NYT: Tripped up by New Writing Section on SAT

<p>Cello--back then, we understood that schools that asked for a Writing SAT 2 took it pretty seriously (or else they didn't need to require it.) I'm pretty sure that copies of it were not sent to them then; I am glad that they can see them now, though I question how much schools take advantage of that.</p>

<p>Doubleplay,</p>

<p>Sorry I do not know the answer about the UNC honors program. Understand that getting accepted to UNC as an out of state student is quite difficult because something like 80% of the seats are reserved for in-state students. This may also apply to their honors program.</p>

<p>The recalled the link because it was one of the schools my son was investigating.</p>

<p>Eagle,
Both of my D's have been given many in-class writing assignments in h.s. Eng. classes. These are one-shot deals -- not subject to further editing after being "red-penned," etc. You don't get to take them home, rewrite them, resubmit them. There are a number of reasons for these assignments: they are to test your preparation regarding literature in the lit. classes, to improve your spontaneous writing skills, prepare you better for college, provide opportunities for ongoing assessment by the teacher (level of class comprehension), and occasionally even as a school-wide essay contest opportunity.</p>

<p>I think it's an excellent idea. Bluebooks are still used at college: perhaps someday in the near future they will not be, but until then it may help to keep in practice with writing off the cuff, so to speak.</p>

<p>That is QUITE different from "the standard college application essay."</p>

<p>Another reason Reed is not much interested in the brief timed essay is that students won't be asked to write in this manner while at Reed, so the ability to do so is largely irrelevant when considering candidates.</p>

<p>In general, Reed finds a number of other factors to be better predictors of college performance than are SAT scores, but the latter are still considered.</p>

<p>Eagle:</p>

<p>The point I was trying to make with the buzzer anecdote is that timed tests often do not test what an applicant/competitor knows--in other words, how well prepared that applicant is. That, however, is what colleges are looking for, not the most dexterous applicants. Of course, my S had plenty to show the colleges, and his (somewhat reluctant) participation in the contest was not even in his resume. I am thinking of other applicants who do not have the "plenty of other accomplishments" to show colleges but are capable of doing much better given a bit more time, as the BU placement test does. For all intents and purposes, BU is declaring that the SAT writing section is worthless.</p>

<p>"For all intents and purposes, BU is declaring that the SAT writing section is worthless."</p>

<p>Except for the intent and purpose of ... admissions! </p>

<p>Would we not expect a school that considers the short essays required by the ACT and SAT writers worthless simply NOT require the students to submit one. While the essay cannot be segregated from the regular SAT, the ACT essay is OPTIONAL. Unless someone could convince me--fat chance!--that the ACT has magically become a superior test, I do not see why BU insists on seeing the essays ... if they thought them to be worthless. How hard would it be to simply state, "Don't bother paying for the Writing Test - We do not give a hoot about it!"</p>

<p>In my opinion this is not very different from what happens at MIT, the school where Les Perelman--one of the staunchest and most vocal critics of the SAT Writing--wrote that the school wa ignoring the SAT Writing while this seemed to be news to Ben Jones, our friendly admission officer. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Standardized Testing </p>

<p>Applicants are required to submit results of the College Board's Scholastic Assessment Test (SAT) or the ACT (with Writing Test), along with any SAT Subject Tests that are required for admission to the program of application. In most programs, the results of the ACT (with Writing Test) will be considered in lieu of the SAT and SAT Subject Tests. Please consult the Requirements and Standards chart for more detailed information. </p>

<p>Please note that the Office of Admissions will not consider the results of the SAT from administrations prior to March 2005 as having met our testing requirements for freshman applicants. Similarly, results of the ACT from administrations prior to February 2005 or results of the ACT without the Writing Test will not be considered for freshman applicants. </p>

<p>When you register to take the SAT, ACT (with Writing Test), or SAT Subject Tests, make sure you indicate on the registration form that you would like to have your official score report sent directly to Boston University. For the SAT, the College Board number for Boston University is 3087. The ACT code number for Boston University is 1794. </p>

<p>Your application will not be considered complete until we have received official score reports directly from the College Board or ACT, even if your scores are recorded on your high school transcript.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Source: <a href="http://www.bu.edu/admissions/apply/instructions.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bu.edu/admissions/apply/instructions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>and </p>

<p><a href="http://www.bu.edu/admissions/apply/fresh_req.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bu.edu/admissions/apply/fresh_req.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>PS Speaking about BU, should we tell them that there is no such thing as the Scholastic Assessment Test--nor a Scholastic Assessment Test for that matter? After all, it's only been years since the change was made.</p>

<p>Xiggi:</p>

<p>With the breakdown of scores into M, V and W, it is easy for adcoms to decide how much weight to give each component. Harvard has decided to wait and see, which I take to mean, it will not give much weight to W.</p>

<p>Marite, please don't get me wrong: I am NOT a fan of the essay and it pleased me to see schools drawing their own conclusions about the new component of the SAT. </p>

<p>However, would you not agree that it is hard to reconcile BU's position, the conclusion that they consider the WRITING test to be worthless, and the admission requirements--the latter being very, very clear that they WANT the test? </p>

<p>My take is rather simple: the colleges do NOT know the hell they want .. and that is why the only "progress" and "Improvement" made to the SAT was based on the input of the morons of the University of California. Thanks to Atkinson and his apes, what was a poor test with a small impact is now being imposed onto millions of students, and onto thousands of schools that do not know what to do with it. </p>

<p>Schools could--and should--take a stand AGAINST the new test and clearly tell students NOT to take the Writing test. What would TCB do if 200,000 students moved to the ACT because the Writing is optional AND schools do not care for it? They'd make it optional in no time! That, however, would take both courage and vision.</p>

<p>For what its worth Ben Jones said today on the MIT forum that they are still taking a wait and see for the Writing. You have to send it in - but they are still figuring out how much it's worth. Hope it's true as my son's writing score is much lower than his other scores and likely to remain that way.</p>

<p>What I find most interesting about this discussion is that many of the schools that are saying that they are taking a wait and see attitude toward the test, i.e. Harvard, were schools that requires the SAT 2 Writing test. Of course this was before the schools could actually get scanned copies of the times essay. </p>

<p>Is the current SAT writing section that much different . . . or this is an example of the schools not saying directly what impact a test has on admissions. Kind of like saying ED, SCEA, and EA have no impact on admissions. Sorry for being skeptical. Personally, I think many schools are using the results sparingly. That will change next year when USNews includes the writing component in their overall rankings.</p>

<p>Xiggi:</p>

<p>You are right that colleges do not know what they want in terms of tests of writing, though they do want writing that is really the work of the students and not parents, teachers or coachers. It is possible that the CB will come up with writing prompts that allow for essays that can be written in 25 minutes and grading criteria that promote better writing than what has been touted as outstanding. </p>

<p>Eagle: My S took the SAT-II Writing I'm afraid to confess I had not paid much attention to its format until the new SAT was announced, coinciding with my discovering CC. Once I did, however, I was quite dissatisfied. I don't know how much time was allotted to writing an essay for the SATII-Writing. Perhaps Xiggi will know.</p>

<p>myself, don't remember length of SAT II writing D took 2 yrs. ago, but I remember her lamenting the over-broad nature of the prompt (as I mentioned earlier), which sounds similar to SAT I Wr section.</p>

<p>The essay had to be written in twenty minutes. There were 60 MC.</p>

<p>fyi, for those interested, I've collected Class of 2010 SAT I Writing data from a number of college web sites in the College Search forum:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=235657%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=235657&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Its clear to me that in searching out those schools that have reported 2010 profiles, some schools seem to have bought into the Writing exam, but many haven't....that is, they have chosen to not report the data, implying that it is not important to them.</p>

<p>Thanks, Xiggi. I believe my S had a perfect score on the MCs. But now, I'm not surprised his essay score was mediocre if he had only 20 minutes to write it.</p>