***Official Thread for 2020 BSMD applicants***

[srk2017]

@2FutureBSMDsMom

Hi all, I am posting after a long time. My dc got into below schools and we are having tough time deciding which route to take. Your views and suggestions are appreciated.

Undergrad acceptances:
University of Michigan,Vanderbilt University ,University of Rochester,Rice and Case western.

BSMD acceptances:
Union/AMC, MSU DO, TCNJ/NJMS, still waiting to hear back from Cincinnati BSMD

I will post soon on the results thread once my DC makes decision, thanks everyone for being so helpful over the past year.

Need stats, competitiveness of HS, scholarships at UGs, family financial strength and students and parents expectations as per medical career to give an opinion. Otherwise if you are sure about being doctor take BSMD (bird in hand) or traditional path is not as bad as BASMD advocates claim responses

[md2be2028]

@Vicky2019

Undergrad route (Top UG/IVY) to medical school can be very long and usually requires gap years. You need to be patient and need lots of determination. You can then achieve what you want. You may also realize that your dreams/aspirations have changed along the way. this is not at all bad. Every journey is interesting and we need all kinds of people in this world.

You mentioned management consultancy. I feel ivy league education paves the road well for this profession. I personally know (friends & relatives) who pursued this path and are very successful.

Thank you @Vicky2019 for your perspective!
Could you please elaborate more on WHY Ivy undergrad route usually requires gap years?

[md2be2028]

@PPofEngrDr

It is premature to assume, one way the other, based on those stats.

I guess ultimately it depends on how much effort I’d like to put into… the sweet spot of work/life balance is what I’d like to have for my undergrad experience. (i.e. work hard yet still have time to enjoy a normal college experience)

[md2be2028]

@rk2017

I am pretty sure Wall Street Journal and Times higher considered the institution as a whole while placing UPenn 4th on their list of college ratings, and not based on a sub section of it.

If some folks (not all) belonging to a particular school there have attitude issues, that is their problem, not yours. Let it not be a factor in the decision making.

Have already answered above about possible transfer to Wharton. One can still minor in interested areas I believe.

Competition will be a matter of fact considering the caliber of students there, especially from those who made it through RD.
But UPenn is not known to be a particularly grade deflated school like some others.

Yes, the campus is not that spectacular, typical urban campus.
Duke’s may be the most impressive of the three.

Thank you @rk2017 for your POV!
I am seriously debating between Penn and Duke as right now. …

Another factor is: as my family live in California, I’m planning to come back to Cali eventually for medical school (Stanford, UCLA, CUSF) if possible. I heard top medical schools prefer to have fresh blood from other schools other than themselves’…i.e. if I go to UCLA for UG, I may not have higher change to get into UCLA med school…vice versa for Duke and Penn. Is that true?

[srk2017]

@md2be2028

@rk2017

I am pretty sure Wall Street Journal and Times higher considered the institution as a whole while placing UPenn 4th on their list of college ratings, and not based on a sub section of it.

If some folks (not all) belonging to a particular school there have attitude issues, that is their problem, not yours. Let it not be a factor in the decision making.

Have already answered above about possible transfer to Wharton. One can still minor in interested areas I believe.

Competition will be a matter of fact considering the caliber of students there, especially from those who made it through RD.
But UPenn is not known to be a particularly grade deflated school like some others.

Yes, the campus is not that spectacular, typical urban campus.
Duke’s may be the most impressive of the three.

Thank you @rk2017 for your POV!
I am seriously debating between Penn and Duke as right now. …

Another factor is: as my family live in California, I’m planning to come back to Cali eventually for medical school (Stanford, UCLA, CUSF) if possible. I heard top medical schools prefer to have fresh blood from other schools other than themselves’…i.e. if I go to UCLA for UG, I may not have higher change to get into UCLA med school…vice versa for Duke and Penn. Is that true?

I heard UCLA doesn’t give any preference to their UGs.

[srk2017]

@md2be2028

@PPofEngrDr

It is premature to assume, one way the other, based on those stats.

I guess ultimately it depends on how much effort I’d like to put into… the sweet spot of work/life balance is what I’d like to have for my undergrad experience. (i.e. work hard yet still have time to enjoy a normal college experience)

How much time did you spend on studying to get As in HS?

[Vicky2019]

@srk2017

@Vicky2019

@GoldenRock

@ubsmd2020

If you are considering Georgetown for EAP, then as well go to RPI/AMC.

But there is nothing wrong if you don’t like location of RPI & AMC and want to try via UPenn. Life everything is relative. If you have lived in Detroit downtown or South Chicago or East Palo Alto, it is easy to adjust to Albany & Troy. But if you are from Martha Vineyard or Hollywood, it is not going to be the same. But if you are open to adapt for short time (7 years in life it is only around 7-8% of time) then RPI/AMC.

I was also not thrilled when I visited Albany and Troy but will adapt if there is a need.
I know a friend’s D from rich Menlo Park went to RPI/AMC. She liked both UG and MD programs but hated both location. Don’t know where she is doing her residency now.

Since you have a good UG and not feeling great about RPI/AMC location, just go with what your gut feelings says. You can still get in to regular MD cycle if you are determined.

@ubsmd2020 - My pick would be RPI/AMC if you are determined to be a Doctor. If you have any doubts then by all means go to UPenn.

As I mentioned to @md2be2028 and to my son as well that undergrad route (Top UG/IVY) to medical school can be very long and usually requires gap years. You need to be patient and need lots of determination. You should also be open to pursuing other options.

Education is just one part of life. You need work-life balance.

You need gap years only if you fail to get > 3.7 GPA. None of the kids I know who went Ivies took gap years. You need to have a plan and execute it. Don’t think you know everything since you are college and listen to parents

Well, we obviously are not talking about the same set/type of people

But, seriously - I assumed all serious students who apply to BS/MD needed to first answer the question -“BSMD or Top UG” before proceeding with BSMD applications. According to me, this is the most important choice before even applying to BS MD programs!

[GoldenRock]

@md2be2028

Choose between whatever you have finalized Penn/Duke/UCLA based on your criteria for UG selection. Do not spend too much time whether if I study in their UG the chances are more or less to get admission to their COM. These factors are the noisy factors and total distraction. Lot of times we tend to spend/waste 90% of energy on 10% of factors which no one knows and spend 10% of energy which matters 90% of the time.

For example, is GPA critical? absolutely. If you can get get GPA some ball mark number 3.8 or so in Duke / Penn / UCLA, then just go for for it.
Can you score at least 515+ MCAT score. Is your UG selection matters for this. Absolutely not. You study and score in MCAT.
Can you do all the ECs in any of the 3 colleges? Absolutely. All the schools have good extensive research and neighborhood has / should have under-served population and / or hospitals to validate your passion.

Second, there is nothing wrong about dreaming big, which is important especially at your age. But don’t get hung up, I want to find a UG so that I will get in to Stanford / UCSF / UCLA medical college. Some time take one step at a time. It is too early to worry or focus on that aspect. First select a UG and do well and see you are in the right trajectory for your GPA and ECs. Worry about college list to apply when in junior year 6 months before you apply for regular MD cycle.

Though CA has many medical colleges, few of them highly ranked (human nature we are obsessed with ranking) and CA produces maximum of MD applicants because of extensive and huge public UC schools and demography which is influenced by parents than allowing students to find their passion.

[Vicky2019]

@md2be2028

@Vicky2019

Undergrad route (Top UG/IVY) to medical school can be very long and usually requires gap years. You need to be patient and need lots of determination. You can then achieve what you want. You may also realize that your dreams/aspirations have changed along the way. this is not at all bad. Every journey is interesting and we need all kinds of people in this world.

You mentioned management consultancy. I feel ivy league education paves the road well for this profession. I personally know (friends & relatives) who pursued this path and are very successful.

Thank you @Vicky2019 for your perspective!
Could you please elaborate more on WHY Ivy undergrad route usually requires gap years?

One of the reasons why I think ivy route to medical school requires gap years is because of a few people I know since they were little -

I know a few people –

1. Harvard undergrad. A few gap years before Stanford
2. UChicago undergrad. One gap year before med school
3. Columbia undergrad (premed) with lot of research. Decided to take a management consultancy job]
4. Johns Hopkins undergrad (premed) with lot of research. Actually, applied to 30+ medical schools. Decided to take a job in a Biomedical research firm.
5. There are a few other kids who are currently studying in IVY leagues as premed but have not graduated yet.

However, there are many reasons why students choose BS MD path and decline seats to IVY/Top UGs. These are also the same reasons why I feel taking the IVY route is tougher for medical schools.

Some of the reasons are –

1. They want guaranteed seat in medical school
2. they feel that they will save time (accelerated programs, avoiding gap years)
3. they will save money (UG scholarship)
4. they want to avoid hard-work, stress required to prep for Medical school admissions (BSMD requirements are lower for med schools) and want to enjoy their undergrad years before the med school.
5. If the students have proper stats/ECs for BS/MD programs, they want to avoid the medical application cycle, interview during the undergrad. For example, if a HS student has stellar stats but no medical ECs, they are unlikely to apply BSMD programs)
6. ORM students have a tougher competition in general for med schools.

Ivy league schools range from #1 (Princeton) to #19 (Cornell). I am assuming the selectivity of these schools varies. The kids who get into these are not of the same caliber. Ivy league is basically a sports league and choose majority of students with solid stats who are also very good/excellent at sports. Also, non-IVY several schools which are equal/better should also be considered, listing some here - MIT, Stanford, UChicago, Johns Hopkins, Duke, Northwestern, Rice, WashU etc.

DISCLAIMER – These are my opinions only. I am not for other people. Also, I am talking about an average student at IVY/Top UG. Obviously, there will be top students who excel at Ivy’s and do not need gap years before medical school.

[md2be2028]

@srk2017

How much time did you spend on studying to get As in HS?

Not much…I am a super procrastinator in HS and I managed to get As in all my 15 APs

[Vicky2019]

@md2be2028 - You are getting a variety of opinions. We are sharing what we believe in. What I say to you…is not just for you but for all interested people. No one knows you or your situation. You need to form your own decision and do what is best for you.

[rk2017]

@md2be2028

@srk2017

How much time did you spend on studying to get As in HS?

Not much…I am a super procrastinator in HS and I managed to get As in all my 15 APs

Trust me. It is not going to be the same in the college. How many of those AP tests have you got 5s in?

[srk2017]

@Vicky2019

@md2be2028

@Vicky2019

Undergrad route (Top UG/IVY) to medical school can be very long and usually requires gap years. You need to be patient and need lots of determination. You can then achieve what you want. You may also realize that your dreams/aspirations have changed along the way. this is not at all bad. Every journey is interesting and we need all kinds of people in this world.

You mentioned management consultancy. I feel ivy league education paves the road well for this profession. I personally know (friends & relatives) who pursued this path and are very successful.

Thank you @Vicky2019 for your perspective!
Could you please elaborate more on WHY Ivy undergrad route usually requires gap years?

One of the reasons why I think ivy route to medical school requires gap years is because of a few people I know since they were little -

I know a few people –

1. Harvard undergrad. A few gap years before Stanford
2. UChicago undergrad. One gap year before med school
3. Columbia undergrad (premed) with lot of research. Decided to take a management consultancy job]
4. Johns Hopkins undergrad (premed) with lot of research. Actually, applied to 30+ medical schools. Decided to take a job in a Biomedical research firm.
5. There are a few other kids who are currently studying in IVY leagues as premed but have not graduated yet.

However, there are many reasons why students choose BS MD path and decline seats to IVY/Top UGs. These are also the same reasons why I feel taking the IVY route is tougher for medical schools.

Some of the reasons are –

1. They want guaranteed seat in medical school
2. they feel that they will save time (accelerated programs, avoiding gap years)
3. they will save money (UG scholarship)
4. they want to avoid hard-work, stress required to prep for Medical school admissions (BSMD requirements are lower for med schools) and want to enjoy their undergrad years before the med school.
5. If the students have proper stats/ECs for BS/MD programs, they want to avoid the medical application cycle, interview during the undergrad. For example, if a HS student has stellar stats but no medical ECs, they are unlikely to apply BSMD programs)
6. ORM students have a tougher competition in general for med schools.

Ivy league schools range from #1 (Princeton) to #19 (Cornell). I am assuming the selectivity of these schools varies. The kids who get into these are not of the same caliber. Ivy league is basically a sports league and choose majority of students with solid stats who are also very good/excellent at sports. Also, non-IVY several schools which are equal/better should also be considered, listing some here - MIT, Stanford, UChicago, Johns Hopkins, Duke, Northwestern, Rice, WashU etc.

DISCLAIMER – These are my opinions only. I am not for other people. Also, I am talking about an average student at IVY/Top UG. Obviously, there will be top students who excel at Ivy’s and do not need gap years before medical school.

WHy did the kids you know took gap years? Some kids take gap years to get industry experience, while others take gap years to fill the deficiencies (GPA, ECs or no time for MCAP prep).

Also, most students don’t mind one or two gap years but parents are totally opposed to it for variety of reasons.

[srk2017]

@md2be2028

@srk2017

How much time did you spend on studying to get As in HS?

Not much…I am a super procrastinator in HS and I managed to get As in all my 15 APs

How competitive is your HS? Did you get 5s in all science APs? Any other academic achievements like Olympiads?

[Vicky2019]

@srk2017

@Vicky2019

@md2be2028

@Vicky2019

Undergrad route (Top UG/IVY) to medical school can be very long and usually requires gap years. You need to be patient and need lots of determination. You can then achieve what you want. You may also realize that your dreams/aspirations have changed along the way. this is not at all bad. Every journey is interesting and we need all kinds of people in this world.

You mentioned management consultancy. I feel ivy league education paves the road well for this profession. I personally know (friends & relatives) who pursued this path and are very successful.

Thank you @Vicky2019 for your perspective!
Could you please elaborate more on WHY Ivy undergrad route usually requires gap years?

One of the reasons why I think ivy route to medical school requires gap years is because of a few people I know since they were little -

I know a few people –

1. Harvard undergrad. A few gap years before Stanford
2. UChicago undergrad. One gap year before med school
3. Columbia undergrad (premed) with lot of research. Decided to take a management consultancy job]
4. Johns Hopkins undergrad (premed) with lot of research. Actually, applied to 30+ medical schools. Decided to take a job in a Biomedical research firm.
5. There are a few other kids who are currently studying in IVY leagues as premed but have not graduated yet.

However, there are many reasons why students choose BS MD path and decline seats to IVY/Top UGs. These are also the same reasons why I feel taking the IVY route is tougher for medical schools.

Some of the reasons are –

1. They want guaranteed seat in medical school
2. they feel that they will save time (accelerated programs, avoiding gap years)
3. they will save money (UG scholarship)
4. they want to avoid hard-work, stress required to prep for Medical school admissions (BSMD requirements are lower for med schools) and want to enjoy their undergrad years before the med school.
5. If the students have proper stats/ECs for BS/MD programs, they want to avoid the medical application cycle, interview during the undergrad. For example, if a HS student has stellar stats but no medical ECs, they are unlikely to apply BSMD programs)
6. ORM students have a tougher competition in general for med schools.

Ivy league schools range from #1 (Princeton) to #19 (Cornell). I am assuming the selectivity of these schools varies. The kids who get into these are not of the same caliber. Ivy league is basically a sports league and choose majority of students with solid stats who are also very good/excellent at sports. Also, non-IVY several schools which are equal/better should also be considered, listing some here - MIT, Stanford, UChicago, Johns Hopkins, Duke, Northwestern, Rice, WashU etc.

DISCLAIMER – These are my opinions only. I am not for other people. Also, I am talking about an average student at IVY/Top UG. Obviously, there will be top students who excel at Ivy’s and do not need gap years before medical school.

WHy did the kids you know took gap years? Some kids take gap years to get industry experience, while others take gap years to fill the deficiencies (GPA, ECs or no time for MCAP prep).

Also, most students don’t mind one or two gap years but parents are totally opposed to it for variety of reasons.

I don’t disagree with what you are saying, I just have a different way of thinking!

Bull or Bear

Republicans or Democrats

Blue or Red

Top UG or BSMD

Which one is right? It depends, based on their perspective.

I feel teens in this forum need to hear both the sides to form their opinions

[md2be2028]

@srk2017

How competitive is your HS? Did you get 5s in all science APs? Any other academic achievements like Olympiads?

My HS is semi-competitive. I got 10 5s (4 for AP Euro) among the 11 APs I have taken up to now (need to take the last 4 next month). My GPA, SAT, and overall stats ranked as #1 out of ~600.
I did not participate any competition like Olympiads as I don’t think our school organize/proactively support those.
I did 2 year university level research at a nearby UC school and had 1 publication based on my research project. I also volunteered and shadowed at a local clinic for 2 years.

Thinking back, I might should apply for some BSMD programs…but I just couldn’t (still can’t:) fully commit to medical without really exploring much, let alone to lock into one school/location for 7-8 years.

[md2be2028]

Thank you @GoldenRock! I really appreciate your advice and perspective.

[md2be2028]

@Vicky2019

I don’t disagree with what you are saying, I just have a different way of thinking!

Bull or Bear

Republicans or Democrats

Blue or Red

Top UG or BSMD

Which one is right? It depends, based on their perspective.

I feel teens in this forum need to hear both the sides to form their opinions

@Vicky2019, @srk2017 I truly appreciate both of your perspectives! It is just hard for me to make a life-long career commitment at 17…

[srk2017]

@Vicky2019

@srk2017

@Vicky2019

@md2be2028

@Vicky2019

Undergrad route (Top UG/IVY) to medical school can be very long and usually requires gap years. You need to be patient and need lots of determination. You can then achieve what you want. You may also realize that your dreams/aspirations have changed along the way. this is not at all bad. Every journey is interesting and we need all kinds of people in this world.

You mentioned management consultancy. I feel ivy league education paves the road well for this profession. I personally know (friends & relatives) who pursued this path and are very successful.

Thank you @Vicky2019 for your perspective!
Could you please elaborate more on WHY Ivy undergrad route usually requires gap years?

One of the reasons why I think ivy route to medical school requires gap years is because of a few people I know since they were little -

I know a few people –

1. Harvard undergrad. A few gap years before Stanford
2. UChicago undergrad. One gap year before med school
3. Columbia undergrad (premed) with lot of research. Decided to take a management consultancy job]
4. Johns Hopkins undergrad (premed) with lot of research. Actually, applied to 30+ medical schools. Decided to take a job in a Biomedical research firm.
5. There are a few other kids who are currently studying in IVY leagues as premed but have not graduated yet.

However, there are many reasons why students choose BS MD path and decline seats to IVY/Top UGs. These are also the same reasons why I feel taking the IVY route is tougher for medical schools.

Some of the reasons are –

1. They want guaranteed seat in medical school
2. they feel that they will save time (accelerated programs, avoiding gap years)
3. they will save money (UG scholarship)
4. they want to avoid hard-work, stress required to prep for Medical school admissions (BSMD requirements are lower for med schools) and want to enjoy their undergrad years before the med school.
5. If the students have proper stats/ECs for BS/MD programs, they want to avoid the medical application cycle, interview during the undergrad. For example, if a HS student has stellar stats but no medical ECs, they are unlikely to apply BSMD programs)
6. ORM students have a tougher competition in general for med schools.

Ivy league schools range from #1 (Princeton) to #19 (Cornell). I am assuming the selectivity of these schools varies. The kids who get into these are not of the same caliber. Ivy league is basically a sports league and choose majority of students with solid stats who are also very good/excellent at sports. Also, non-IVY several schools which are equal/better should also be considered, listing some here - MIT, Stanford, UChicago, Johns Hopkins, Duke, Northwestern, Rice, WashU etc.

DISCLAIMER – These are my opinions only. I am not for other people. Also, I am talking about an average student at IVY/Top UG. Obviously, there will be top students who excel at Ivy’s and do not need gap years before medical school.

WHy did the kids you know took gap years? Some kids take gap years to get industry experience, while others take gap years to fill the deficiencies (GPA, ECs or no time for MCAP prep).

Also, most students don’t mind one or two gap years but parents are totally opposed to it for variety of reasons.

I don’t disagree with what you are saying, I just have a different way of thinking!

Bull or Bear

Republicans or Democrats

Blue or Red

Top UG or BSMD

Which one is right? It depends, based on their perspective.

I feel teens in this forum need to hear both the sides to form their opinions

I am not disputing what you are saying. My question was, do you know why those Ivy kids took gap years?

[srk2017]

@md2be2028

@srk2017

How competitive is your HS? Did you get 5s in all science APs? Any other academic achievements like Olympiads?

My HS is semi-competitive. I got 10 5s (4 for AP Euro) among the 11 APs I have taken up to now (need to take the last 4 next month). My GPA, SAT, and overall stats ranked as #1 out of ~600.
I did not participate any competition like Olympiads as I don’t think our school organize/proactively support those.
I did 2 year university level research at a nearby UC school and had 1 publication based on my research project. I also volunteered and shadowed at a local clinic for 2 years.

Thinking back, I might should apply for some BSMD programs…but I just couldn’t (still can’t:) fully commit to medical without really exploring much, let alone to lock into one school/location for 7-8 years.

You are a strong student. Since you are not sure about medicine, my recommendation is got to UPenn. Since you have research experience you should be able to find research easily at Penn.