Official Harvard University 2016 RD Results

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
81

<p>Neither my wife or I went to an elite university, so our two sons cannot benefit from being legacies. But, I like the practice of reserving some portion of a school’s spots for legacies.</p>

<p>Institutions that work, that succeed and thrive, develop their own character over time. Certainly, Harvard is an institution with its own unique character. Part of maintaining and developing and protecting that character is served by admitting a certain number of people who have an intergenerational tie to the organization. These are often people who see the institution as more than a means to an end. These are often people who have the greatest commitment to the long-term success of the institution, and who will be there when the chips are down.</p>

<p>I’m not suggesting that non-legacies can’t develop ties of attachment and commitment, only that legacies and their families already have them, and there’s no reason for an organization not to make use of those reservoirs of good will and favor.</p>

<p>“Make new friends and keep the old. One is silver, the other gold.”</p>

82

<p>One of the founding principles of America was that there should not be a perpetual noble class which is passed on by birth. Rather, the revolutionaries believed that every individual should have the chance to succeed in life, with those who work the hardest being able to move up the rungs of the socioeconomic strata. The system today perpetuates inequality in many ways - through underfunded schools, networking among middle and upper-class whites, and policies which support the upper class.</p>

<p>Harvard is committed to diversifying the student body, as demonstrated by the Undergraduate Minority Recruitment Program and the most generous financial aid program in the country. Nevertheless, we still give an advantage to some students based on their birthright, not based on any of their own doing. Perhaps legacies build a close connection between families and universities, but the legacy policy clearly perpetuates unequal chances for graduating high school seniors. I have only been here less than a year, and I already feel very attached to Harvard, to the point that I am ashamed about our legacy policy.</p>

<p>Making friends who can donate money is not a sufficient justification for perpetuating unequal chances. For those who didn’t read my earlier post, call the Harvard admissions office at (617)495-1551 and tell them you are disappointed in their continual practice of legacy admissions.</p>

83

<p>

</p>

<p>BS. Complete and utter, utter BS. Total BS. Close friend: Went to Harvard, graduated with honors, runs own company, gives to Harvard for 30 years and is on Board of local city Harvard Club . . . Result: Son (ACT: 35; Published research; 3.99 on 4.0 scale; best recs, and accepted to other Ivies) RESULT: Waitlisted, denied. Result: Daughter (ACT 32; multiple sports captain; unique ECs in international affairs and diplomacy; 3.8 of 4.0 scale) RESULT: outright rejection.</p>

<p>Go pound sand, you are so very very wrong. Personal actual experience trumps any of your assumptions and third-party anecdotes. Go to the Harvard RD thread and rail rather on the 27 ACT minorities with nothing special who get in. Go, go there. Dare ya! At Harvard, URMs and Athletes rule first; legacies follow way, way, way behind. Look around you.</p>

84

<p>I’m sorry to hear about their stories. In respect to the minority question, my friends here who are minorities are some of the hardest working students on this campus.</p>

<p>Although it’s always upsetting to hear about students who get rejected, this story gives me new faith in our admissions policies as not being biased toward legacies.</p>

<p>One critical response: If there is no bias, I suggest you call the admissions office and urge them to remove the question from the Harvard supplement. Current Harvard students who are legacies suffer the stigma of people thinking they were admitted because of their pedigree. It would be better for all if the question was not there. If it provides no advantage, we should take the question off the application.</p>

85

<p>“Making friends who can donate money is not a sufficient justification for perpetuating unequal chances.”</p>

<p>It sure as heck is. Harvard is very generous with aid (the package they’ve offered my own son is more than fair). Playing with their aid calculator reveals that they give financial aid to families with nearly $250,000/yr in household income. That’s the top 1%.</p>

<p>Yet, Harvard only gives financial aid to something like 70% of families with students at Harvard. So - something on the order of 30% of kids at Harvard are from the 1% and pay MSRP? That goes a long way to subsidizing those folks who are getting substantial aid.</p>

<p>And that endowment that Harvard uses so generously to provide aid to students who aren’t in the 1%. That’s the accumulation of the giving of a lot of rich folks who went to Harvard or whose kids went to Harvard. Income used for the 70% of students not from rich households.</p>

<p>“One of the founding principles of America was that there should not be a perpetual noble class which is passed on by birth.”</p>

<p>The last time I checked, Harvard is a private institution that may do as it wishes, and has no role in perpetuating any titles of hereditary nobility.</p>

<p>The founders didn’t want to found a country with a hereditary nobility, but they did believe in a “natural aristocracy,” in other words, meritocracy.</p>

<p>The funny thing is that a basic component of merit - raw talent - is highly-heritable. Whether it’s intellectual talent or athletic talent, or musical or other artistic talent, there’s a significant amount of talent that just come via the genetic contribution of one’s parents.</p>

<p>Run that out for a few generations, and you’ll find that the smartest, most successful people often have smart, successful kids. These kids are often have the double blessing of genetic heritage and enriched home environment. Which ultimately cuts against a lot of the diversity cant we have now.</p>

<p>The SAT became popular as a way to identify the academically-gifted who didn’t come from privileged backgrounds, who’d been excluded from the old boys’ WASP network. And it worked marvelously well. It substantially increased the diversity of institutions like Harvard. Because prior to that, folks really did get excluded from opportunity because they weren’t born to a rich, Anglo-Saxon Protestant white guy.</p>

<p>But after a few generations of making things highly (if not perfectly) meritocratic, a new aristocracy has taken shape - that “natural aristocracy” of the founders. Thus, I’d expect a certain number of the children of Harvard grads to make it into Harvard on their own merit, without the need to rely on being a legacy.</p>

<p>And that’s part of why a lot of kids from very well-off families make it into Harvard - because they’ve received that double blessing and have made use of it to do things like… get into Harvard!</p>

<p>As well, after all your bluster about equality and diversity, you haven’t even engaged the argument that an institution may do very well to make some room for something like legacies, for the sake of the institution.</p>

<p>It’s ultimately up to Harvard to determine how much room there should be for legacies, and how much of an advantage that status should provide. My own view is that the room and advantage for legacies should be modest, but not eliminated. My own perception is that’s roughly what it is at Harvard and the other Ivies: a small advantage in some cases.</p>

<p>The existence of folks cited by placido240 shows that whatever advantage, whatever space is made for legacies at Harvard, it’s not large.</p>

<p>I agree with placido240 that the real travesty is seeing “underrepresented minorities” getting into elite schools with credentials that wouldn’t draw a second look from a non-minority applicant.</p>

86

<p>Only 30% of Harvard legacies are accepted, and they make up only ~10% of the class, according to statistics released by Harvard a year ago.</p>

87

<p>

</p>

<p>Even if Harvard removed the question from the supplement (and it has been so long ago that I looked at the Common App, I don’t know even if it is still there), the Common App itself in the generic information sections requires that you write down where you parents went to school. So, even if it is not in the supplement, the information about legacy will be in the basic information anyway. If you are troubled by legacy, you should go a look at Vanderbilt’s or UVA’s supplement, 90% of which are places to inscribe all those ancient legacy connections. Legacies at Harvard, as has been cited above, do very well. URMs do not. Duke has fessed up and put the information out there about URMs in elite situations; I doubt that Harvard will want to show how many of its own URMs migrate to pity-party majors that make recruiters roll their eyes. That’s not a good result for those URMs and not a good result for Harvard – but no one dares say that the emperor has no clothes, that is, that there are tons of fine places for many of the URMs that go to the Ivies, but maybe the Ivies actually ill-serve many that do go. Of course, not politically correct to say so, and I give props to Duke for having done it.</p>

88

<p>I agree that the children of Harvard grads are likely to be smarter than other applicants because of advantages in the types of homes, schools, and other opportunities available to them. Thus, we should expect children of Harvard grads to be accepted at a slightly higher rate than the general population. However, a jump from 5.9% overall acceptance to 30% acceptance for legacies is a HUGE gap. The non-legacy applicants are not dull; they are also very bright students. If children of Harvard grads are slightly brighter, that should come through without an explicit question on the application.</p>

<p>Just as legacies have an advantaged background, minorities have a disadvantaged background. Thus, if they succeed anyway, the admissions office should recognize this achievement.</p>

<p>As far as Harvard’s freedom as a private institution, I agree that they have the right to make policies however they please. However, Harvard still has a responsibility as the most prestigious educational institution in the world, and thus should not be perpetuating inequality. Further, I am a student at Harvard. This institution is not a third party; it is composed of all of those who are a part of it. As such, I am a part of Harvard and thus feel responsible for our admissions bias toward legacies.</p>

<p>If you are reading this post first, I started a few posts ago arguing against legacy admission at Harvard. If you agree that children of Harvard graduates should not be given an advantage in admissions, please call the admissions office at (617)495-1551 between 9-5 Eastern time on M-F. Thanks!</p>

89

<p>I would expect that the children of Harvard graduates, or any top-notch university, would generally outpace the rest of the population by a significant margin.</p>

<p>However, whether by a little or a lot, we know that 1) far more than 5.9% of applicants merit a seat at Harvard (probably three times or more that number) and 2) legacies at Harvard are limited to 10% of seats.</p>

<p>Even if Harvard legacy applicants are no more meritorious, on average, than other applicants, their acceptance rate isn’t much more than what it would be for the entire applicant pool, if there were sufficient seats for every worthy applicant. If we further posit that Harvard legacy applicants are modestly more meritorious than the rest of the pool, then we see that as a group, legacies who get in probably have about the same merit as the rest of the pool, only that a higher percentage of the pool of most meritorious legacies gets in than the pool of most meritorious non-legacies.</p>

<p>“As far as Harvard’s freedom as a private institution, I agree that they have the right to make policies however they please. However, Harvard still has a responsibility as the most prestigious educational institution in the world, and thus should not be perpetuating inequality.”</p>

<p>Harvard also has a responsibility to stay in business, to continue to succeed and thrive. Permitting a limited percentage of enrollment to comprise legacies in consonant with that imperative.</p>

<p>But don’t kid yourself, Harvard’s very business is the perpetuation of inequality: yhe inequality of result that occurs from rewarding persons based on merit.</p>

<p>I didn’t graduate from Harvard. Neither did my wife, nor anyone related to me. My grandparents came from the old country, my father went to college on the GI Bill while supporting his wife and four kids. I and one of my brothers graduated from moderately-reputable colleges, and have been able to provide better opportunities to our children. I believe in advancing through merit. I also believe that our own individual “merit” comes in large part from the ones who went before us. My son has been admitted to Harvard’s Class of '16 (the jury’s still out as to whether he will matriculate), and he did it on his own merit, but standing on the shoulders his parents, his grandparents and his great-grandparents, who all worked very hard to give him the advantages that he enjoys.</p>

<p>In some sense, this isn’t much different from the excellent applicant whose father or mother went to Harvard, and who maybe gets a little extra preference for that fact.</p>

<p>My kid’s not a Harvard legacy, but I understand, appreciate and applaud the fact that Harvard makes a modest room for the highly-qualified children of its own alumni.</p>

90

<p>I doubt that EndLegacies is a current Harvard dude, prove it! He’s just a dude did not get into Harvard … There’s no need to call Harvard Admission.</p>

91

<p>Legacy status is considered a “feather on the scale;” it is not enough procure admission for an unqualified applicant.</p>

<p>EndLegacies, those happy alumni whose children are admitted are more likely to give money to the university. Harvard’s enormous endowment is what makes the university’s generous financial aid policies possible. I attended Harvard back in the Dark Ages, and, yes, there were a number of students whose family names adorned various campus buildings. I had absolutely no problem with that. Do you know why? – Because their grandparents’ generosity made it possible for me to attend Harvard for less than what my state uni would have cost me.</p>

92

<p>

</p>

<p>I suppose here the “equal” thing is that Harvard legacies would get into Harvard at the rate of non-Harvard applicants. So, stellar Harvard legacies must now be disadvantaged so that their accomplishments get diminished to the overall status (if that could ever be measured!) of the pool itself. So, let’s encourage ACTIVE discrimination against quality Harvard legacies so that we crush their admit rate, even if they actually may be better than the pool as a whole. At the same time we are doing this, let’s be sure to bolster the less-that-stellar credentials of URMs and Athletes in order to make them more “equal” (or better, more than “equal”) to the pool – whew, solved that “inequality” didn’t we. Let’s see: discriminate against meritorious applicants merely because they happen to be legacies and discriminate for non-meritorious applications merely because they happen to be of color or can play lacrosse. OK, got it. That’s how you want Harvard admissions to run, really? I agree with shortcut, I think the poster is an imposter, as no Harvard student could generally be so unthinking in their arguments unless they, themselves, had had some thumb on the scale to get in that none of us can know.</p>

93

<p>The Duke study has been mentioned but not linked to a couple times in this thread.</p>

<p><a href=“http://public.econ.duke.edu/~psarcidi/grades_4.0.pdf[/url]”>http://public.econ.duke.edu/~psarcidi/grades_4.0.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Duke researchers assert that there is little change in the achievement gap once you control for major and course grading.</p>

94

<p>Hey everyone! I’m just wondering if anyone else got a little handwritten note at the bottom of their acceptance letter. Mine says (in what appears to be blue ballpoint pen) “Hope you’ll join us!”</p>

95

<p>I AM A CURRENT HARVARD STUDENT! I don’t know I how I can convince you of that. I will go to brunch today in Annenberg at noon and order egg whites from the grill (located in front of the first entrance to the food area, between the first two lines) and put them on an English muffin (which will be located at the right end of the sandwich line, the toaster will be in the food part next to the salad bar). There are 4 food lines in Annenberg, and we are the only dining hall with hot breakfast right now, and it opens every day at 7:30 am. I often eat oatmeal, which is located in the middle of the food area. They serve steel cut oatmeal every day, and the second hot cereal alternates between grits, cream of wheat, rolled oats, and maypo (my favorite). On Friday we couldn’t eat in Annenberg because the seniors had a fancy dinner there, so I ate in Quincy instead (my new house - go penguins!). After dinner on Sun.-Thurs. nights, the dining hall is open for brain break from 9:15 to 10:45, and it stay open until midnight but the food closes at 10:45. If you want to add whipped cream to your hot chocolate, you can go and get it in the fridge behind the food line. What else can I say. The image of Harvard is one of perpetuating inequality, but many of us here can’t stand that image and wish we could get rid of it.</p>

<p>With respect to your latest arguments, I really can’t respond to them today because I have a psych 15 (social psychology) midterm tomorrow in Science Center B, which I need to study for. Also with respect to “pity-party majors,” I entered as a physics concentrator. I took multivariable calculus, physics 15a, a seminar, and expos last semester. I got a 4.0. This semester, I’m switching to sociology because I like that better and feel it has more applicability to social problems. I bet you would call that a pity-party major, but in fact this semester has been much harder and involved far longer work hours than the last. If you are at Harvard, there is no such thing as a pity-party major. Duke has responded to the findings you cited. [Duke</a> Academic Leaders Respond to Concerns on Minorities in the Sciences | Duke Today](<a href=“http://today.duke.edu/2012/01/cllletter]Duke”>Duke Academic Leaders Respond to Concerns on Minorities in the Sciences | Duke Today)</p>

<p>To admitted students: I also got a personalized note on my admission last year. You should definitely come! I love it here, and I am sure you would too. The note on the admissions just shows how committed they are to undergraduates and helping us succeed. Congratulations! You’re in for a great four years! Come for Visitas, which should be a blast!</p>

96

<p>Decision: Accepted</p>

<p>Objective:[ul]
[<em>] SAT I (breakdown): 2200 (730/740/730)
[</em>] ACT: –
[<em>] SAT II: Frecnh w Listening 800, Math IIC 700, Literature 700
[</em>] Unweighted GPA (out of 4.0): N/A
[<em>] Rank (percentile if rank is unavailable): School doesn’t rank, but top 3 in class of 80?
[</em>] AP (place score in parenthesis): N/A
[<em>] IB (place score in parenthesis): Diploma candidate, predicted 45/45
[</em>] Senior Year Course Load: HL – English A1, Economics, French, History; SL – Math, Environmental Systems. Also, class at Stanford Online High School ("Democracy, Freedom, and the Rule of Law)
[<em>] Major Awards (USAMO, Intel etc.):
[/ul]Subjective:[ul]
[</em>] Extracurriculars (place leadership in parenthesis): Water polo (junior national team, junior and adult premier division player, captain of junior team, “assistant” coach for new players, awarded “Most Valuable Player” at an international tournament), lots of national+international MUN, incl. university level (also chairperson, ambassador, best delegate, etc), European Youth Parliament international alumnus, school musical, one year I was in my city’s Youth Council (channel to politicians), took arabic in the evenings of my junior year
[<em>] Job/Work Experience: Dishwasher and waiter during the summers (granted more and more responsibility over time)
[</em>] Volunteer/Community service: tidbits (e.g. proctoring entrance tests, etc), negligible
[<em>] Summer Activities: Sea Cadet for three straight summers
[</em>] Essays: Common App was about my closest friend and how she changed me, well written and effective, yet lacking as far as essays go (little concrete anecdotal evidence) still – 9/10
harvard supplement essay was about how my personality is reflected in how I shine my leather shoes – somewhat forced, but american adcoms like that fluff – 8/10
[<em>] Teacher Recommendation: One from my economics instructor, who knows how to tweak his recommendations – 9/10; one from my English teacher, didn’t read, but probably a solid 8/10
[</em>] Counselor Rec: Decent at best – 7/10
[<em>] Additional Rec: Rec from my officers in Sea Cadet Corps, detailing my leadership in both harsh and dangerous situations, and my overall congeniality – I wrote it myself and they signed it – 10/10
[</em>] Interview: first an alumni interview which was horrible (he didn’t ask a single question – had to force in stuff about myself edgewise), and a second one with admissions officer over skype – very far from impressive, but at least I didn’t make a fool of myself</p>

<p>[/ul]Other[ul]
[<em>] State (if domestic applicant):
[</em>] Country (if international applicant): Sweden
[<em>] School Type: Public
[</em>] Ethnicity:
[<em>] Gender: Male
[</em>] Income Bracket: Middle class
[li] Hooks (URM, first generation college, etc.): Athletics? But I didn’t apply as a recruit</p>[/li]
<p>[/ul]Reflection[ul]
[<em>] Strengths: Successful water polo player, very tangible leadership in Sea Cadets, also, I’m a dual citizen, which means they got all the exotics of an international, but I’m admitted need-blind :slight_smile:
[</em>] Weaknesses: SAT as well as Subject tests I guess, little administrative leadership (i.e. haven’t led any clubs, started any charities, etc)
[<em>] Why you think you were accepted/waitlisted/rejected: Water Polo and Sea Cadets, I think, along with an amiable personality portrayed in recs, interview, and essay
[</em>] Where else were you accepted/waitlisted/rejected: Accepted Penn, Waitlisted Yale, Rejected Dartmouth Columbia</p>

<p>[/ul]General Comments:
If you read this and think “this guy got in when I didn’t?”, I totally understand you. From my point of view, someone else should’ve had my spot. Definitely not complaining though!</p>

97

<p>nde - Yes, my son’s letter came with that little apparently-hand-written note, as well.</p>

98

<p>Decision: Rejected</p>

<p>Objective:[ul]
[<em>] SAT I (breakdown): 2270 (710 CR, 780 M, 780 W)
[</em>] ACT:
[<em>] SAT II: Math II 780, Literature 680
[</em>] Unweighted GPA (out of 4.0): 4.0
[<em>] Rank (percentile if rank is unavailable): 5/547
[</em>] AP (place score in parenthesis): Chemistry (3), World History (4), United States History (4), English Language and Composition (5), Psychology (5)
[<em>] IB (place score in parenthesis):
[</em>] Senior Year Course Load: AP Calculus BC, AP English Lit, AP Computer Science A, AP Physics B, AP Biology, French Level III
[<em>] Major Awards (USAMO, Intel etc.): National Merit Commended, AP Scholar with Distinction
[/ul]Subjective:[ul]
[</em>] Extracurriculars (place leadership in parenthesis): Gay-Straight Alliance (President), Speech and Debate (Treasurer), UIL Math/Computer Science, self learning two languages, self learning guitar, work with middle school students/the town under district leadership program
[<em>] Job/Work Experience: None
[</em>] Volunteer/Community service: Medical/dental clinic with a lot of patients who didn’t speak English, hospital, tutoring (including some foreign language stuff and English to ESL/immigrant students)
[<em>] Summer Activities: See volunteer/community service.
[</em>] Essays: Passable/good?
[<em>] Teacher Recommendation: Decent. From my physics teacher and psychology teacher.
[</em>] Counselor Rec: Really great! He knows me and my story pretty well and his letter reflected that.
[<em>] Additional Rec: N/A
[</em>] Interview: It was amazing! Really casual, engaging and interesting conversation that could have lasted for a few hours if my father hadn’t arrived to pick me up haha. I left not wanting to leave honestly. Discussed our mutual sentiments towards being surrounded by people with drive, intelligence, documentaries, books, and a bunch of other stuff. We actually gave each other book and documentary recommendations.</p>

<p>[/ul]Other[ul]
[<em>] State (if domestic applicant): TX
[</em>] Country (if international applicant):
[<em>] School Type: Large public school
[</em>] Ethnicity: Asian-American
[<em>] Gender: Female
[</em>] Income Bracket: Upper middle.
[li] Hooks (URM, first generation college, etc.): None.</p>[/li]
<p>[/ul]Reflection[ul]
[<em>] Strengths: Counselor rec, ECs (LGTBQ), female interested in computer science as a major, essays?
[</em>] Weaknesses: Counselor rec, ECs, female interested in computer science as a major, essays?
[<em>] Why you think you were accepted/waitlisted/rejected: Like I said, pretty average amongst those who are above average.
[</em>] Where else were you accepted/waitlisted/rejected: Accepted Penn (likely), Tulane (EA), UT Dallas, UPitt. Waitlisted Brown. Rejected Yale.</p>

<p>[/ul]General Comments: I am so excited for the upcoming year and am glad I went with the strategy of only applying to schools I love. It makes every acceptance feel absolutely great, though it does leave one a bit undecided. After some thought though, I’m hoping to join the Penn Class of 2016 if it all works out. I wish all y’all the best!</p>

99

<p>The problem is that “merit” is interpreted quite subjectively by the admissions officers.</p>

100

<p>EndLegacies,</p>

<p>Bravo! I admired your courage. The college applications should ban mentioning of parents’ education background. The admissions should be based the student’s own merits.</p>