<p>A close friend of my kid's was involved in this. My kid agrees with the "protest searching for a cause" comment. "I hope [my friend] didn't get suspended over budget transparency."</p>
<p>I also feel students protests may be worthy. It is refreshing to see that activism is a live and well, but honestly this group handled itself very poorly. Some of the demands may have been looked into if they presented themselves as credible. But they lost me when they demanded scholarships for the Gaza and send supplies to Islamic University. W T F ? Yale University had a similar episode some years ago. It was about their Financial aid policies. The students won and the handle their FA differently as a result of the protest.</p>
<p>They absolutely blew an opportunity.</p>
<p>Isn't it a little late to be worrying about tuition? They knew what it cost coming in. If NYU financial aid doesn't come through, and you'll know this while still a high school senior, there's SUNY, Rutgers, Penn State....a host of alternatives to living in the most expensive city in the US (although I haven't read the particulars, and I do applaud activism that might lead to benefits for future students).</p>
<p>Why 13 btw?</p>
<p>I'm interested in the Gaza angle. In the first week of this term , 80 or so Oxford students took over the Clarendon building - one of their demands was five fully paid scholarships for Palestinian students. This sit in was part of a wider movement which has seen similar sit-ins at 16 UK universities as outlined here: </p>
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Isn't it a little late to be worrying about tuition? They knew what it cost coming in
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<p>Just because the tuition is high doesn't mean people can't try to get NYU to lower or freeze their tuition and fees and make it more accessible for all types of students. Yea we all know we can opt for state school or CC, but this is a democratic society. NYU has a longstanding history of poor financial aid. Does one just say ok, thats the way it is or does one say hey wait a minute, why can't we be heard and try to have the administration meet us half way. With our economic meltdown, a lot of students are not going to be able to get their private student loans. When my D returned from the winter break, 3 students living on her floor had to leave because their loans were cancelled. This is going to affect many kids across the country. State schools had record high applications which mean a lot of kids aren't even going to get in. Nationally, private institutions are going to have to do something to attract qualified students to their doors.
Endowments took a hit as well. So all around it is not a good picture. So I totally get where the students were coming from. I just wish they had a plan and stayed on topic and was courteous and willing to meet with administration. I will state again that they blew an opportunity.</p>
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didn't think today's students cared enough about anything but themselves to mobilize in this way.
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<p>Mobilizing for lower tuition for themselves is anything but altruistic. :D</p>
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Just because the tuition is high doesn't mean people can't try to get NYU to lower or freeze their tuition and fees and make it more accessible for all types of students.
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<p>These kids need an econ lesson. </p>
<p>The way to make NYU accessible for "all types of students" is to RAISE tuition to the full-payors which would provide the University with more funds and enable it to offer better finaid to lower income students (aks 'spreading the wealth around'). NYU is listed on PR as one of the worst for finaid bcos they gap -- merit aid for the tippy top of the class (and likely already rich), but mostly loans to the lower tier of the matriculants (and more poor students). Like George Washington with has the benefit of DC, and NY City as its campus, NYU could easily price itself as the most expensive college in the country and it would still be highly selective.</p>
<p>^ I honestly think that would backfire, bluebayou, although i'm sure you know more about it than I do. But let me explain my perspective:</p>
<p>I'm upper-upper-middle class, so my parents are paying 100% out of pocket. 8 other students from my HS go to NYU, and I know for a fact that most of their parents are also paying full tuition out of pocket. i'm transferring out of NYU after this year, and so are many of my freshman peers. I know several students from my hometown - all of us from well-off backgrounds - who chose not to go because they felt it's not worth the money. Your concept might work for Harvard, but for a college like NYU, most people would feel it's not worth it. Sure, we're in the city, but we also have no campus, no tradition/campus culture, sports are a joke, no community, dorms get really far away after frosh year so you end up commuting from your dorm, our campus is a bunch of buildings randomly scattered around Manhattan, it's expensive, class sizes are huge, etc. Right now, Tuition + Room/Board + Meal plan + Fees/books = $54,000 - how much more expensive can it get?</p>
<p>NYU has an extremely high external transfer rate, and the #1 reason is money. Everyone here complains about tuition, and many feel it's not worth it. I think raising tuition would be a terrible idea. Then again, as a student, I'm biased :)</p>
<p>Also, I agree the Take Back NYU coalition is ridiculous, but if you actually looked into their demands, many of them are altruistic, if stupid - scholarships for students in Gaza, opening Bobst library to NYC, etc.</p>
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The way to make NYU accessible for "all types of students" is to RAISE tuition to the full-payors which would provide the University with more funds and enable it to offer better finaid to lower income students (aks 'spreading the wealth around'
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<p>your kidding, right?
This statement, I find silly.</p>
<p>not kidding at all. If NYU raised tuition on the rich (Olson Twins) they could offer better finaid to the non-rich.</p>
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who chose not to go because they felt it's not worth the money
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<p>With the exception of a couple of programs (Tisch, Law, econ), I too, agree NYU is not a great value, bcos I wouldn't want to be a starving student in an extremely expensive city. But, there are plenty of upper middle class kids who will still apply simply bcos its in NYC, even if they are not Olson Twins rich. Heck, there are plenty of full pay students at many NE colleges. Just take a look at their common data sets.</p>
<p>I agree many apply just because it's in NYC - in fact, most of our student body seems to have shown up because it's in NYC - but if you think raising tuition will increase enrollment during this particular economic crisis, I have to disagree. More and more students are shunning pricy private schools for state schools because people are losing money/jobs, but tuition aint getting any cheaper. </p>
<p>I agree, it's not really worth it unless you're in Stern/Tisch/certain CAS programs.</p>
<p>I remember campus life in the late 60's early 70's. The protests were not altruistic. I remember sitting around a dorm room listening to the birth dates for the lottery for the draft. Most of us felt it was like like a death lottery. And that for a war most of us believed was not winable. There were lots of other issues thrown up during those protests but I am absolutely certain that without the war and the draft there would have been few if any student sitins, occupations, or riots. And yes we all knew there were consequences but most of us felt there were consequences, for ourselves, from inaction too.</p>
<p>Instead of wasting their and everyone else's time with a silly, embarassing protest (that thankfully got them suspended), how about they get some jobs and earn some money and use that to fund the causes they're protesting about. Those four students on the balcony looked ridiculous and the two girls looked like they were using more than their fair share of the meal plan. If they ate a little less, it would lower the cost of the meal plan for everyone.</p>
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If they ate a little less, it would lower the cost of the meal plan for everyone
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ouch! You know as silly as you might have thought, they thought otherwise. Being right or wrong.</p>
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Sure, we're in the city, but we also have no campus, no tradition/campus culture, sports are a joke, no community, dorms get really far away after frosh year so you end up commuting from your dorm, our campus is a bunch of buildings randomly scattered around Manhattan, it's expensive, class sizes are huge, etc. Right now, Tuition + Room/Board + Meal plan + Fees/books = $54,000 - how much more expensive can it get?</p>
<p>NYU has an extremely high external transfer rate, and the #1 reason is money. Everyone here complains about tuition, and many feel it's not worth it. I think raising tuition would be a terrible idea. Then again, as a student, I'm biased
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<p>With all due respect, you knew (or should have known) this when you applied and when you decided to attend NYU. It was expensive then, and it is expensive now. The campus culture did not change between the time you applied and when you arrived on campus. The physical plant, class size, lack of community and so forth at NYU are well-known. I'm stunned you are surprised and, as a result, now want to transfer. I don't mean to be harsh but you (and the others from your town) did not do your homework. I hope you'll be happier at your next school.</p>
<p>I have a kid who is a senior at NYU. I didn't know anything about this protest until I read it here. CC seems to be my news source sometimes, LOL. </p>
<p>I agree that those who were protesting could have put that energy into better ways to effect change. </p>
<p>Just commenting on a few things mentioned on this thread...</p>
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NYU is listed on PR as one of the worst for finaid bcos they gap -- merit aid for the tippy top of the class (and likely already rich), but mostly loans to the lower tier of the matriculants (and more poor students).
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<p>I do not agree with this statement, particularly the part about those who receive merit aid as likely to be rich! Are you telling me that the most talented students are rich? Sorry, I don't see a correlation there. Then, you say that the lower tier of matriculants are likely poor? I'll just speak from personal experience. We are not rich or poor. For starters, my D qualifies for, and receives, finanical aid. She got a large four year scholarship when she matriculated. Now, as a senior, she got three additional scholarships that are named scholarships that appeared on our statement this year. She recently was selected by the faculty to as a nominee for an outside scholarship for a graduating student in her field. So, my D has received significant merit and need based aid at NYU. Talented students are not all rich. As far as the other end of the spectrum, those with lower "stats" who are admitted are not poor. I know kids who got into NYU with stats in the lower range who are from well to do families. </p>
<p>stargazerlillies feels that NYU is not worth the money. I realize each student and family comes to this from their own perspectives. And I understand she wants to transfer. NYU is not worth it to her and that is fine. It is not for all people. I just want to say that as parents, we feel NYU has been worth every penny that we'll be paying back in loans for years to come. We could not be more pleased with the experiences our child has had there and the opportunities she has been given and those she has created for herself. (by the way, the lack of campus and sports teams are known before one matriculates.....also my D has not been in huge classes hardly ever at NYU and many professors know her very well).</p>
<p>The price of a school is known before one matriculates. If that is not to their satisfaction or they don't think it is worth it, there are other schools to attend.</p>
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I do not agree with this statement, particularly the part about those who receive merit aid as likely to be rich! Are you telling me that the most talented students are rich? Sorry, I don't see a correlation there.
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<p>I purposely did not use the word talent (since I have no way to evaluate it, and its a special item itself, particularly for Tisch). But, yes, on average, test scores, gpa, ECs, all the stuff that adcoms love at highly selective schools are income-related; and it has a positive correlation. But even at Tisch, it takes thousands of hours of practice, practice, practice (according to 'how to get to Carnegie Hall'), and those thousands of hours are not possible if one has to work as a grocery bagger to help pay the family bills. </p>
<p>According to NYU's cds, it is 50% full pay, which generally means an income of $150k or so. Granted, that ain't wealthy by NYC standards, but it is by national (and international standards?); it's approximately the top 5-6% in the U.S. [Note, that 50% is no different than the Ivy's.] And, for whatever reason (low endowment?), NYU only meets 67% of full need, which means that a third of need-based aid is in the form of self-help, aka loans. Thus, PR probably ain't far off the mark.</p>
<p>Not trying to pick on NYU per se, bcos many schools play the enrollment management game, as you well know (as a college counselor on cc). In addition to merit money, NYU and GWU and many other colleges also play enrollment management with those who qualify for need-based aid. In other words, they give lotsa grants to the higher part of their applicant pool and a lot more loans to the lower part. It is a statistically valid assumption to make that the higher part of the matricuant pool also has higher incomes (and happen to require less aid) than the lower part of their acceptance pool. </p>
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As far as the other end of the spectrum, those with lower "stats" who are admitted are not poor. I know kids who got into NYU with stats in the lower range who are from well to do families.
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<p>No doubt there are plenty of anecdotes to the contrary, but on average, lower income kids score lower on standardized testing. A good question to ask NYU is how many Pell Grantee kids receive merit scholarships?</p>
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With all due respect, you knew (or should have known) this when you applied and when you decided to attend NYU. It was expensive then, and it is expensive now. The campus culture did not change between the time you applied and when you arrived on campus. The physical plant, class size, lack of community and so forth at NYU are well-known. I'm stunned you are surprised and, as a result, now want to transfer. I don't mean to be harsh but you (and the others from your town) did not do your homework. I hope you'll be happier at your next school.
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Did you even read my entire post? You're not coming across as harsh, you just seem to have missed the point entirely. It's not about how I want to transfer, or how 10% of our student body does after freshman year - it's about how NYU already costs $54,000 and if they raised the tuition even more like someone was suggesting, then it would be another incentive for prospective students to not go. NYU is not like Harvard, a school which could get away with raising tuition because it's too good to pass up for so many. NYU is a good school, but there are much cheaper schools just as good or better, so I think raising tuition would make the situation even worse than it is.</p>
<p>I "did my homework" before coming to this school. To be honest, I had other colleges in mind but my parents refused to pay for them and I get no FA. Visiting a college twice before coming and reading some brochures don't tell you what it's like - I wasn't entirely opposed to the NYU stereotype before coming here. Sometimes people simply aren't happy with the environment they find themselves in. Also, I didn't mean to imply all my hometown friends are transferring, I was making a point about tuition. </p>
<p>catalalina - I'm not on TBNYU's side, but you're making it sound like these kids are fat spoiled brats - not sure if you go to NYU, but it seems like most students on campus have a part time job/internship or do something for money... it's not like we sit in Starbucks all day and sip lattes, you know :) Meal plans are pretty unnecessary, I think...I use cash and save money.</p>
<p>bluebayou....I know I used the word, "talent" but talent doesn't imply artistic talent, to me anyway. Just as a point of reference, to get into Tisch, 50% of the admissions decision is artistic talent and 50% is academic review. Thus, one has to be a very good student to pass academic muster for NYU admissions even for Tisch. In my own kid's case, she is a very good academic student, without the performing arts skills. For example, she was also selected to be a Tisch Scholar which is not a monetary scholarship. And you do not have to be rich to pursue her field. One of her good friends from our HS who got into the same kind of degree program that she got into (by audition), is a refugee who lives in subsidized housing here.</p>
<p>stargazer - I wasn't suggesting that most NYU students were sitting around sipping lattes. I realize TBNYU only represents a small number of students - my issue with them is that they seem to be protesting for the sake of protesting. As other people have pointed out, their "cause" is totally disjointed and their method of protest disruptive. There are other venues they could have used to achieve some of their entirely disparate goals. It makes them look silly. And, why exactly should the university be funding scholarships for Gaza students??? If they are going to have more scholarships, they should be for underprivileged students from NYC - there are plenty of those to go around.</p>