Observations on Admission

<p>I am a rising freshman at Harvard at a top-10 public high school in the United States. These are some anecdotes about admissions that I've gathered, and the conclusions I have drawn about them.</p>

<p>Some competition is local.</p>

<p>Boy A, Boy B, and Self all do the same extracurricular activity (Latin) from the same high school. Boy A plays sports at an almost-recruitable level. Boy A gets wonderful grades. Boy A was the president of a 10,000 student organization on the state level. Boy A "only" had a 2150-2200 SAT. Boy A had, at the time of application, 4 gold medals on the National Latin Exam, which is pretty good. Boy A is not the best of essay writers.
I am involved with the literary magazine. I have mediocre grades (usually 1 B and 1 B+ a year). I play Latin team on the national level, and have placed 1st and 3rd. I have a near-perfect SAT. At the time of application, I had 4 perfect scores on the National Latin Exam. 8 people received their fourth perfect in my year. I am a pretty darn good essay writer.
Boy B, now, only did Latin. Boy B's grades were good, but not as good as A's. Boy B was the webmaster of that organization, not the president like A. Boy B was involved in Latin team, placing first with me after freshman year, but has failed to make the team since. (He is an "alternate" which means he is almost good enough to make the team, but not quite.) Boy B's test scores were great, but not as good as mine. Boy B had three perfects on the National Latin Exam, and one gold, at the time of application. Boy B is a decent essay writer.</p>

<p>Boy A and I were accepted to Harvard. Boy B was waitlisted. Is Boy B any less qualified than many of the people I will meet as a Harvard freshman next year? No. Is Boy B any less smart than Boy A or me? I don't think so. Would Boy B have been accepted if he had been from a different state, or maybe even school? I think so. However, everything great Boy B did, Boy A or I did better. (And A and I each had two activities, while B had 1.)</p>

<p>There are feeder activities to the top colleges.</p>

<p>However, I don't think that getting into one of them makes you a desirable candidate. I think that desirable candidates tend to cluster in the upper echelons of certain activities.</p>

<p>Hearing the college destinations of the top Latin students in the state and country year after year, I always heard Harvard far the most. (A lot of Latin students do end up going to state schools and what have you, but of the students going to HYPSMIvy, Harvard was most common.) Sometimes one will go to Yale, having been rejected or waitlisted by Harvard, but that's rare. No one has ever chosen Yale, which probably helps our chances at Harvard. Occasionally (once every 3-5 years), someone will go to Princeton. Of the students going to the lower Ivies, it's pretty much randomly distributed.
Yale tends to be harsher to the Latin students, anyway. Boy A was rejected from Yale, as was a debater-Latin whiz-drill team (also known as color guard?) captain last year. On the other hand, my school always has terrific results with Yale and Princeton, except among the top students who take Latin.
For a long time I thought that that was just a coincidence. Then, on Harvard's preview weekend, I was put into a room with three prefrosh ballerinas from one town (I think of <200,000 people, so not that big. I don't know precisely), and one freshman who had come from the same ballet studio. (One of those prefroshes was also an Intel semifinalist or finalist, and is gorgeous. Jealoussss x] haha.) I am solidly of the belief that certain activities just end up sending more students to one school.
To repeat, I wouldn't rush to go find one of these activities--Latin conventions send their top 1-4 kids nationwide to Harvard every year without fail. That's a really small percentage of the kids who attend. Activities may have a good run for a few years, and then fade--I doubt that 20 years from now that ballet studio will have quite the same luck. I am also pretty sure that it's that the people who are drawn to a particular activity are desirable candidates, not that that activity in particular gives candidates a particular desirability over whatever activity they would have chosen if the "feeder" were not available. If you end up doing really well at one activity for several years, though, and look around and see that most all of the best students in your karate studio (or what have you) go to Stanford or Princeton, you're probably in a good place, at least compared to the general admission rate. I don't know how that would affect your chances at Harvard or Yale if one of those is your top choice.</p>

<p>Schools have different goals for their entering classes.</p>

<p>My school has 10-20 kids going to Yale this year, and 3-4 going to Harvard. There were no cross-admits. Some of the Yale students were WL'd at Harvard, but none of the Harvard students were even WL'd at Yale.</p>

<p>Harvard is scary.</p>

<p>Everyone's really good at something. Quite possibly a lot of things. See: Intel ballerina. Before going up to the preview days, I was all like "Oh, whatever, it'll be cool. There will be lots of smart people but hey, I'm smart too. I got in, didn't I?"
The people I met were impressive, but mostly, no cause to freak out. They were pretty normal to interact with.
Then there was the talent show of student organizations.
Holy freak.
Did you know that Harvard is the home to a 40-person incredibly, incredibly good breakdancing troop? FORTY PEOPLE? [I had only ever seen, in person, two people at a time break-dancing.] Did you know that they had similarly ridiculously intense African dancing? Or South Asian? Or East Asian? Or how professional their a cappella groups are? The a cappella groups that tour four continents every spring break? What about the Spanish music band? (Admittedly, a few acts were less impressive.) Did you know that almost none of the members of the non-a cappella groups (I assume that most of the singers had been singers before college) had been in those activities before Harvard? And so they have many other talents? Academic intense talents? Or maybe in one of the activities that manages hundreds of thousands of dollars! And that they are also probably, like the prefroshes and freshmen I actually met, pretty normal and cool to hang out with?
Harvard is not a good place to be faint of heart. I absolutely wouldn't want to be anywhere else, anywhere less frightening, but I think that Harvard is definitely not the right place for a lot of people. (However, I am a rising freshman, which means that I don't know anything about what it's really like. May update this thread after getting to college, but may not. If not, I will at least continue posting elsewhere in this forum a little bit.)</p>

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<p>Quoted for truth. At times, I myself wonder what on earth I was thinking when I decided to go there…</p>

<p>During prefrosh, I met such a dizzying array of amazing individuals - it was a wonderfully humbling experience, and I plan on having several more of those in the coming fall. :)</p>

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<p>There’s really no basis to say that. All you really know is who got in, not why. There is some merit to the argument that it is easier to get in from an underrepresented state than from Connecticut or something, but as for competition within a school, I don’t buy it and your anecdotal evidence is inconclusive. But I see why it is easy sometimes to think that intra-school competition makes a difference.</p>

<p>About the scary part – yes, there are some ridiculous people here. Of course you will also find a bunch of “normal” people, aka students who are ambitious and driven and intelligent but don’t necessarily have some one-in-a-million talent or jawdroppingly impressive credentials.</p>

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<p>This is exactly what I was trying to get across, only better said.</p>

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<p>I know. It’s my theory. That’s why I say “I think so” not “yes.” Am I allowed to have theories?</p>

<p>About the scary–I know I’ll find normal-ish people. I was surprised by the proportion of people who were jaw-dropping, though–I thought it would be rather lower. I would have guessed that I would find maybe about half the number of ridiculous people that I ended up finding. Could I be under that impression because they tend to trot out more of the the ridiculous people than the more normal students for preview weekend? (<= this question is not sarcasm.)</p>

<p>Lirazel, for some reason I’m of the impression you’re from IMSA. Correct? Aurora? I’m from Plainfield, near Naperville.</p>

<p>In any case I was food poisoned by Annenberg at prefrosh weekend, so I wasn’t intimidated at all. Just a little pis<em>ed and shi</em>ty, pretty literally.</p>

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<p>I didn’t mean to be a dick haha. I just thought it seemed a bit more assertion than opinion and sometimes people turn to this website for information and live their lives thinking it’s dogma. Just helps to have all arguments spoken for.</p>

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<p>Maybe. Preview weekends are generally geared toward those undecided between various schools. Maybe people who are accepted at like 6 Ivies are more represented at them than those for whom Harvard was their one, sole reach and got in.</p>

<p>Just an observation - Bill Gates was probably far from remarkable when he was at Harvard (though he was a Math 55er). Huge success doesn’t always come so early, and in some fields almost never does so. In any case, that should serve to intimidate you more, because all the normal people probably just have jawdropping dormant/invisible talents. But at the same time, that may be you too.</p>

<p>^Very well said.</p>

<p>Yeah, the kids who really stand out academically are just incredible. My roommate, for example, was a Math 55’er. When I mentioned him to other kids in 55, the usual response was “Yeah, he’s really smart.” This was coming from kids easily in the top couple percent in math at Harvard.
When you see someone like that, who already helped disprove a theorem in high school, you know you’re in a crazy place.</p>

<p>The best advice for college admissions came from a Harvard counselor. She said, paraphrasing slightly: “Students look at college admissions as a reward for doing the right things. They are wrong. Our job is to assemble a class. The fact is, there are thousands of applicants who would succeed at Harvard.”</p>

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<p>“Innsmouth” is a fictitious place in Massachusetts. I don’t give out my real state to make myself harder to track, just in case (there are only so many people on state Latin teams each year). I don’t live in Illinois, though. Sorry.</p>

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<p>Fair enough.</p>

<p>I think that recruited athletes (who would not have otherwise gotten in) are the best way of proving your statement, chnews. Some of the recruited athletes with 2000 SATs and 3.4-5 UW GPAs do succeed at their various Ivy Leagues or other top schools. If the athletes can do it, thousands more unhooked applicants must be capable of succeeding than have a chance of admission, based on their statistics, to those top schools.</p>

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H.P. Lovecraft! (I’m in the middle of his entire fictional works)</p>

<p>My mom’s friend does Harvard interviews, and from what I gather, that’s an important part of whether you get in (if you do have an interview that is. They don’t penalize you for not being able to arrange one).</p>

<p>Do you go to school in NYC?</p>

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<p>Yes, interviewers tend to say this. However, the admissions officers that I have heard disagree: they said, in essence, that the interview is really only important if you stand out as that interviewer’s most impressive interviewee or if you bomb. CC’s Sally Rubenstone seems to agree.</p>

<p>Think about it: most of the interviewers’ reports are probably pretty positive (not great, not terrible). When quite a few students don’t even get interviews and most reports are about the same, the interview can’t determine much.</p>

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Ah, but wouldn’t one think that a student ought to be very successful (stand out) in the interview to get a good shot at admissions for Harvard? Or am I wrong and do the majority of admitted students have “eh” interviews? I’m only a high school senior, so I don’t have the expertise or experience to answer this.</p>

<p>Don;t you also have double legacy, Lirazel?</p>