<p>BTW, there are no legal issues concerning the ED agreement; it works on the honor system. Of all schools, NYU will care the least if you back out because of FA issues.</p>
<p>Steve, I’m a little puzzled because it sounds like you have self employment income, but if so, then there’s no way you could file a 1040a. </p>
<p>It also doesn’t make any sense to me, given the very high COA at NYU, that the Pell grant is such a huge difference in your budget – it’s a mere drop in the bucket at NYU - and as others have noted, IF NYU is giving your son any grant from its own funds, they would subtract a Pell grant right out of that amount (as would just about ANY college with need based aid) – so you are either freaking out over roughly $5K to pay for a $50K school, or else you are trying to force NYU to supplement an aid package they have already offered which may be generous by their standards, if not by the standards used at other colleges.</p>
<p>Finally, I’m confused by your reference to the quality of a psych department along with reference to opportunities available only in NYC. If your kid was a prospective finance major hoping for Wall Street internships, I could see the argument that NYC offers better opportunties. But a psych major? Can you clarify what you son’s intended course of study is and why you perceive a NYC-based school to offer more opportunities?</p>
<p>You only record self employment income if you have self employment income. No income - no k-1 and you can file a 1040a. I’ve looked at my finances from the standpoint of a more sophisticated retirement analysis model than what you get with a quicken program. I modeled it specifically to my needs and employ the exact investment approach I use. I’ve figured my budget for what I can afford to part with in terms of assets. There is about a 20k gap. Between the Pell grant, lower cost dorms & tap funds, you’re there. That’s why Wisconsin works as is. I was not insane to let him apply to NYU. </p>
<p>As for psych, he is interested in forensics and the crossover space between psych & meditation. You can check out the instructional staff at Tibet House; advanced meditation practitioners with psych backgrounds. I also know a researcher in forensics in NY with the same. Wisconsin has some extraordinary meditation practitioners, but not much in psych backgrounds. Illinois is weaker still. If he decides to go the PhD route, he will need a school that can get him past the admission barriers; I suppose those 3 schools are his best chance. He wants to do this…I am just trying to help him…</p>
<p>steve, a quick question and maybe I missed this. You talk about your income and such over and over. Where is the mom in this saga? Is she the non-custodial parent?</p>
<p>She is the non-custodial parent.</p>
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<p>Steve, very early in this thread you wrote the above. Is the ONLY aid you need from NYU the $5000 or so Pell grant? Are you able to pay the remaining $51,000 each year yourself.</p>
<p>OR do you need the Pell in addition to what NYU has already awarded your son? If that is the case, I will say it again…NYU may very well adjust your financial aid award to reflect the awarding of the Pell grant. They can then very well DEDUCT that amount from any institutional aid they have awarded your son.</p>
<p>I gave an accounting earlier in terms of cost cutting and some outside help, but I basically just need the Pell grant. They only offered loans at this point which I would not accept. Why pay 8% and earn 1%. My cost would go up 100k.</p>
<p>So let me get this straight…you are able to pay $51,000 a year (somehow) and “all” you need is a Pell grant to make up that $5000 difference?</p>
<p>NYU offered your son NO need based aid at all…except the Stafford loan? Is that correct? </p>
<p>Have your son get a job. He can work on weekends and perhaps 10 hours a week while in college. He should be able to earn $3000 a year anyway. Then you could file the 1040 long form, get your $2000 and you’d be all set.</p>
<p>I like that, but the way things are set up right now, if he makes more money he uses it to pay back the unobligated relative.</p>
<p>I am probably going to have to have a heart to heart with his mother, or at least negotiate that he can run through his programs quickly and take a year off in the middle to work. We’ll see if she steps up to help in the absence of a Pell grant.</p>
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<p>Are you saying that his MOTHER would require him to pay her money that he earned for college? This thread just keeps getting weirder…</p>
<p>Wait a minute! I’ve been following this thread for a long time, but I must admit I got a bit lost in the middle. Steve–are you saying there is someone out there (is it your S’s non-custodial mother) who is going to fill in your financial gap (with a pile of money) only if NYU gives you the Pell? </p>
<p>All contributions from anyone to a student’s education are supposed to be declared on these forms. If you are trying to get away with something like not declaring “income” no matter what the source then that sounds like cheating to me. Or has this thread become a case of “telephone?”</p>
<p>I will provide the majority of the money. My son is next in line. After my son’s earnings, His mother will provide some additional up to a point. If my son earns more, she pays less. The state forms require disclosure of these payments, but since nothing was paid in 2010, the first year requires no such disclosure. After that, about 12% of her payments will be deducted from tap. Fafsa does not require disclosure of assets or other income after agi and a filing a 1040a. If it changes next year, I will disclose it. I told NYU from the beginning that my circumstances might overstate the required need and I would not ask for the maximum amount. They were not interested in conversation, but simply playing by the rules irrespective of what the rules meant. So I am targeting the rules to get back to something workable. I am not asking them for direct financial aid. There is a legitimate financing gap. I don’t see anything wrong here.</p>
<p>Steve, your account does not ring true. If you have the assets available to pay nearly full cost to NYU, then your son shouldn’t be getting a Pell grant. Pell grants are intended to go to people on the lowest end of the economic spectrum. If you have the big bucks needed to pay for NYU with a Pell Grant, then you darn will can figure out how to make up the pittance that a Pell grant represents.</p>
<p>I am sure that you have figured out some kind of rationale that makes you technically eligible if you play things exactly right – but that does not mean that you are entitled. NYU has every right to correct the FAFSA if they think it has not been filled out appropriately. </p>
<p>Anyway, the bottom line is you aren’t fooling anyone on this board and I can certainly see why the NYU financial aid people won’t give you the time of day.</p>
<p>I’m not trying to fool anyone. It is easy to react emotionally when you see a pile of money. But basic finance explains you have asset AND liabilities. Everyone needs to pay for housing, food, etc. When there is no income and no prospect of income, the assets must pay for 100% of the liabilities. I challenge you to put aside your emotions and look at facts. Fafsa basically says that if you earn less than 50k, you need your assets to pay your liabilities and puts you at the bottom of the financial spectrum. I didn’t say that, they did.</p>
<p>A simple test - someone has about 1.6mil & earns 3% in bonds (49k/year). Inflation is 2.5% & taxes about 20%. They lose 10k/year vs their expenses and run out of money in their very early 80’s. fafsa says this is okay. This scenario is quite volatile, and if things don’t go according to plan, you could easily take 10-15 years off that. For example, many people think we will have substantial inflation in the coming years. 4% will knock 6 years off. Pay for NYU outright and knock off another 4-5. If they invest in stocks instead of bonds (most do), watch out (look at the past decade or Japan since 1980)…</p>
<p>The government is saying they are not comfortable with the risk of a certain percentage of a vulnerable population going completely onto public assistance in their late 60’s and 70’s. If people can’t buy the right kinds of food, or can’t get proper heat in their old age, they die. They don’t want this responsibility and are saying it hits a threshold where they are willing to help out. You don’t agree?</p>
<p>Here is the issue. Apparently you have sufficient unearned income per year that must be reported on the FAFSA…VERY suficient unearned income (you said something in the $30K range without t/e…whatever t/e is). Having THIS amount of unearned income is a huge red flag with regard to financial aid…I’m not talking about Pell, I’m talking about about the school simply wondering how someone would have $0 earned income, and $30K in unearned income. Simply put, most people do not have sufficient assets to earn $30K a year in unearned income. </p>
<p>Get a job. You could earn enough so that your son gets doesn’t need to work, you don’t need the $5000 or so you are saying you are “short”, and you won’t have to ask your former spouse for any of her money. </p>
<p>It would go a long way in teaching your son some responsibility and showing him that if he really wants something, he can EARN a way to gain it.</p>
<p>There is some confusion here. My agi is below 30k. t/e is tax exempt income (muni bonds). That brings income up to 43k. There is no unearned income at this point. To the extent his mother helps out, it will be well under 30k and will be reported where asked.</p>
<p>I mentioned the idea of dislocated worker. There is a physical injury which limits the type of work I am capable of doing. The difference between what I can make over the long run in my current capacity, IF things go according to plan, is slightly less than what I could earn if I “got a job.” All of this is well below the poverty level. I chose to spend my life helping other people to the best of my ability in my current capacity at a small cost.
If I tried to get a higher paying job, chances are I would wind up in the hospital for an extremely long period of time and lose my ability to earn anything at all.</p>
<p>I AM teaching my son responsibility; responsibility to benefit your community in the most reasonable way possible. Thank you for the suggestion.</p>
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<p>The federal poverty level for a family of 2 is $14,570. You would have to have a family of 10 or more to be below the poverty level with a $43K income.</p>
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<p>Are you saying that the income from your bonds is not unearned income? I don’t think so…it is simply untaxed income. It is reportable for FAFSA purposes.</p>
<p>Where is the other $30K of your income coming from if not from work? Pensions? SSDI? I honestly don’t see a $43K income is producing full Pell and TAP awards for a family of 2 with one kid in college, even with assets excluded. I’ve done several FAFSAs this year for kids around this income level and they did not end up with 0 EFCs. Haven’t done the TAP apps yet, but IIRC they were not awarded the maximum last year with very similar income info.</p>
<p>Your kid doesn’t need to go to NYU. They are a private institution and they’ve made their position clear. Don’t try to pass yourself off as being in dire financial straits and at the same time planning to pay almost full tuition at an overpriced private college. If you are so worried about your finances and your future, send your kid to an in state public.</p>
<p>Good points. The poverty guidelines are correct, but they don’t work so good in Westchester, ny. Since I have assets, I also need to buy health insurance, for which people under the poverty line may be able to get medicaid. If I cut my health insurance and paid zero for housing, I might be able to get close to the 14k. Trying to live at that level would lead to a very short lifespan. I have about 7 years experience cutting expenses to the bone without endangering health. I spent $17 last year on clothing. I can’t make it here on anything close to 14k and moving would have required an expensive custody battle. I have other responsibilities that do not allow me to move anytime soon.</p>
<p>All income is interest, either taxable or untaxable. My agi for fafsa purposes was about 27k comprising taxable interest income and I file a 1040a. The simplified test that does not consider assets is 50k. Fafsa considered my income and spit out 0 efc. I guess you are saying the extra 15k or so in muni income would increase the efc if it were recorded as such. I would not know. Someone who relies mainly on muni income would probably be subject to the amt and therefore could not file a 1040a. That is the check the government has. I am not sophisticated in the use of the amt, I just know it is very far away from something I need to consider. </p>
<p>It seems to me there is somewhat of a mixed bag. Poverty levels are not accurate (especially after you include health insurance) and the required expenditures in westchester for safety are closer to the 50k number than 14k. At the same time, I do not know much about whether the amt is an effective tool to protect the government against the sort of arbitrage of investing in munis to lower agi for fafsa purposes. Does anyone know this? Finally, the giveback of 2k in filing a 1040a versus a benefit of 5.5k seems to be steering things in approximately the right direction. Could it be that the system works?</p>
<p>I am not saying I am the most deserving candidate for a pell grant. Someone from harlem should go first, and they will only choose from suny schools. But if I choose to take risk upon myself that exceeds the risk the government establishes as safe and sound, in order to help my son, should the government step in and say I do not need to take that risk and therefore withdraw the grant? Yeah, I made a lot of money when I was younger. I did it in the mortgage back securities market at a company called Lehman Brothers. I lost my job in 2000 by communicating to them that their ethics were a problem and would lead to the demise of the company. All rich people are evil…let them eat dirt like everyone else…I am not portraying myself as being in dire straights. I am portraying myself as exactly where I am and it seems the government has plans for people in my situation that balances assets with income. If I am not arbitraging their intent away via the amt, then what’s the problem? If I am, I will certainly look at that.</p>