<p>Anyone remember the comic with the "curve busting Asian robots" in the Daily Sun a couple of semesters ago? Admittedly, when I first read the comic, I thought nothing of it until the whole big hoopla got started.</p>
<p>Is Cornell liberal in the classical sense? No.</p>
<p>Cornell is extreme in the worst way - many of its courses are (to me) politicized trash, or so specific to as to be meaningless, or both. See <a href="http://www.artsreports.cornell.edu/viewballot/SP2006_Brochure.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.artsreports.cornell.edu/viewballot/SP2006_Brochure.pdf</a> </p>
<p>Plant Pathology 110?!? Any general survey courses in history? Nope. Instead, 2 on the civil war, others on historical fiction, muslims in France 1700-now, and African icons of the 20th century. And countless racial and "gender" studies courses, operating on Marxist philosophies.</p>
<p>"Power and Politics: Sex for sale? Thinking through sex work in America and beyond"? "Cultural Studies: Star Trek"?
Yes, Classics recieve just as much attention as Star Trek. And this from a supposed university, and an "Ivy" at that. From a cursory reading of that list, it seems like the only discipline not mired in exclusively liberal doctrines is philosophy. </p>
<p>The seminars are colored by a focus on the contemporary, the transitory, and especially the superficial. Liberal intellectuals love to criticize consumerism (not that I espouse consumerism), and gosh, they have plenty of fodder to lambast, right in their own "backyard." It doesn't get much more consumerist than discussing Star Trek instead of Milton or Homer.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that conservative views should be equally represented, but that classes should avoid or even transcend the political chatter.
Shakespeare, and most other great works, as I have seen them, warrant no political slant or interpretation. The attack on works of western civilization is fundamentally irrational and anti-intellectual.</p>
<p>Another symptom of the extremism are the speech codes. "If you experience or observe any activity which might be perceived as a biased activity, you are expected to report the incident...." Sounds like secret police encouraging the comrades to report on harmless neighbors. Source: <a href="http://www.thefire.org/pdfs/79aa160a893e37eb98eeeebb7f8ab01a.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.thefire.org/pdfs/79aa160a893e37eb98eeeebb7f8ab01a.pdf</a></p>
<p>What I don't understand is how conservatives complain how there isn't an equal representation of political viewpoints in the classroom and how conservatives have to agree with liberal professors in order to receive a good grade. I'm not a poli sci major, but all the classes I've taken are objectively based on one's performance on prelims that are usually graded by TAs, so even if you and a professor do not agree on political issues, there would not be any repercussions on one's grade.</p>
<p>Fudge: Ok first of all, in smaller classes and in sections, frequently there are little subject components of the grade such as "participation" etc. Also, if you've ever had to ask for a regrade etc, it's all professors discretion. </p>
<p>Example: I had some problems with a CS211 professor. We butted heads several times. I Had a C on the first prelim, and A on the second prelim and on the final. And almost a 100 average on the computing assignments. Based on the grade system he posted in the sylabus, I had a numerical A. However he gave me a B+. When I emailed him and complained, his response was "I can't justify giving a student an A for a course where he recieved a C on a prelim". When I tried to complain to the department head, I realized he was in fact the head of the department. Yup, case closed.</p>
<p><em>Edit</em> Note this had nothing to do with political viewpoints, but it's an example of how a professor can ruin you. This isn't highschool, you can't have your parents complain to guidance departments. This is why conservative students stay quiet and don't argue with their professors. My main issue is the professor should be keeping his viewpoints to himself in the first place. Perhaps there is a place for it in a goverment, or history, or poly sci class. But when a Physics prof is lecturing on evils of the republican party, I feel like my $40k a year tuition is being misused.</p>
<p>Ok people, no need to argue and turn this into republicans vs. democrats or conservative vs. liberal debate
let the poor thread die in peace...
Also, thanks for helping me. I now believe that Cornell is a liberal place. (Apparently this has worsened my problems
.I will have to choose between JHU and Cornell
hey!! I am speaking as if I am already in
. :D )</p>
<p>ashernm's post is almost making me question whether I even really want to attend Cornell or not. Is the general education really that bad at Cornell? Is it all that flaky/insanely specialized? No surveys of history? What the...?</p>
<p>[researching............]</p>
<p>Hmmm... How about HIST</a> 153 and HIST</a> 154? Or HIST</a> 151 and HIST</a> 152? It also looks like they have some interesting Greek history courses. It seems like you are exagerating just a little, ashernm.</p>
<p>UChicago is my ideal, but they have no engineering program. :( </p>
<p>You seem like a reasonable guy, mrnova... What do you think of Cornell's liberal arts offerings?</p>
<p>Well, as an engineer, my view points are a bit biased. The liberal arts classes I have taken thus far: 2 freshman writing seminars. 1 on short stories, 1 on essentially AIDS and homosexuals. I don't say that in a homophobic way, that's what the class was about. It was taught my a grad student in the women gender and sexuality departmant. Econ 101 (micro) and Soc 421 (Theories of Reproduction). So I have 1 more liberal arts requirement to take (I guess I'll take History of Rock) and the rest are taken care of with AP credits. All the liberal arts I've been exposed to thus far were interesting but are jokes. Econ 101 and Soc 421 were laughably easy. I stopped going to both classes and never attended sections once. This is especially pathetic because I saw many people arround me struggling. Maybe as an Engineer this stuff is just easy for me...reminds me of highschool. Sure I could take harder classes. I really enjoy history, government, econ. But I don't have the time nor the free GPA points to waste on those. Point is, there are deffinitly weird and interesting and unique liberal arts classes you can take. My friend took a class called Magic Mushrooms for example. But unless you think you're gonna do a double major, and plan on being in engineering (I'm assuming based on your comment about UChicacgo) then don't expect to get a comprehensive survey of the arts. But you can always watch the Discovery and History channel and get about the same ammount of knowledge anyway.</p>
<p>JohnM, I am sorry to mislead, but I was looking only at the writing seminars. I am sorry I did not mention that - that was wrong. </p>
<p>Ironically, I was in pretty similar straits. I too was actually caught between Chicago (for econ, but I'm also interested in philosophy and political economy, and liberal arts generally) and Cornell, while somewhat interested in engineering. Except I applied ED to Cornell and EA to Chicago, and got in at the former and deferred at the latter, this year. At one point, I was actually wishing that Cornell would reject me and Chicago accept me.</p>
<p>But if I was interested in exclusively the liberal arts, sadly, Cornell would not be my first choice. But I still think the writing seminars as a class demonstrate my point. Engineering in general seems tough to mix with liberal arts, what with your lack of electives. Of the top engineering schools, I would guess that Berkeley, Stanford, Harvey Mudd (through Pomona) and Princeton, and possibly Michigan, have the strongest liberal arts. And there's Reed and St. Johns College in addition to Chicago, if you decide to forgo engineering (my Chicago interviewer courteously mentioned these colleges as possible fits for me). I ask you not to trust me, but to read the Cornell course guide itself, which I found disappointing, but I realized I might not have enough electives to take all the courses I deemed good anyway, so it's a moot point. <a href="http://cuinfo.cornell.edu/Academic/Courses/%5B/url%5D">http://cuinfo.cornell.edu/Academic/Courses/</a> It's a lot easier to read in real life, in book format. I am not familiar with the online edition, as it may be different (and my diagnosis therefore possibly wrong).</p>
<p>I would say that if I could pick any school, I would probably go to Harvey Mudd College, but I cannot due to certain (non financial) circumstances. And HMC is about as selective as Cornell's engineering, based on the statistics I've seen (although HMC engineering may be more selective than the college generally, if they admit by major).</p>
<p>A quote from an article about an Modern Language Association (MLA) meeting, from a libertarian writer, on a libertarian news site, Tech Central Station: "When one digs into press accounts about the most tendentious classes in today's universities and colleges, they are often freshman comp classes. Over the past two decades or so, many of the designers of composition curricula have consciously seen those classes as the ideal place for political indoctrination to a sort of standard left-wing agenda. As one professor friend of mine told me, she's been in department meetings where comp doyennes have declared, "This is our best shot at getting into the minds of students." " <a href="http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=123005A%5B/url%5D">http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=123005A</a> </p>
<p>So the seminars may be more "politicized" than the school in total. But the point stands.</p>
<p>Cornell has a lot of courses in the liberal arts, but unless you are in CAS, you probably won't take many of them. While you're at Cornell, you are allowed to take courses at any college, including the graduate schools. But the likelihood of this happening is unlikely. For CAS, you need to take 100 credits in the arts college as a requirement to graduate. There are general requirements for every college as well as requirements to fulfill a degree program in the academic department in which one chooses to major.</p>
<p>One aspect that is good about Cornell is that there are so many colleges that it makes it easier to transfer internally and switch majors. Ive known a lot of people who, after the first semester here, decided that they didnt like what they were studying.</p>
<p>I think for engineering, you are allowed one non engineering or engineering elective every semester, except freshman year, where you must take freshman seminars instead, unless you have certain AP credit, with which you can drop required classes and take whatever you like.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I was actually wishing that Cornell would reject me and Chicago accept me.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's really funny because I'm feeling the same thing! I actually am applying to Chicago as a "destiny" play. I want to get into engineering because it's more practical, but I'm a pure math major at heart. I sort of hope I get rejected from my top engineering picks, Cornell and Northwestern, and get accepted to Chicago. Then I would know math is where I should be. :D</p>
<p>I've looked at St. John's, but they just seem like they are a little too over the top/out their in fantasy land for me. I remember watching their propoganda video and one student says something like "I'm about to graduate from St. Johns and even though I don't really know what I'm going to do next I know I'm prepared." Ummmmm. Ok. :)</p>
<p>Sometimes I wish someone would force me to choose between engineering and math... It's driving me nuts. But I'm leaning towards engineering.</p>
<p>ashernm, thats not true at all. You can take whatever you want whenever you want. As long as you meet the affiliation requirements for your major by sophmore year. I've only taken 1 liberal arts a semester because I don't want to "use them all up". I spread them out because they are the easy classes that break apart the hard ones.</p>
<p>I guess mrnova I was looking at the generic engineering set up on their website.</p>
<p>JohnM, except it was even more extreme because I applied Early Decision. </p>
<p>I have a great recommendation for you: You can major in mathematics while specializing in economics at Chicago. The guidebook (I was mailed one for some reason) recommended this path for those considering becoming economists. Chicago is one of, if not the, top school for economics (it contends with Harvard, Princeton, MIT, and maybe Berkeley I guess), and its mathematics program is probably great too, judging by the general quality of the school. You would probably have career prospects similar to the econ majors at Chicago, which are great. So if your concern is over career prospects, Chicago's program can solve this. </p>
<p>If you actually want to do engineering, then you still have to decide.</p>
<p>every college has stuff like that. Except Brigham Young where they actually give you curfews.</p>
<p>cornell is filled with kids from long island.</p>
<p>the vast majority of which are economically conservative and socially liberal.</p>
<p>zuckie...yours was the best answer ...thanks...</p>