<p>kttmom, I’m feeling the weight of responsibility for overly influencing your decision not to visit Rice! Obviously you have lots of time to decide- it wouldn’t be until September/October, correct? </p>
<p>Much depends on your child and his ability to evaluate the coach, the school, the town, the other students, travel issues, undergrad housing choices, financial issues and so on. By the time my daughter was doing officials, she had visited over 20 campuses, for unofficial athletic visits, camps, academic competitions, friend visits and so on. She had become very savvy about what she was looking for, and employed a very critical process to evaluate schools. By fall of her senior year, it was clear to me that she would be able to make visits and figure things out without me. </p>
<p>The second major factor in this was that for the schools on her official visit list, and in her sport, it was definitely not the norm for parents to come along. She now works in the coach’s office (undergrad work/study). It is clear to her that student athletes who show the maturity and independence to make the trip alone are seen in a better light than those who show up with a parent in tow. This was a bit hard for me to accept when we were looking forward to the official visits, but now that I see the level of personal responsibility a student/athlete must have, I understand why a coach would be looking for athletes who step up and make the visits solo.</p>
<p>Each family will have to figure out how best to handle officials. If you worry that your child could be star-struck by the coach/exciting sleepover experience, and wouldn’t be able to properly evaluate a school, you should probably go along, or plan a separate trip if the first one is favorable. It’s possible to learn a lot about a school without visiting, but I have to agree, there is no substitute for actually being there. It comes down to whether you are the one who has to be there, or if the child has the maturity and presence to get everything out of the visit your family would need to make a good decision.</p>
<p>Please understand, I’m not judging maturity of the kid based on which parents go on visits- each family has it’s own comfort level with the process involved in making this huge decision.</p>
<p>Whether it is appropriate for a parent to attend the OV or not probably varies by the sport and the type of school. Riverrunner’s D was looking at top academic schools such as Ivies which do not offer athletic scholarships, and academic top tier Div. 3 schools which also do not. These are elite schools which require a high level of maturity and independence of their applicants. 4 of my D’s 5 official visits were also to Ivies. In that world I think it is less common for parents to accompany athletes for official visits. </p>
<p>But for Div. 1 programs where NLI contracts and scholarship money are involved, it seems there is more parental involvement in the process. After all, parents have to sign the NLI too, not just the athlete. If the movies I’ve seen are a true indication, the recruiting for football and other men’s helmet sports seems to involve the family more than is the case for other sports.</p>
<p>Also, take the cue from the coach. While I had wanted to visit that far away school and initially planned to do so, I later decided that I wouldn’t go after all. For one thing, money was tight, and we also worried about seeming over-protective. But then the coach asked D if anyone was visiting along with her. I think he also told her that the other recruit was bringing her dad. This told us that in his world (big Div. 1), parents tend to want to come along on OVs. When he informed D that they’d pay for my hotel, that let us know that this is something customary that they budget for. So I went. The other schools on D’s list did not make a similar offer, though apparently they did accommodate parents who wanted to come since D said some girls brought family members. I don’t think the Ivies generally pay anything for family, however.</p>
<p>This vist would happen next week or the week after. My S is currently a senior and is planning to start school at Cornell in a few months (August 2010) and this is a fluke thing. </p>
<p>At a game a couple weeks ago about 10 major league scouts (not college - major league) were there to look at a kid on the other team and my son was the only one on our team hitting the kids 95 mph pitches, so 3 of the scouts talked to him and his coach afterwards. One scout (Rangers maybe) said his brother is the coach at Rice and he was going to call him about my S. We thought nothing would come of it, but the Rice coach did call my S’s coach and said he wanted my S to come down next weeknd.</p>
<p>So we are new to this whole thing- he’s never been on any recruiting trips, never talked to any coaches, never done any overnights. We were concentrating on academics in our college search and figured he would play club in college. </p>
<p>He HAS been on lots of college tours (with us) and he has already put down a deposit at Cornell. If this pans out he will have a difficult decision to make - which is why I thought we should have a feel for Rice and the possible fit for him academically/socially.</p>
<p>I still don’t believe anything will come of it, but it’s a big stroke for my S’s ego and he is having a great senior baseball year (hitting lots of homeruns and pitching great) - and he will be going to a great school no matter what happens. So we’ll see… but one of us will be going to Texas if he goes.</p>
<p>That is so exciting! Did no one ever give your son an indication before this that he was that talented and good enough to be recuited for baseball? Or is it that he just recently came into his own with the sport? Who knows who else might have wanted him?</p>
<p>ktt, wow that is exciting. Some athlete, especially baseball players, develop into real stars in college…sometimes that star ability is not that apparent in high school. Usually has to do with getting bigger and stronger, pro ball players are big dudes.</p>
<p>I do know that MLB uses college baseball to develop the kids they’re interested in, it’s somewhat replaced the minor league system back in the day. a great ball player may go pro right out of hs or after a couple years in college. btw: the thinking is you go pro when the opportunity comes, take the money, have the experience, and go back and finish your education later…the danger for a money sport kid is an injury before he goes pro.</p>
<p>kid from around here left a big name college before graduating and signed with a pro team. 1 million plus a year! I think he’s on their minor league team for now, but for that kind of money they’re grooming him for the show! He’ll finish his education later:)</p>
<p>kttmom, you’re so right about this being two great schools. Have you been reading up on Rice? Their residential college system is such a great model for undergrad living, in my opinion. My good friend has a daughter graduating from Rice this month, who had an exceptional college experience. I would equate it with the Ivies in many ways. How to choose? How does he feel about heat? The contrast in climates is almost the extreme ends of the spectrum available in the US! Playing ball in the Texas heat and humidity might be a deal breaker for some kids…same goes for the legendary cold and snow for Cornell. Interesting choices!</p>
<p>Regarding the heat issue: do make sure you ask about practice times. They may be earlier than your S will want to get up. A school in Florida was recruiting D, but the 6:30AM practices were a dealbreaker for her!</p>
<p>S is a bit worried about the heat. He doesn’t mind the cold at all, so Cornell weather was fine with him. I have told him that he won’t be there in the worst of it (summer), and he’ll get to play ball outside all winter! We went to Florida in August a few years ago, so he has some concept of how bad it can be. Getting up early won’t bother him either - he does that for school now.</p>
<p>He did go to a couple baseball recruiting ‘camps’ last summer (one at Yale with all the Ivy schools there) but no one seemed interested in him. We figured his pitching (LH) was too slow (low 80’s). So he took private pitching lessons all winter - but it was just for the HS season - not for college, and he became a gym rat so he did really build up his muscles/strength. After the disappointing results at the camps we figured he would just play club. Plus he was looking at big sports schools (Mchigan/Penn State/Syracuse/Ivy’s), so we figured at those schools he had no chance of playing. He knew he could probably play at a DIII school (like Tufts where he also got accepted) but he wanted a bigger school.</p>
<p>Rice is NOT a big school, but he thinks he would give that up for the chance to play baseball there since they are so good. Interesting how priorities change. Personally I always liked the smaller schools (which is why Tufts remained on the list), but it was his choice - and still is. If this doesn’t work out his coach will call the Cornell coach and let him know what’s going on. His coach has already approached him this week with 2 other offers for DI schools in NY - neither of which have the academics he is looking for. At least we are all keeping that as a priority.</p>
<p>Yes, it’s very exciting! He has had away games the last 2 nights (getting home at 9pm), but is planning to call the Rice coach after practice today. Keep your fingers crossed for him!!</p>
<p>kttmom: Congratulations!! How exciting for your son!!! Two fabulous schools too, so he is set wherever he goes - but yes, two entirely different environments. No matter the end result, he is having a thriling experience no doubt - and very flattering too He really cannot lose, and how awesome to have Cornell all set, no matter what.</p>
<p>Also, please don’t apologize for “hijacking” my thread - everything on CC is for ALL of us, in my opinion - all I ever do is learn from other people’s posts - so thank you for joining in! </p>
<p>I agree with theGFGs point about the difference in potential parental involvement with official visits when significant scholarship money and/or NLIs are involved. Especially since the parent has to sign the NLI too - that does put a whole new twist on it. The school that has invited my daughter is an ivy, where we wouldn’t even receive financial aid, let alone an athletic scholarship, and one that we have visited together twice (once on a general tour, and once specifically to meet with coaches & for her to watch practice). At this point, I don’t have any real curiosity about the school, feeling I know all I need to know to happily support her decision if this is the school she chooses. </p>
<p>My main feeling that I am sharing with you is that I can’t believe that this has all really begun…!!! I definitely thought nothing would happen “formally” until after July 1st too, fogfog. Everything so far has obviously just been emails, unofficial visits, and telephone calls scheduled by my child and the coach, where she calls them. I am very happy for my daughter, but can’t believe that this is where we are so soon…of course, though, still a long way to go before the end of this road (“road” sounded less cynical than “game”!) …:)</p>
<p>Hi everyone…Great to hear about all your(DD or DS)successes.</p>
<p>Just putting my 2 cents in-my S did only D3 LACs(Midd, Amherst, Williams, Carleton etc) so no money for travel is involved.</p>
<p>We, like other parents here, went with him for most visits, but did not stay on campus, or accompany him other than at the “coach talk” where it seemed we were expected, and even welcomed. We did not ask questions, leaving them to our S.</p>
<p>He was mostly on his own, but could check in with us.</p>
<p>It worked well in our case. He made some very unofficial visits as a Junior to check things out, and spent several fall weekend/Mondays at his schools. It did cause some academic stress, so be careful, as grades are still important at these selective schools.</p>
<p>^^^^ You are so right about keeping the grades up, etc., and not getting too distracted, etc. - easier said than done no doubt, especially when dealing with 16 year olds! </p>
<p>Also, I wanted to add that when I write about supporting my daughter if she “chooses” a specific school, I really mean to say that IF she is lucky enough to actually be made a true, valid offer at, or after, an Official Visit - only then does she get to “choose”, seeing as she needs to receive the solid offer first! Verbals don’t really count enough to make me feel comfortable until Likely Letter/NLI time.</p>
<p>kttmom, I accompanied my son on his official visit to Rice in November (for track). When the coach called to arrange the trip, he said Rice could pay for DS’s airfare, but not mine. They DID pay for my hotel room, though, and I went out to breakfast with them one morning. They seemed to expect that I would come! We LOVED Rice. I’ve heard nothing but good about the school. DS ended up having a bad indoor track season and got injured, so he didn’t get a slot, but we will always remember what a good time we had on the visit.</p>
<p>Good luck to your son! That’s very exciting.</p>
<p>Right Mayhew, an important fact for D3 is that not all athletes encouraged to apply ED are accepted…nothing is in writing…It is important to ask for a “walk thru” before sending in that ED application.
At one selective D3 LAC last year “80% of recruited athletes who applied ED were accepted.” That means 20% were very disappointed, and perhaps felt led on.</p>
<p>Kittmom (I apologize in advance for thread drift):</p>
<p>Buyer beware when comparing Rice baseball and Ivy baseball. No question that Rice is a national baseball power and a top tier academic institution. No question that Ivy baseball is low end D1 and top tier academic institution(s). BUT, at Rice baseball (can only speak about baseball, not other sports) trumps academics. To illustrate this point look at the majors of the junior and senior players (not that many srs because of the draft) and compare that with the school profile. For an acclaimed engineering school, you will find a lack of engineering majors on the baseball team. That tells you a lot (really ALOT) about the near impossibility of playing baseball for a national power and attending the labs a player needs to have a science/engineering major.</p>
<p>There is no right or wrong answer to this issue – but make no mistake about the trade-offs of sports v. academics at the power baseball schools. The reason is the schedule – virtually every other week the players are gone for 3 academic days during the season (the season begins about 3/1). </p>
<p>Every coach at these power schools will tell you the same “academics comes first story” - but the proof is in the pudding. Ask them how many players graduated with that engineering/science degree (oh, they will tell you about the extreme end of the bell curve; but, . . .). We recently had a home visit from a top 25 baseball coach at a very good academic school. He was able to name one player – who was a bench player – over the past 4 years to graduate with a science major. Now, he was also able to reel off the names of dozens of players who were in proball over that same period.</p>
<p>Again, no right or wrong answer. Just the plain facts. The trade off – for baseball at least – is very real.</p>
<p>stemit -Thank you your words of caution. I have been having a hard time seeing what the profiles are for the Rice players - looking specifically to see how many if any are engineering majors. I can see that Cornell has several engineering majors on their roster, but haven’t been able to get this information from the Rice web site. It is definitely a concern we are aware of. There may be several ways to offset this such as using AP credits to take a lighter load Spring semester and/or planning on a 5 year program. But it is definitely something to think about and weigh in the decision.</p>
<p>I was able to glean the majors of 9 senior and junior Rice baseball players (the rest of the jrs and srs were not listed): Kinesiology 4; Economics 2 (one double major with kinesiology); Sports Management 2; History 1; Political science 1. </p>
<p>Compare that list with a 2004 list of the 10 most popular majors at Rice (albeit from 2004):</p>
<p>Majors with the Highest Percentages of Graduates
Economics 8.5% (60)
Electrical and Computer Engineering 7.0% (49)
English 6.4% (45)
History 5.5% (39)
Biochemistry 5.5% (39)
Biology 5.0% (33)
Bioengineering 4.7% (33)
Psychology 4.6% (32)
Political Science 4.4% (31)
Computer Science 4.4% (31) </p>
<p>Draw whatever conclusions – but science and engineering are extremley difficult majors for a baseball player-- not because of the inherent difficulty of the subject matter; but because of the labs and the inability to take lab based classes due the baseball schedule. (In most schools, 9 lab courses are needed to complete an engineering major. In 8 semesters! And, you cannot take the classes during the summer because the player will be playing summer collegiate baseball.)</p>
<p>AP credits can be used to take a somewhat lighter course load (note that you still need to take 9 credits [I think] a semester to remain eligible). But AP credits do not replace the necessary labs to major in science/engineering. Some schools do make accomodations for athletes (Bucknell has a reputation for working with athletes; the Ivy league baseball schedule of 4 games over the weekend means not much lost school time), but D1 power baseball programs don’t (because they don’t have to to attract the best baseball players).</p>
<p>It’s a difficult choice – better weather for sports; nationally ranked and recognized program; better baseball players to drive your game to the next level; a chance to play in the CWS (never to happen at an IVY); probably more and better choices for summer collegiate leagues (and the visibility that brings to the professional scouts); and ultimately probably a greater opportunity to reach your top baseball potential. </p>
<p>But the facts are that the academic compromise may have to be made.</p>
<p>Not too long ago I talked to a coach who used to be a player for Georgia Tech, another high-academic school with a very strong baseball program, although not within the same level of prestige as Rice and the Ivy League. He told me that almost literally everyone was enrolled in management because it was far and away the most manageable (pun not intended) major at GT. I just checked their roster and I think I tallied 30 out of 35 that were management majors (though what intrigued me were there scattered engineering majors here and there…I guess you’ll get that at a school that is so engineering-focused like GT).</p>
<p>Quick update: S spoke to the Rice coach this evening. He wants him to come down next weekend or the one after (prom weekend - ouch!) to watch the team play. He says S doesn’t need to try out - he will have a spot in the 35 (or 32 I forget) kids he is allowed to carry on his roster based off the recommendation from the scout. He has to check if it can be an official vist if Rice is out of session and will let S know on Monday. Coach had no problem with a parent coming with him.</p>
<p>Coach said he had no athletic money left to give, but S should be able to get academic scholarship. Claims he has had 3 engineering majors in the last few years - although one left after Junior year to play majors.</p>
<p>So much to figure out. Need to find out about the $$, but should we do that after the visit in case S hates it and we don’t go any further? Or should we start the process of getting him accepted and finding out about scholarship/FA at the same time. S will be asking coach when he calls back on Monday.</p>
<p>As an aside we think the Cornell coach was at his game yesterday, but never spoke to S, and S had a not so great game. Didn’t help that it was 50 degrees and raining pretty hard most of the game. S’s team won, but S didn’t have any great hits.</p>
<p>So much to think about… What kind of questions should we be asking the coach now and at the visit?</p>
Zero interest? Hmm, I did some research on LHPs now pitching at Ivies and quite a few sat low 80s their HS junior/senior years…Anyways, the jump from Ivy League to Rice is huge. Congrats on this interest your son is getting.</p>
He really cannot lose, and how awesome to have Cornell all set, no matter what.</p>