<p>After being 90% sure son would attend a nearby college, which happens to have a great music program and he would have close to a free ride, he has fallen head-over-heels in love with New York City. The performance opportunities are clearly much better there, but in our early searches it seems that scholarship opportunities are scarce, particularly for out-of-state students.</p>
<p>He is a senior at our state's school of fine arts. GPA - 3.5 unw/4.0 weighted. ACT is 29, (although he's retaking in two weeks and honestly he didn't prep the first time, so I am optimistic for increasing that at least a couple of points.) His specialty instrument is classical guitar and those in the music profession indicate that he is very talented. (He also proficiently plays electric, jazz, and bass guitars) He has a steady stream of both community service performances and paid gigs, as well as a smattering of general community service work. Should have strong letters of rec and can write a moving essay. :-)</p>
<p>Any ideas for a good match for him in or very near NYC that won't put us in debt for the rest of our lives? Thanks so much for any suggestions!</p>
<p>Well if he raises his scores, he may have some public options in NYC and get some merit scholarships from THOSE schools.</p>
<p>Look at the CUNYs and see if any have your son’s music interests.</p>
<p>What is your budget? How much do you want to spend each year?</p>
<p>Whatever your budget is, you need to make that amount clear to your son that he must work with that amount. If he can find a school that works, then good…if not, then other affordable options in other regions will have to do…</p>
<p>“Falling head over heels”, as you already know, isn’t a justification for amassing lots of debt. ;)</p>
<p>It’s not a good idea to co-sign extra loans for him since a budding music career rarely pays much in the beginning…certainly not enough to make substantial loan payments. </p>
<p>I doubt any of the privates will work unless you’re willing to pay a high amount. Fordham would likely accept him, but they won’t give much in aid and his scores aren’t high enough for merit there.</p>
<p>Well, I am going to be more blunt than m2ck was - </p>
<p>It’s delightful that he’s “fallen head-over-heels in love with New York City” - he can get a job and move there after he graduates!</p>
<p>Lots of kids want to live in New York . . . so the New York colleges really don’t have much incentive to lay out big bucks in merit money to lure them there. Someone over in the [music</a> majors forum](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/]music”>Music Major - College Confidential Forums) might be able to offer a suggestion, but I wouldn’t count on it.</p>
<p>If your son doesn’t really understand what it would mean to borrow the funds to attend a NYC school, have him read [this</a> recent thread](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1382974-we-cosigned-our-unemployed-son-s-student-loans-now-we-re-screwed.html]this”>We Cosigned Our Unemployed Sons Student Loans. Now Were Screwed - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums) about college debt.</p>
<p>SUNY New Paltz is relatively affordable for OOS students and is “only” 2 hours north of NYC. I have no idea how good their music program is.</p>
<p>Music is not a field where he can expect to have the income to pay off large loans. ( especially in his primary interest area)</p>
<p>No matter how much he loves NYC, he should keep in mind that the less debt he has upon graduation, the more flexibility he will have in choosing his schedule after graduation.
What schools has he been considering?</p>
<p>The musicians I know have attended New England Conservatory, Willamette, Oberlin & the UW( well & Duff was attending the Albers school of business at Seattle University but that was after Guns & Roses)</p>
<p>Which brings up a good point- even if he is positive he is a musician first and foremost, a good music program in a university, may be preferable to a conservatory.</p>
<p>Erin’s Dad – Thanks for the suggestion. I will look into that school. I was unaware of the numerous SUNYs out there! I don’t know how much they vary in their scholarships or if they tend to award them using a general criteria. My daughter, who had a slightly lower gpa, but slightly higher test score, was an OOS student at a state college which waived OOS tuition; I haven’t run across as much of that for NY, but perhaps it isn’t always obvious from school websites. Maybe the private colleges are better options. . .</p>
<p>Sorry, if I was confusing. The entire point of my post was to find schools with music programs that are doable without incurring much debt. Also, my “head over heels” comment wasn’t to indicate that this was some last minute lark, just a bit of explanation about my personal shift in gears. I thought the in-state school was pretty firm, but we have talked in the past about a couple of NYC schools he might like, but felt they weren’t worth the ridiculous amount of debt they would require. </p>
<p>So, any other suggestions for schools in that area that may be more generous to talented musicians with better than average academics from out of state?</p>
<p>[Macaulay</a> Honors College -](<a href=“http://www.macaulay.cuny.edu/]Macaulay”>http://www.macaulay.cuny.edu/)</p>
<p>Your son’s major might not be offered, and he might not have quite the GPA and exam scores that usually earn admission, but have him take a look.</p>
<p>What about SUNY Purchase? Closer to NYC, with arts and music majors. Inc classical guitar. Close to city so you get good teachers, etc.</p>
<p>If you are looking for needs-based aid, I would think you would be last in line as an OOS student…but SUNY Purchase would be way less $$ than say, NYU or something like that in Manhattan.</p>
<p>HOWEVER-SUNY Purchase is pretty isolated–NOT an urban school. So if he’s hate that, might not be the best. On the plus side, there’d be lots of arty types to hang out with.</p>
<p>I’m not sure there would be any merit, but I don’t know that…maybe give them a call to see if there are opportunities in that area?</p>
<p>Paperplane – we had someone else strongly suggest SUNY Purchase. Apparently they have a great classical guitar program. The location is fine; it isn’t like he feels the need to be in the middle of NYC, just the access would be a big plus.</p>
<p>We aren’t looking for needs-based scholarships. Merit ones, based on classical guitar performance and/or for his gpa/test scores are what we hope to find. I’ll scour the website and perhaps give them a call. </p>
<p>Thanks for the suggestion!</p>
<p>If you haven’t already done so, I would suggest you post your query on the Music Major section of this forum. There are many knowledgeable folks there who can give you their opinions.</p>
<p>Music performance merit awards are based on the strength of the student’s audition. The reality is that the student will also be competing for music merit awards with all of the others auditioning on his instrument. So…not only does the student need to be very good, they also need to be very good relative to the others who are auditioning. Most music performance programs have very limited funding for merit awards…and most of the schools are on the costly side.</p>
<p>THe challenge with attending CUNY is while OOS tuition may be affordable, your son would still need a place to live in NYC, which is not going to come cheap. While Hunter and Queens college now have housing, it is extremely limited. OP is correct that NYU/Fordham, Julliard, Manhattan school of music are all very expensive programs.</p>
<p>[Tuition</a> & Fees](<a href=“http://www.msmnyc.edu/Admissions/Tuition-Fees]Tuition”>Tuition Overview - Manhattan School of Music)</p>
<p>YOu’ve gotten good advice about going to school in NYC. Your son should look up the top schools in his field–I have no idea what they might be for classical guitar, whether Juilliard is even a contender, but he can certainly give them a try. Auditions figure greatly in the performing arts acceptances, and even more in scholarships. There is no reason why he should not have a few lottery tickets on his list with the understanding that the money has to come with the admissions offer.</p>
<p>Most importantly, however, he should have some schools on his list that have programs where he can study his music, will be sure to accept him, AND are affordable. Those will be the most important schools on his list, because once he has them down, he can go to town in applying ANYWHERE he wants, including BIg Apple schools, because he is covered. </p>
<p>Purchase is a good bet, but it is highly selective. SUNYs are about $20K for instaters, probably $10K more for OOS. As Sybbie says, the CUNYs are limited in housing as they are intended to be primarly commuter schools. Hofstra, Five Towns, Wagner are some schools that may have some classical guitar programs and have some merit/financial aid. A close friend of ours Whose DD was accepted to Manhattan School of Music, did not even get half her need met, so that is a tough go.</p>
<p>Remember…there are few true safety schools when one is required to audition for acceptance.</p>
<p>Check out Adelphi and see if that might work for your son. They give great merit aid.</p>
<p>If you want good sized merit, then find schools where your son’s ACT is well within the top quartile of the school.</p>
<p>Your D likely got good merit because her ACT was at least a 30, and at her school that was well-within the top quartile. </p>
<p>How much merit do you want? In other words, how much do you want to pay? Since your son would be giving up a near-full-ride in your home state, it may be hard to justify paying a lot.</p>
<p>If you’re willing to pay about $15k per year, then your son would need a full tuition scholarship. Then your contribution could pay for room, board, fees, books, etc. His test scores would have to be very high for the school…typically in the top 1-3% of the school.</p>
<p>It may well come down to what you are willing to pay and what your in state alternatives are. If you are looking for full ride, that’s tough under any scenario. Throw in the fact that he wants a strong music program which means a school that attracts a lot of talent, makes it even tougher. SUNY Purchase is not an easy school to gain entry when it comes to their conservatory program, and I daresay anyone accepted to them is very talented. How generous they are in terms of merit awards, I don’t know–they really don’t have to be to attract the talent.</p>
<p>My one son was a Performing Arts major, and I can tell you that at most schools, the test scores figured into the package as well. Yes, schools like Emerson that auditions so that the musical abilities were screened, but you had to be off the charts great in order for your academics to become secondary. Many such schools that attract a lot of great candidates due to their strong performing arts programs, use the merit money to buy some strong students in the mix. Not that hard to do, as a lot of those who want to go into the arts are also very good academically.</p>
<p>One of my kids is a musician with both a bachelors and masters degree. MOST of the performance scholarship awards are based on the strength of your audition. DS went to a large university with a terrific conservatory like music program. His SAT scores had to be in the “ballpark” for admissions but the music department had some leeway in acceptances for students who are talented. There were academic scholarships that students could get in addition to performance awards…but the school really looked at the total package…and my son only knew one student who got both music performance and academic merit awards. </p>
<p>If your son is looking at a conservatory, the ACT or SAT score “threshold” is typically much lower. These schools want top musicians, and the academic stats really aren’t all that important. However, these schools run about $60K a year with living expenses in NYC. Merit awards almost always are MUCH LESS than the full cost of attendance.</p>
<p>The private conservatories in the greater NYC area are likely to be unaffordable to this family…but you never know. I would strongly encourage the student to apply to these schools as “wish” schools…if the money works out, fine. If not…well…other options will need to be considered.</p>
<p>Have him look at Wagner on Staten Island. It’s a short ferry ride from Manhattan, has a good music program and would probably be very generous to him.</p>
<p>guitarmom, to give you a general ballpark sense of scholarships at various top music schools, there is a thread over in the the music major section you may wish to review. We’ve kept running stats now for a few years.
Hope that helps.</p>
<p>Two that were suggested to me for S (jazz/contemporary bass guitarist) on the music forum here were the College of St. Rose in Albany and William Paterson in Wayne, NJ. I’m told the latter shares a lot of music profs/adjuncts/teachers with the big NYC music schools at a very low cost. </p>
<p>As it turned out S didn’t want to go to the NE so we didn’t visit either one.</p>
<p>[William</a> Paterson University](<a href=“http://www.wpunj.edu/]William”>http://www.wpunj.edu/)</p>
<p>[Home</a> | The College of Saint Rose](<a href=“http://www.strose.edu/]Home”>http://www.strose.edu/)</p>