<p>Even though my husband (ND '78) and our s (ND '13) think it is great that Obama will speak, my father-in-law (ND '49) is quite upset with them. In our family, we can agree to disagree, but I doubt they will be seeing many of my father-in-law’s bucks from this point on. We were having a friendly little argument on the topic and he said, “It’s guys like me they have angered. We are the guys who used to send in the big donations,” Even though I am very glad that the president will be there, ND may have screwed themselves over on this one.</p>
<p>On the issue of abortion, Mr. Obama was elected to maintain the status quo. In fact, he has vowed to codify and expand “abortion rights”, and to provide unlimited public funding for abortion.</p>
<p>To the Catholic Church, to which Notre Dame has always claimed to adhere, there is no more important social justice issue than the issue of abortion, and Mr. Obama’s opinions and policies are 180 degrees from those of the Church.</p>
<p>If Notre Dame and the vast majority of her students aren’t against this (which appears to be the case), then Notre Dame has ceased to be Catholic. Simple as that.</p>
<p>It is of great concern, imagination01, regarding the monetary donations of many alumni. Many are angered, and while they may not vocally protest, I truly suspect they may withhold donations as the protest of choice. In this economy, pursestrings have been tightened already–perhaps a speaker that is not as high profile as the President (and costly, as well, given the security that must be needed) might have been more in order. I suspect, however, that we will not truly know the effect of this whole commencement issue until well after the event. I stand by my previous remarks regarding the students-I hope that indeed it is a day to honor them on one of the most important days of their lives.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the graduating students will pay the price for this decision, as their special day will be overshadowed by dissension and by the extra security precautions that accompany all events with the President. Those who need extra tickets for their family members will find few classmates willing to part with what would otherwise have been surplus tickets.</p>
<p>AlDomerDad, I have consistently been hoping that you would notice the most obvious logical fallacy in your repeated argument, that Notre Dame is no longer Catholic. I have been reading your posts, and many of them are well supported, even if you resort to rhetoric to back up your incredibly stubborn points of view as often as possible.</p>
<p>My problem lies with this: John Jenkins is the President of the University of Notre Dame. He is not Notre Dame. The Board of Trustees is the governing body of Notre Dame. It is not Notre Dame. The student who post on this board are a small subset of the student body. We are not Notre Dame.</p>
<p>Notre Dame is its spirit, its student body as a whole, its tradition, and the values it preaches on the ground level. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again; visit Notre Dame. Go to a dorm mass, talk to the student body. You’ll find it’s incredibly easy to spew vitriol, criticism, and qualitative statements about a place that you haven’t experienced first hand in any sort of substantial way, a place that you seem to have established your opinion of based on one decision, the related opinions of bishops (who have never made the illogical, irrational, and virulent claims that "Notre Dame is not Catholic), and the inarguably biased media (in both directions). </p>
<p>You have not and will not make your point, because it is inherently unprovable and refuted by first person experience by the people that are fully immersed in the culture of faith, belief, understanding, and intellectual growth on thiscampus, MY campus. Do not tell me what I am. Do not begin to criticize my peers. You don’t know me, and you clearly do not know Notre Dame.</p>
<p>kevdude, “your” ND is an educational institution which welcomes various points of view and is open to discussion (Some people view this as a good thing)</p>
<p>Upcoming events:
The University of Notre Dame’s Core Council for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Questioning Students will lead a number of campus activities April 14 to 17 (Tuesday to Friday) as part of “StaND Against Hate Week.” </p>
<p>Co-sponsored by Notre Dame’s Gender Relations Center, student government and University Counseling Center, the week is dedicated to ending all forms of hate against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people and serves to create an inclusive spirit at Notre Dame for all people, irrespective of sexual orientation and gender identity.</p>
<p>And this:
The Quran in its Historical Context,” an international conference addressing the most recent theories, controversies and discoveries in the field of Quranic studies, will be held April 19 to 21 (Sunday to Tuesday) at the University of Notre Dame. The conference is free and open to the public.
The conference, which will provide a unique forum for discussion of the historical circumstances in which the Quran was formed and of its relationship to the Bible, will open with a lecture titled “The Multi-dimensional Quranic Worldview: Tartib al-Tilawa versus Tartib al-Nuzul” by prominent Egyptian Muslim scholar Nasr Hamid Abu Zayd of the University of Humanistics in The Netherlands. Abdolkarim Soroush, a philosopher, innovative interpreter of the Quran and one of the leading opposition figures in Iran, will give a response. Robert Hoyland of the University of St. Andrews in Scotland will deliver a lecture titled “The Earliest Written Evidence of the Arabic Language and Its Importance for the Study of the Quran” on April 20.</p>
<p>Leading scholars from a wide range of countries, including Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Germany and the United Kingdom, will lead panel discussions titled “Quranic Origins: Manuscript Evidence,” “Quranic Origins: Historical Evidence,” “The Quran and Earlier Religious Tradition,” “The Quran as Literature,” and “The Quran and Historical Linguistics.”</p>
<p>Here’s my proof that Notre Dame is no longer Catholic: 93 out of 95 Senior Class letters to the editor of the Observer are in support of a position that is clearly, and without any question, in flagrant defiance of a UNANIMOUS statement of the United States Catholic Bishops.</p>
<p>I would expect to find a bit more adherence to the Church’s teaching in an authentically Catholic school.</p>
<p>You can call it Catholic, it has a basilica on campus, and that is Mary up there on the dome (weeping), but if the figure I quoted above is accurate, then I’m afraid it’s far too late.</p>
<p>For faithfully Catholic students who aren’t sure if ND is the place for them, you are providing valuable transparency.</p>
<p>What sort of Catholic University sponsors a “Queer Film Festival”? (admittedly no longer its name, but it was!)</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, the film festival was not held this year. [How</a> Notre Dame sneakily killed off the Queer Film Festival - Viewpoint](<a href=“http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2009/02/16/Viewpoint/How-Notre.Dame.Sneakily.Killed.Off.The.Queer.Film.Festival-3630931.shtml]How”>http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2009/02/16/Viewpoint/How-Notre.Dame.Sneakily.Killed.Off.The.Queer.Film.Festival-3630931.shtml)</p>
<p>There are some good things happening at Notre Dame.</p>
<p>“There are some good things happening at Notre Dame”??? How exactly is it “good” to restrict the free speech of students and suppress their self-expression? That isn’t “good” at all. Everyone has an opinion on homosexuality (including the Church, and we all know its view), but that is not justification for restricting the free speech and self-expression of students who often do not get to peacefully do either. That is just intolerant.</p>
<p>That article you posted contains the best quote as to why such views/practices are archaic…</p>
<p>" ‘I think the real test of a great university is that you are fair to the opposition and that you get their point of view out there,’ Hesburgh told the Times. ‘You engage them. You want to get students’ minds working. You don’t want mindless Catholics. You want intelligent, successful Catholics.’ "</p>
<p>It’s a good thing when a Catholic university adheres to its mission, and declines to sponsor a festival celebrating the practice of homosexuality, which is, as you know, contrary to Church teachings.
Hesburgh’s quote was beside the point. The purpose of this festival was not to explain or defend Catholic teachings regarding homosexuality, but to mock them. There is no “opposition” when it comes to Church teachings. It’s not like debating an esoteric political issue.
Hesburgh is bit muddled on that point, but, then he’s in favor of the ordination of women, so he’s not the best “go-to” person for an accurate quote on Church teachings. And Hesburgh is responsible for the Land O Lakes statement that began Notre Dame’s slow drift towards secularization that the current administration is trying to repair.
Intelligent, successful Catholics need not attend a “Queer Film Festival” in order to “get their minds working” on Catholic teachings regarding the sinfulness of homosexuality. What an absurd notion.</p>
<p>Claremarie, Apparently many Catholics don’t share your views.</p>
<p>[Poll:</a> U.S. Catholics lean left on social issues - USATODAY.com](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-03-31-catholics-liberal_N.htm]Poll:”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-03-31-catholics-liberal_N.htm)
By Daniel Burke, Religion News Service
American Catholics are more liberal than the general population on social issues like divorce and homosexuality, despite the Catholic Church’s longstanding conservatism on both issues, according to a new survey.
Catholics are more likely than non-Catholics to say that homosexual relations, divorce, and heterosexual sex outside wedlock are morally acceptable, according to an analysis by Gallup pollsters released on Monday.</p>
<p>In other areas, Catholics are nearly identical to the population at large. For example, 4 in 10 Catholics say abortion is “morally acceptable,” compared to 41% of all Americans. And 63% back embryonic stem cell research, compared to 62% overall.</p>
<p>Catholics who attend church regularly hew more closely to church doctrine, but are still more liberal on many issues than non-Catholic regular church attendees</p>
<p>Twenty-four percent of Catholics who attend Mass regularly say abortion is morally acceptable, compared to 19% of non-Catholic regular attendees. And more than half of Catholic regular worshippers say the same about embryonic stem cell research, compared to 45% of non-Catholic worshippers.</p>
<p>The Gallup survey was based on interviews with 3,022 Catholics adults conducted in May of 2006, 2007 and 2008. The margin of error is plus or minus 2 percentage points.</p>
<p>Apparently, many self-described Catholics aren’t really Catholic. That’s nothing new. But Church teachings are not determined by popular vote, so polls like this aren’t particularly helpful, except to point out the crying need for better formation.</p>
<p>Aldomerdad and Claremarie:</p>
<p>I have to say I agree to a certain extent with what you point is. However, I have to say (and I don’t mean to offend) the self-righteous and close-minded way you say them reminds me of the Sadduccees and Pharisees Jesus so ardently tried to talk some sense into.</p>
<p>God is the only judge. period.</p>
<p>Sorry to offend. But the truth sometimes hurts, as Jesus understood when many of his disciples left him after his discourse on the Eucharist at Capernum. They thought his teaching was just too hard to accept. His response was not to water it down, or try to come up with a compromise doctrine more acceptable to his listeners. Instead, he simply asked Peter and the others if they too were leaving.
And it’s interesting that you mention the Pharisees. They were wrong, remember? They weren’t teaching the truth, as Jesus and his Church do. And Jesus was extremely harsh with them, calling them blind guides, hypocrites, and worse. </p>
<p>Many Catholics who “disagree with” or “dissent from” Church teachings are the victims of horrendously poor formation. They went to CCD, or attended schools that are Catholic in name only, and never had the benefit of a solid and orthodox program in Catholic doctrine. They haven’t read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, nor any of the writings of the early Church fathers, nor any of the recent papal encyclicals. They cannot correctly explain the basis of the Church’s teachings on the ordination of women, or of the challenging but beautiful teachings on the meaning of human sexuality. They haven’t been to confession since their confirmation class, and they don’t always bother to go to Mass on Sundays. Their opinions on Church doctrine are formed largely by what they read or hear in the mainstream media. To some extent, their poor understanding of Church teachings is not entirely their fault, because they honestly don’t know any better.</p>
<p>WW007 - let me get this straight - isn’t ANYONE who espouses following clear teaching of the Church going to appear like the Sadducees and Pharisees to you? If you’ll go back and actually read the Gospel, the problem with the Pharisees wasn’t their observance of the law; it was their hypocrisy. I try very hard in my personal life not to say one thing and do another. For instance, I know alot of conservative Catholics who bad-mouth our liberal bishop; in that he’s my bishop, I will defend him and his authority, even if I don’t agree with him alot of the time.</p>
<p>With respect of “God is the only judge” - do you imply that nobody can judge anything at any time? Anything goes?? Jesus left us the Holy Spirit and His Church when he ascended to heaven. Just as Jesus will “judge the living and the dead,” he left us his Church as his living body on earth, with the solemn responsibility to receive and teach his word through the ages. The Church has the responsibility to serve as judge and teacher here on earth, my friend.</p>
<p>Chessmom:</p>
<p>“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.” Matthew 7:13-14</p>
<p>The majority are going down the “road that leads to destruction” in the words of Our Savior.</p>
<p>If you are trying to convince me that the Church position on abortion is wrong because of some gallup poll, you are seriously, dangerously (for your soul) misguided. Truth and lies, right and wrong - are NOT based on polls or popular opinion. Moses didn’t take a poll to determine what to chisel on the tablets, and Jesus didn’t survey the disciples to determine what he was going to teach.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, SoJerseyChessmom is a good example of the type of catechesis your kid will be exposed to at Notre Dame.</p>
<p>I think we’re beyond the point of logical discussion here. If you guys want to put blind faith in the magisterium (which is comprised of humans, and thus, fallible) and promote indoctrination, then go ahead. But if people want to grow and strengthen their faith on their own, then that is their prerogative. So just let it be.</p>
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<p>My father-in-law is a '59 ND grad and he stays in touch with many of his classmates and other alumni - He is a very generous donor as are his friends(a building is named after one of them). Just this past weekend, he was talking about the graduation controversy and stated that many of his ND friends are still so angry about this situation that when they receive their donation letters in the mail, they plan to send it back blank - They will not be donating to the school.</p>
<p>That’s consistent with what I’ve heard as well.
The development office will be dealing with this for a long time</p>