<p>Glassharmonica, I think what Alexxmichele is referring to when she says “fluff” courses, are classes that are required that you don’t like- which is what most other “regular” college students need to do. </p>
<p>The academic requirements at Tisch drama are very broad and there are hundreds and hundreds of classes to choose from.
You do not need to take any specific math or science ( no statistics, economics, calculus, bio, chem, etc. for my kid!). You can pretty much take anything in Arts and Sciences you want. Some classes would fill the “Humanities” requirement and some would fill the “Science” requirement (social sciences count!). Then there are theatre studies requirements at Tisch, but there are tons of classes to choose from there as well. </p>
<p>So if my kid wants to take “Women Studies” as a science she can, and if your kid wants to take Organic Chemistry… She can. This to me is one of the real beauties of this program.</p>
<p>Mommy5, I agree. The choices for the arts/sciences classes and for the Theater Studies classes are endless and so other than Writing the Essay freshmen year, WHAT you take is pretty much in your own hands within very broad guidelines, and then of course there are the required conservatory classes. I will add that in ETW studio, in the upper levels, they allow choices for the studio courses as well.</p>
<p>MOMMY5, I know what she was referring to. But academics are hardly “fluff.” She means you don’t have to take difficult, time-consuming courses that will divert energy from the program.</p>
<p>What is difficult and time consuming to one student is different than what is difficult and time consuming to another. Most freshman find Writing the Essay very difficult, even kids who were at the top of their classes. My kid found it not difficult at all and totally enjoyable. But a math course to her would be torture. </p>
<p>Alexxmichelle may have chosen the wrong word, but the point is the kids get to control their curriculum more so than in a typical BA program, but have many academics, unusual for a BFA program.</p>
<p>My son is an excellent writer but still didn’t love Writing the Essay. His teacher was phenomenal and a musical theatre writer. Yes, he learned a lot but that doesn’t mean he had to enjoy the class. Also, there are so many discrepancies among the teachers of this class. Some assign tons of work and some do not. His teacher was very picky about everything and he even got marked off for expressions that are used in the south but not up north. He did like his second semester teacher for that class though!</p>
<p>I think of “fluff” courses as the sort of courses that you could just learn everything from reading on your own, like “survey” courses that cover so much material that they don’t have time to go into any depth. Most of the homework for these courses is just time consuming without actually teaching anything, busywork. I would rather spend my time (and would learn more) directing a play.</p>
<p>I teach writing at a university (not “freshman” writing; however I am pretty familiar with such classes.) I can tell you that these courses will vary dramatically with the instructor, even when there is a department-wide syllabus. And within a given class, students will react differently. Sometimes the student will feel the course and instructor are a great match; sometimes it’s torture. It’s luck of the draw. A student who is a gifted and fluent writer may chafe at assignments, style expectations, and grading rubrics that feel constricting. The person in the desk next to them could blossom, being given a set of clearly defined expectations. Yet, in the end, both students will derive benefit from being in this situation. </p>
<p>I would also like to point out that the classes you take in college do not always have an immediate application to what you are doing right now, in this very moment. This goes both for your acting/craft course as well as academic courses. You studying to inform your future self. Often, what you learn doesn’t quite gel or make sense during the course of the semester, or even for years to come. Skills learned in one course will connect, complement, and supplement skills learned in another. What you think you are going to learn in a class may not be what you actually learn about the world and about yourself-- learning is about connections. You may not actively enjoy a course, or even feel that you are benefiting from it, in the moment. But later, elements of the class will emerge and suddenly make sense. Even a “busywork” class (not how I would classify the freshman writing course under discussion, above) can yield benefits, indirectly, as far as how to deal with situation and expectations of the class.</p>
<p>It is understandable that students engaged in the study of craft discipline would grow restless at the idea of studying what does not seem immediately applicable to their growth as master of the craft. But do not make the error of constricting your experience of the world. Artists are of the world and reflect the world. Someone on this forum said that you can learn everything you need about life (I’m paraphrasing) by studying the complete works of Shakespeare. While that is a lovely sentiment, I don’t think it’s quite true.</p>
<p>That said, I do believe it is possible to be an educated, thinking artist while studying a conservatory, but one must work to engage with the world with an open mind. And don’t discount learning experiences that seem frustratingly off topic in the moment, because the fruits of your labor may be slowly ripening, only to appear later, unexpectedly, in your future.</p>
<p>Supportive makes an excellent point. I’m going to back it up with an example from my D2’s parallel experience in an art conservatory. As a freshman, she was assigned many foundation courses that are not directly applicable to her very specific 3-dimensional major (glass art.) She was placed into a drawing course taught by the head of the department. It was extremely difficult and exhausting-- requiring 30+ hours a week of work (and she was carrying 18 credits), endless revising. There was no grade inflation-- she worked harder than ever before, struggling for a B-. Meanwhile, many of her friends were placed in drawing courses where they did minimal work for easy A’s. After the first semester, my daughter requested to stay with the same incredibly demanding teacher. Again, she worked herself to exhaustion (this time for a B). The growth in her skill over the course of that year was phenomenal-- and, remember, this is in a discipline that was not directly related to her career-specific major. (Meanwhile, her friends, in the easy course, did not improve their skills at all.) A few years later, she remains extremely grateful for the skills acquired in the class that seemed, in many ways, irrelevant to her career-specific work at the time. </p>
<p>But the biggest lesson is about working hard towards mastery of something that you are not already good at. This broad lesson, applied specifically towards difficulty in your own craft, is invaluable. </p>
<p>If I am actually learning something, it isn’t a “fluff” course. And, no, I will not include “learning how to deal with the mindless tedium and arbitrary expectations of the course” as “learning something”. I am intelligent enough that I can read books on my own. There is no reason for me to take a “survey course” like “history of world theatre” that tries to cover so much in such in a single semester that it fails to cover anything in any depth. All I have to do is read the books on my own, and I will have learned more than I would by taking the course. And because this is a subject I am already interested in, I have already read a lot of the books, and so I already know enough that I could pretty much TEACH the course.</p>
<p>I chose to major in a fine art, theatre, specifically because the fine arts HAVE to be taught “hands-on”, which teaches me things I don’t know and can’t learn from reading books.</p>
<p>glassharmonica…both of your posts are fabulous and meaningful. I agree with all you wrote. </p>
<p>I want to point out to those not familiar with NYU also, that the freshmen writing courses in Tisch are specifically geared toward the arts and world views. They involve many outings in NYC around many kinds of the arts and a lot of the writing is tied to these experiences. So, it really was more than just writing but had to do with arts, issues, the world, etc. and many first hand experiences in the city.</p>
<p>My D has looked extensively at Tisch, but I’d still like clarification about academic requirements once in the program. People say that they are more rigorous than most BFA programs, yet the number of general education courses doesn’t seem to be more than most (8, if I’m reading correctly), and, besides the two freshman writing courses, students pick among numerous choices (for example, no math required, but may be taken). </p>
<p>Does their reputation for having rigorous academics come from intense requirements of the general education courses themselves, or do the academic courses within the theatre major require more ins tense reading, writing, and research than most programs (and, therefore, less hands-on courses in the theatre academic courses than usual)? Or, is it a combination of both?</p>
<p>My D just finished her 1st semester at NYU (arrived home today!) she had 2 “non studio” (re: academic) classes this past semester: Writing the Essay, and Intro to Theatre Studies. She has 2 more next semester: Writing the Essay part 2, and Intro to theatre production. All of these classes meet 2 days a week (M/W, studio is T/Th/F) Both classes this semester were extremely rigorous, requiring large amounts of reading/writing outside of class- she had papers due most weeks (length varies, as short as a one page response, as long as 15 pages) in both classes. Upside, due to schedule, all the kids in her “academics” were Tisch kids- and so the focus in her writing class was arts, theatre etch. </p>
<p>D came with a large number of AP credits, which trims her “required” quite a bit. She needs to take 1 more “humanities”, and one “science”, and then all her other academics can be elective. Not sure how many she needs to take- again, she came with credits (plus she did the summer program while in HS and earned credits that way) so she is already a sophomore. </p>
<p>I have no way of knowing the rigor at other schools- but I do know that NYU is a strongly academic university, and they expect their theater kids to be able to participate- though you have a lot of flexibility in how you do so. In contrast, I remember at CMU the kids telling us that they had taken almost no “regular” university classes, and written one paper since they had arrived. (the person who told us that is a junior- he is from D’s PA school)</p>
<p>If memory serves me (and I don’t have time to look it up right now)…it’s more like 15 academic courses, not 8. </p>
<p>There’s the two freshmen writing courses (Tisch/arts related) and 6 distribution liberal arts classes…pick two from humanities, two from sciences (broadly defined…don’t truly have to take math or science!), and two from either, and 7 Theater Studies classes in Tisch, 2 of which are chosen for you in freshmen year and 5 are by choice. </p>
<p>Oh, okay. I get it now. The 8 classes of which I spoke referred to the number of gen eds and did not include academic theatre courses. Most programs don’t require that many academic theatre courses, I believe. And, besides being greater in number, perhaps they are more academically intense than most other programs? ( @soozievt, since you are a counselor and have also been around CC a long time, maybe you know if they seem to be more demanding than most other programs.)</p>
<p>After reading your helpful responses, I searched Tisch’s website again and found this: “The theatre studies curriculum consists of two required introductory courses, Introduction to Theatre Studies and Introduction to Theatre Production, followed by a minimum of five theatre studies courses in such areas as dramatic literature, theatre theory, performance studies.” Are those as academically demanding (intense reading, writing, researching) as the general education courses? </p>
<p>D just finished Intro to Theater studies this week. There was a lot of reading (essays, plays, critiques- generally 2-3 per week) 3 major papers (up to 10 pages) and 7 smaller papers. She found the reading more intense than the writing- some was very “out there”. (I read one of the plays she was writing about over thanksgiving- WIERD stuff) Overall she found it on a par with the AP classes she took in HS, but overall, she found her gen ed writing class MUCH more intense. She also says that there was significant variation within ITS among her friends- each professor has their own requirements.</p>