@orm2022 Looking back on my post. I incorrectly noted Pitt honors…that is set to come out this month I understand…I meant to note Pitt with scholarship and Bsmd app invite.
Per the other point about education being competition between dads I’m not sure I follow? I in no way intend competition, I really have not been responsible in any direct way for any of my children’s ups or downs. What they achieve ( or not ) is on their own merit. As to the point of affordability , that money is still a lot of money to me. But each of us make a decision of value and how we are willing to sacrifice for what we perceive as value. Personally I grew up in a very blue collar family, father worked on assembly line. I remember the late 70’s ala Carter era when economy was crap we qualified for government food assistance we were that level of poor. (Anyone remember government cheese?) Anyway later when I was accepted to a good school although I received financial assistance there was still a portion my parents sacrificed to pay…that 10k/yr or so it was for them back then was just as substantial a sacrifice as 80/yr to me today. I dare say perhaps even more so. Anyway they made a choice to invest in me. The results have paid off. I learned something from that…now I will pay it forward and invest in my children even if it means sacrificing my own personal wishes or desires. I also realize my child may sit along side a kid next year who is paying 1/10 of what he is paying for the same seats… But that kid he is sitting next to was me 35 years ago and knowing that I feel no sense of I’ll feeling in paying full cost.
I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer to this and I feel everyone’s situation and comfort level is different and I very much respect that for sure!
@PAdude hats off.
@PPofEngrDr , thanks for the response! So do you suggest her to retake SAT?
Anyone received interview invites from TCNJ/NJMS, and BU recently?
@PAdude : Your past is our present 
Love to discuss a bit more about financial burden with parents here. Say a doctor graduated at age 30 with a student loan of 500k , and 7% annual interest rate . By when can this be paid back ?
Is 10 years of $5000/month or $60,000 reasonable ? So by age 40 , one will be debt free. Assume primary care , not a heart surgeon 
Or 500k can be paid back in 5 years or less ??
Just wanted an estimation here to have a better decision.
@ 2FutureBSMDsMom, we are still waiting on both
@PAdude- welcome to minority of parents who argue for open mind approach to BSMD vs traditional path decision making 
I had same arguments for last 2 cycle threads. My DS declined BSMD acceptance for traditional route in 2017 and no regrets so far.
I think I leave the ratio discussion after this post.
If there are 10,000 applications for 150 seats, the probability of getting an admission is 1.5%.
If they give offers to more students, say 250, the probability is 2.5%.
In the end, for that specific college, the probability ratio is in the 1.5% to 2.5% range and that is what you have to contend with.
I understand you or others may not agree and I will respectfully agree to disagree.
EMT certification is generally looked positively but is one factor among many.
Re: ACT vs SAT
My understanding On how colleges do equivalency is the following:
1600 SAT = 36 ACT
1570 SAT = 35 ACT
@PPofEngrDr : If you apply to all top 40 x 2.5% medical school, then you get to 100% acceptance rate
Numbers give an idea but don’t tell the whole story. It is simplistic and perhaps even naive to look at some numbers, calculations and semantics and jump to conclusions ignoring realities on the ground.
Not 40% but I doubt if even the top 20% of serious pre med students of every batch get into med schools in a given year or later following gap years. And these are not the freshmen pre med declares I am referring to, but who stay the course all through, survive multiple rounds of weeding out and with serious aspirations.
To give an example of the fallacy of looking at numbers, it is like in the BS/MD domain, an ORM student or parent of one with excellent credentials setting high hopes on Brown PLME looking at the high intake of 60+ into the program every year (equivalent of 3 or 4 programs put together).
Just a superficial glance at the quoted 21k and 40% figures revealed to me that it encompasses both allopathic and osteopathic programs. What is the split of the stats between the two? Do these numbers give details on what criteria are important for med schools and how many slots go to students for each of those categories on a regular basis? Like for example socio economic - URM, first generation college grads, applicants from under served communities, those with unique life experiences … ?
After setting apart slots for all these how many are realistic numbers left over for ORMs and others? Are applicants willing to go to any med school they are accepted into including DO? What about candidates from fancy undergrad brand names with the prestige hangover who may have to settle for some non fancy med school? Qualitative aspects like such.
I have no incentive in going through all this analysis and numbers since I am neither a counselor nor a parent with a child on course for these paths. So I won’t invest my time and interest on these. My advice is to look from multiple angles, look at the reality on field, and not come to some simplistic conclusions. Hope each one here will come with the best possible decision most appropriate to your own situation.
@orm2020
Loan payback is hard to nail down as there (in my opinion) two factors…the financials which are easy to compute…have a salary, deduct taxes etc and decide how much you will payback each year…the second factor is the variable and that’s the psychology of the debt…remember this “individual” has been in school /training for better part 11-15 years…some get out and start making money and they feel (perhaps justified) they should be able to own a BMW or buy a house, or an expensive purse…whatever…point is they see many of their friends who didn’t go to school already living " real lives" and they feel they should too…so the money goes to other priorities then loan repayment. Also by that point in life some may be married, have a kid or kids themselves…so it’s hard to account for those variables…that said I can give you part one:
I had about 260k of debt when all done…I paid it off in 3 and 1/2 years… I was aggressive and lived frugally. I was married and had a child also. My wife also worked.
So you can do your own numbers based on primary care…out patient primary care ( reccomend internal med as opposed to family practice…more options) salary initial would be 220-240k . Inpatient internal med aka hospitalist slary would be 300k on average…doing extra shifts could make upwards of 400k. …those are easy coast real numbers…I feel most of those MGMA salary data is under reported…
So realistically 500k debt you should be able to do payback in 5 years…
Above being said if my young reality is your today reality that is why I would always reccomend a family with income sub 100k annually should always look at prestige schools with big endowments… there is huge financial aid from these schools …much more so then what’s offered by most (not all) of these BSMD programs…if a kid is financial aid eligible at a big financial aid school and gets in…i.e Princeton, Yale, UPenn etc where they meet 100% of financial need, why go to to a BSMD whose undergrad is getting 50k or more and gives much less aid to that same student? Just for the gaurantee? If they are that competitive a student anyway it’s my opinion…and I stress OPINION…they will get into med school anyway…and without the debt…
Hope some of that is of help…
It is a half-time.
@NoviceDad
that is true as admission probability but that is not same as matriculation rate. I also leave it there at this point.
So one should apply to 50 to get to 125%. And not every BS/MD programs falls into top 40, there are very few, rest are just business tactics.
Bottom line if you want to be in good SOM (Every BS/MD is not necessarily good SOM), not just any possible out there, one should be in top 4 quadrants of AMCAS table.
@PAdude I can’t disagree any point of #1716. Besides few good BS/MD programs, rest are nothing but UG business and selling a seat to highly qualified candidates who otherwise can easily find a seat in traditional route.
@rk2017 understand you have no interest in analyzing data for traditional route. However most of questions you raise for traditional route can be answered through various AMCAS reports if one decides to put time in, not just create fear mongering by just raising questions and create a fallacy that if you get any BS/MD seat just blindly accept it. There are lots of qualified and talented kids who thrives as good as any BS/MD kids and even in some cases better than BS/MD because traditional route candidate is more sharpened over the years.
Fear of gap years, fact is that ~35% kids matriculates w/o gap year, even if one take 5% of BS/MD out, it is still ~30% w/o gap years.
Same BS/MD cheerleader folks runaway from WashU BS/MD, because of high requirements to maintain, so again one is looking for convenience not necessarily quality of program. If BS/MD program seriously values quality of program, they should raise it to par with traditional route, like WashU and lately NU started doing to, not devalue it because they want to sell UG seats. If those BS/MD students are afraid of high requirements of program they should seriously consider their career choice as SOM is just beginning.
Weed out - If weed out criteria applies to BS/MD students, guarantee you lots of program would struggle too hence low requirements to maintain as selling point.
I standby my assessment over the years that only few BS/MD programs are good, not all, fear mongering doesn’t help any candidates or their families.
@PAdude : Your feedback is extremely valuable. Now I worry less if my child get accepted into a BSMD program
I would let him determine to take up a portion of financial burden instead .
Had learned a lot from everyone today Thanks you all for the efforts putting in to help an anxious parent !
I finished reading last year 's post , and find that NJMS is indeed a better med school than my previous understanding.
@PPofEngrDr : You got my point exactly
Whatever path one chose, keep the confidence !
I use “Collegeboard Guide to the 2018 ACT/SAT Concordance” for conversion. You can search it for it.
Please maintain your dignity by not resorting to accusations like fear mongering and such on others.
No one here has any vested interest in doing so.
@rk2017 Not accusing anyone as everyone is entitled to their opinion. If anyone has read enough posts, not just this year but also last few years, there are plenty of those behaviors that I warned about. When people do that it is not necessarily purposefully.
Most of folks here have less than 100 candidates direct, non-direct, hearsay experiences of BS/MD and SOMs and that is not whole MD field.
I don’t blindly cheer-lead any path, BS/MD or traditional.
Sorry to all my east coast friends here, it was a bad NFL playoff weekend for eastcoast.