<p>My daughter didn't get extended time on the PSAT despite a year-long appeals process. She has a processing problem, and can't read quickly because of a visual disability called convergence insufficiency. They denied her extended time, and I figured that she'd do well on the math and writing and really badly on the reading. Yesterday we got her scores, and she got 68 on math, 68 on writing, and 49 on reading. I'm so angry. She wasn't able to finish the reading test because she reads so slowly. I'm going to try again to appeal this on the basis of this great score difference. She holds her own in English class -- presently running a B+--because I get her texts that have a larger font and she is allowed extra time when she needs it. The colleges she really wants are out of the question with this score if she can't raise it substantially. The really aggravating part is that I have spent well more than $1000 in the past 4 months to help her---for critical reading only. No math or writing prep. Her diagnostic PSAT score in reading was a 48, so she gained one point after all that work and study. AAAHHH!! I am soooo frustrated!</p>
<p>we didn't have a problem getting extended time, I am assuming because she got accomodations at school-
Does she have a 504?
Her accomodations need to be documented by her school, if she recieves them in school and it is documented, I don't understand why she was refused.
We initially paid for an educational pysch eval that documented why D needed accomodations, ironically, CollegeBoard allowed her * more* accomodations than her school does, I assume because CollegeBoard knew how to read the pysch report and her school didn't bother</p>
<p>I would also pursue taking the ACT, I hear that students often do better on one or the other- so it is worth taking both once and then taking another a 2nd time if you feell you can improve</p>
<p>It isn't clear to me from your note if the practitioners who diagnosed the processing problem and visual disability also documented the accommodations needed for them...if they gave only a medical diagnosis and not an educational psych eval, that might be missing. Having been through a successful request for accommodations, I think the most convincing evidence was those specific recommendations (for extra time and in our case for using a computer for written work). emeraldkity4 is also correct that school endorsement and use of the need for accommodations is important; they may actually have to certify that that is done. We were lucky by having a supportive guidance officer. Good luck in your continuing attempts.</p>
<p>She has a 504, and I think you might be right about the school. They haven't been very supportive. The woman in charge of SAT accomodations at the high school actually said, "well, it's a very long report, I didn't read it." I just called the testing psychologist who wrote the report we handed in. She is stunned that my D hasn't gotten extra time. One thing the ETS did say in the letter was that my D's academic performance in the testing was in the expected range for her cognitive ability. Meaning that her performance matched her IQ. (which is perfectly borne out by the PSAT results---all math was high, all verbal was low) The problem with that is that most of the verbal portions of the IQ test involved visual scanning, my D's hardest task. Those subtests brought her overall IQ way down from what her ability really is as measured by the rest of the test, including perceptual reasoning and word pairs and performance, etc, which were all very high. How can they base accomodations upon whether a child's IQ matches their academic performance if the IQ test itself is biased against her disability? Every low score on the test was visual scanning based. Every one. On the verbal tests in which the tester read the material to my D, she scored very high again. Isnt this glaringly obvious? Or is it me? What kind of testing should I have had done to compensate for her visual problem, to show her IQ as it really would be if her eyes worked properly? What kind would they do for a blind child, or is there none?</p>
<p>if she has extended time in her 504- and the psych test supports that with why she needs it- it seems that the college board should also allow that for her testing.</p>
<p>My daughter took the PSAT without accomodations, but before we received the results we applied for accomodations for SAT- oddly this is what counselor recommended- as he thought that if she did poorly on PSAT, this would validate that she needed accomodations.
( we haven't gotten results yet)
I don't remember what tests our pysch used, there were several that validated each other, but she also wrote clear recommendations for accomodations- which I had added to the request for SAT.</p>
<p>For example, while her 504 doesn't state that she should receive breaks, her teachers do give them to her if needed & I asked for them for SAT.
( I also asked for them to be added to her 504, rather than having to negotiate for them for each class, but the school refused)</p>
<p>If your daughter has a scribe or a reader at school, or had tests that indicated she would greatly benefit from them, it doesn't seem right that they would deny her.
Make sure that whatever she needs is added to her 504, because she will need that when she goes to college, regardless of what ends up happening with her tests.</p>
<p>My older daughter didn't have a 504,because she was in a private school, that seemed to attract students with learning differences because of the way the curriculum was presented- she also didn't have any problem getting accomodations on the SAT.
However, as the tests are now unmarked regarding who has accomodations and who doesn't, the CB, seems much more sticky now about who qualifies.
Something I disagree with.
I know that it was being argued as a discrimination issue, but if the college has a problem with you having accomodations on an entrance test, they are likely to have a problem with giving accomodations in the classroom & it is better to know up front IMO, than after you are in the middle of class.</p>
<p>Can I ask those of you who have asked for and gotten extra time what tests scores you submitted? My D had the IQ, the academic tests and extra timed and untimed reading tests, which showed a 50 point difference between timed and untimed. I am at a loss as to why they continue to deny her.</p>
<p>My D has a processing problem, on her long 3 hour test her processing speed score was about 30 points lower than her IQ, so she was showing a dramatic discrepency...she did get extra time and tested in the SAT about where her sisters, without processing issues and extra time, did. She still did not finish the test, even with extra time! Imagine it was a 3 hour test, so 4.5 hours extra time....now with the writing added, what will it be ALL DAY with no food!?</p>
<p>You all are way ahead of me on this topic, and I'm scrambling to catch up. But in case this is any help: our D has processing issues that affect her ability to perform in math, but it was only diagnosed in college. They set her up for accommodations in college without which she wouldn't have passed many requirements. Time-and-a-half on exams and a note scribe (any course she feels she needs it) and use of a calculator on math or science exams.</p>
<p>She went at age l9 to a private psychologist whom we paid for with our insurance, inpart (big copays and report costs, oh well).</p>
<p>Now she's trying to deal with college board to get accommodations when she takes her GRE's. The psychologist gave her a math test and she did okay in regular time, but she pointed out that the level of math on that test was around 8th grade, and didn't touch on her processing issues at all.</p>
<p>The psychologist agreed she was right, but he needed to get some agreement from the Board ahead of time WHICH test to use that they would accept. He wanted a timed test with harder math.
He got onto the phone and tangled with a decision-maker at the CollegeBoard. I got him the name of the decisionmaker by calling in the problem and asking the desk clerk to say, Who's the senior person who could discuss with the psychologist the right test to administer. (Because the desk clerk told me to look at the list of acceptable tests on the website). I said(and this was so) that the psychologist had already previewed those and none of them were timed. So desk clerk gave me the name, which I called in to the psychologist.
Psychologist, after CONSIDERABLE bureaucracy-busting phone time, had the important discussion with decision-maker. They agreed to a test.
Next vacation back, she took the test and sure enough, did miserably. He was then able to recommend to the Board that she get accommodations on the GRE's, and throughout grad school, based on these new results. I appreciated he would only give her a test that the Board agreed to, ahead of time, they'd accept. My D was able to articulate wjhat the problem was even better than the psychologist could, re: what was amiss with the first test.
There will still be an uphill battle, b/c the disability coordinator at her campus says that the GRE folks consider it a nonstandard accommodation to grant calculator use (tho it's standard accom. to get the extra time). She's established the extra time need already at college, but to get the calculator usage she needs to go through a big hearing for nonstandard accoms.
It may or may not be resolved before she applies to grad school, so it could keep her out of some. But not all. She's decided to work as a Literacy Specialist in elementary schools, and not all ed schools require the GRE. Still, she wants to accoms in place for her future, like the Praxis and all the professional credentialling exams she'll need to take.
If any of my tale helps you, I hope so. But the nugget that may make the dif is the PSYCHOLOGIST getting ON THE PHONE with the College Board to agree to the most appropriate test. The one they agreed on was NOT on their list on the website.</p>
<p>I posted on another thread that we may be close to a breakthrough for my D. The ETS is at least considering it. They asked that the school send them previous IQ testing results from past years, and proof that she gets extra time on testing in school (which we already sent). I was surprised at how skimpy my D's records are in school. They didn't keep her IQ testing from 5--6 grade, but kept the one from 4th grade. Apparently the ETS is satisfied with that, as long as it shows a very large difference from the most recent one that was visually based. I'm not sure what the old test was, and why she did so well on the ones from past years, but I suspect that they contain lots less visual scanning, and less dense print. Thus, the point difference in scores. So now we are trying to beat the deadline for the March 10 SAT, to get her the extra time she needs. ETS also wants letters from several of her teachers saying that she gets extra time when needed. To me, that's the only sticking point, as the 2 teachers from whom she most recently got extended time--2 weeks ago on midterms--are not very compliant with much I ask for. They never return calls, and don't grade papers for weeks at a time. They are those very lazy, complacent tenured-type teachers.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There will still be an uphill battle, b/c the disability coordinator at her campus says that the GRE folks consider it a nonstandard accommodation to grant calculator use (tho it's standard accom. to get the extra time).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Later on in the year or so, the GRE is going to have calculator usage be the norm. They are going to have an on screen calculator built into the test which will be your standard non scientific calculator along with a square root function. </p>
<p>So, it is weird to me that the GRE folks will not let your child use a calculator now. Seeing as everyone will be allowed to use a very basic on screen calculator later on in the year when the new form of the standard GRE test is offered. </p>
<p>Your whole situation makes me want to spit nails. </p>
<p>Does your child have dyscalculia? If your child has straight up dyscalculia, then a simple calculator is an accommodation which is no different than a book on tape for someone who is visually impaired. Do you know what I mean? Why did the Student Disabilities folks not try to articulate what your child would need?</p>
<p>I haven't checked in on this site recently, but am so happy to read what you've written on Post #10, Mildred.</p>
<p>I will contact my D tomorrow. We'll both check out this news. It will be very important to her. </p>
<p>Every time I hear back about the LD coordinator, I hear that, at least in my D's perception, there are many more significant LD's that occupy the attention of the office re: medical disabilities. I know that the way we raised our D, she feels (so would readily back down and not push about it) that between her concerns and those of a blind student, or one working out campus issues b/c she needs to get around on a wheelchair, that hers are just less priority.
I think the LD coordinator knew it would be an uphill battle b/c calculator is named a non-standard accommodation fpr GRE. while time-and-a-half is standard.
Since my D gets both on campus already, the LD could readily, with a pen-swipe on a standard form, get the time-and-a-half for her, but predicted that the calculator would engender a big drawn-out process taking months to decide.
The LD coordinator said that any non-standard accommodation just kick-starts a slow process with people sitting around a table, big discussions, meetings and so on.<br>
But if we know she can have a calculator on the GRE, at least she can take care of that this year. And even if there's a big process, hoepfully could be resolved in time for grad school and future tests, such as Praxis exams for her profession.
I've never heard the term dyscalculia except on this site. Informally, if that means the equivalent of "illiteracy" I'd say yes, but since her psychologist never said that word to me I don't know if she's been diagnosed. Or if it's actually a formal diagnosis, even.<br>
So on the answer to your last question, I hesitate to point fingers but I think it might actually be two issues: the processes on campus are easier for the disabilities coordinator to resolve and everyone enjoys succeeding in helping kids per every hour invested on the phone. Secondly, there might be a bias between the medical vs. learning disabilities, both of which she must handle solo on this LAC. I may just be so new to all this that I haven't learned how to push it. Finally, as a college senior late diagnosed, and exceptionally polilte, my D is just now finding her voice to advocate for herself better.<br>
Thanks for caring.</p>
<p>I have bad news and I am very sorry. </p>
<p>It was just really, really recently announced that the GRE is not going to be doing and of those nice changes after all. The news faq on the cancellation of these changes was just made to press today: 2 apr 07! I am soo sad and stuff that I cursed while reading it and I never make it a practice to curse, because of how I am a girl and stuff.</p>
<p>Here is the hyperlink...</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gre.org%5B/url%5D">http://www.gre.org</a></p>
<p>I just recently learned of this and am a mite upset at it. The reasoning behind the newer (and more L.D. friendly, I M H O) changes being up and canceled all out of the blue like, is that the GRE folks feel as though not enough students will bother or something?! </p>
<p>So, I am sorry for being a Debbie Downer. But, I think that this is information which is of importance to everyone who goes on this area of the web site. I am basically just cross posting. Because this information is already on the Graduate Student area of this web site. </p>
<p>This all being said...</p>
<p>paying3tuitions: Do not give up on your daughter having a fair amount of accommodations on the GRE. Gosh darnit, when there is a will, there is a way. What I am assuming is that maybe your child could have massive extended time on the GRE and then double check every mathematical answer. That is called: substituting the answer for the variable in the original equation. You can do that on the paper based test, as near as I can reckon, and it would take double time. Also, have your child look up matrices. You can use matrices for equations with more than one variable and they are the biggest short cut going on two, three, and four variable equations. A book which explains that nicely is called: Schaum's Outline of College Algebra.</p>
<p>I am sorry that the GRE decided to cancel out their new and improved format and mode of testing. I could almost spit nails, really.</p>
<p>I hadn't heard this and appreciate first hearing the news about it right here.
And the info on matrices and reference book Schaum's sounds quite helpful.
She's also finding there are some teachers colleges that do not ask for the GRE's; it all depends on the school. Plus she's decided to take a year between college and grad school to do some creative projects and save up some money, so that will buy her time to find out her best options before grad school.</p>
<p>Many thanks for helping. I really appreciate the follow-up and I know she'll<br>
find her path through her own resources plus I never, ever give up on my kids. I don't believe in it. My mom is 78 and she still helps me with things...:) So we WILL beat out this GRE retro-dark-ages-netherworld. Grr. Tacks, me too.</p>
<p>My daughter has been granted the extended time for the SAT. Now she will take them in May, and probably in June. She would have taken them in MArch, but didn't want the scores to show from sittings without extended time.</p>
<p>I am so happy for your daughter. I now realize we were very lucky to get my son his accommodations so easily. I left it up to his counselor and I have no clue what she sent. He had double time and a taped version of the test.
With Double time the student does not take the test at the regular scheduled test site. It is all done through the high school. We had trouble each time with the school finding proctors and also with the office being accountable for tracking where the test ended up upon delivery at the school.
With double time the test is also adminstered over 2 days so it isn't so long.</p>
<p><em>/I like to go to skie resortes/</em></p>