difference lies in a few curricular nuances. Jazz theory, where offered, has a different sequence and is of shorter duration than the 4-segment western classical theory that forms a BMus basis. Improv means a reduction of other BMus required hours. Etc. So some programs, eg. UMich, offer its jazz improv degrees as a BFA, even though the student WILL have a studio and WILL likely have a performance focus. (They just won’t have quite the same theory and musicology sequences in order to fit in some other things).</p>

<p>In my son’s course, which is a hybrid music degree with composition, interactive, tech and a bit of engineering, it is offered as a BFA with a very specific sequence and requirements, plus the requirement of a senior thesis to graduate.</p>

<p>So like the BMus, the BFA suggests studio-style, hands-on work inside a professional-tracking degree program that is not purely “academic” in the way a BA might reasonably be expected to be. (Kind of similar to the difference between Dance BA and Dance BFA, or Theatre BA and Theatre BFA.)</p>

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<p>Wow. That is detailed about the BM and BFA. I’m not really sure which one is right for my daughter. In dance, she wanted a BFA not a BA. I guess I’ll have to check what the NYC colleges offer.</p>

<p>Does anybody have experience with music programs at NY city schools? Maybe I should make it its own thread. I think I’ll try.</p>

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<p>If your D is interested in Jazz, someone else had an interesting comment about MSM’s pre college program. I have heard kids from there play and they were fantastic! I suspect it is competitive as heck, but maybe you d could talk to her teacher about it (obviously, only true if you live in the NYC area or are like some parents and go to crazy lengths to get their kids there;)</p>

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<p>“I do want to say that, to some extent, many kids who have been doing intensive dance have less experience with “normal” teenage life in some ways. They have to be purposeful, sleep well, stay healthy, and dance most days. It’s different from intense musical development in that you have to go to class every day, and practice in class, not alone.”</p>

<p>It depends on the music student, on things like violin and piano many of the kids are experiencing what dance students do, a lot of them homeschool or do alternative programs like the professional children’s school in NYC to have the flexibility to do what they need to do. Even the kids who go to regular schools find their time cramped and the ones serious about going into music (as opposed to the kids doing it to use as a strong EC to get into a top college) are likely not to do the typical teen thing; kind of hard to go to school every day, do the ec’s, the other ‘normal’ things, and then find time to practice 3,4, 5 hours a day, not to mention being in ensembles and such.</p>

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<p>Musicprnt, please understand that I thought (mistakenly) that it was obvious that music students lived the same life, and was simply addressing a mom of a dancer. Sorry. Of course. I know many musicians who homeschooled, or could never do any other activity, who couldn’t “party”, who spent all weekend at conservatory prep, who spend hours practicing their instrument- including my own. I did as much driving to music lessons as I did to dance classes, believe me.</p>

<p>What I was saying was that dance students are dependent on a class. Instrumentalists, for instance, can practice at home, in a solitary fashion, and maybe do it at 6 instead of 4. A dancer cannot dance and home, in a solitary fashion, but has to travel to practice, pay to practice, and needs a teacher and other students in a class in order to learn technique.</p>

<p>And I think we have been trying to gently suggest that although a year or two of practice and lessons may help her daughter become more competitive, many students have spent the same years and worked as hard on music as her daughter has on dance. Mixing tap dance performance and teaching may be tough to mix with intensive music study. Learning enough music to enrich the dance may not require a BM or BA program in music, but a few classes. And, finally, a 16 year-old may develop many unexpected interests in the next couple of years, and may even benefit from a more general college program, whether on campus or through continuing ed or online, as she pursues her interest in dance (or music).</p>