Speaking of how well crafted this complicated novel is from an interview —-
https://bookpage.com/interviews/23411-diane-setterfield-fiction#.XPafORopChA
Honestly, I imagine Carrie from Homeland, in the first season ( I stopped watching homeland after two seasons ) during a manic episode she has a wall covered with threads to pictures in a bizarre labarryth. I suspect Setterfield’s wall would look like that.?
If one thinks of the girl as Quietly’s daughter, then the story provides an interesting perspective on Death. Quietly himself is not viewed as something to be feared. He just IS. He performs his duties competently. The girl takes it one step further…Every character is powerfully drawn to her, for reasons they can’t quite understand. They want to hold her and keep her near. She is inextricably linked to death, but her presence brings a sense of comfort and peace. (It reminds me a bit of the appeal of Brad Pitt’s portrayal of Death in “Meet Joe Black.”)
The quote at the beginning of the book
^@mary13 your comments about death /comfort reminded me of this scene
Page 311 Joe is dying and Rita visits
[quote]
Rita did not look away. part of her job was to help people look at what was coming.Dying could be lonely.A nurse was often an Easier person to talk to than family. She held his gaze with hers.
“** I’d have liked —-** an inadequate breath —-**“ a better summer” **
**“I know” **
**I shall miss—— Margot…the family, this world has ———marvelous things,——- I shall miss **
**The river ? **
He shook his head “ ** there will always be,the river “ **
He closed his eyes…he uttered words mostly indecipherable, but
She heard him say ** “ river” “Quietly”, “story” **
…
**“ there are stories you have never heard on the other side of the river
…I can only half remember them when I am this side,such stories “ **
This scene is followed by Rita leaving The Swan Inn, as men are debating the crazy new theory proposed by Darwin.
“And, I have heard another thing like that !” Cried another. “ That men once had tails and fins and lived beneath the water!”
“What ? Under the river? I never heard such a thing? “
Lily was afraid of the water, or at least what might be in it. This chapter shows us a story isn’t always as predicted. It can bend and turn and be unpredictable, like the river and like an often told story.
I thought the pink limb was going to be Maud. We weren’t told Armstrong had already taken her. I was ready to be mad!
I am out of the country without my copy of the book. I have enjoyed this discussion very much. I thought the book was slow to start out, but I really enjoyed it after about a third of the way in.
@Mary13 I never thought about Death being woven into the story like it was.
A lot happened in the story, but for me it was a quiet book — like a gently flowing river. But a river can have quickly flowing under currents , just like the book. I will certainly reread it.
One of my favorite chapters - a short one titled “Tributaries” (if I remember correctly) - discussed tributaries to the river Thames. In the following chapters, Setterfield introduces Armstrong, Lily, and the Vaughns, as tributaries to the flow of the story of the “dead” girl. I loved the thought and, of course, Setterfield’s writing.
The Magic Lantern show still has niche appeal ?: https://amishexperience.com/magic-lantern-shows/
I am on vacation out of the country with spotty access to WiFi and no copy of the book to aid my recollection of the details. I did try to reread just before I left but ran out of time.
Let me try to encapsulate my impressions: I thought it was a beautifully written book, captivating and at times haunting, mystical and moving, and difficult to put down once you were drawn into Setterfield’s world.
It was a slow burner, it took a bit of time to get into the story but once in, you didn’t want to stop till you reached the end. The lyrical prose and wonderful descriptions, while satisfying were also frustrating at times. Setterfield is a master storyteller and this was a book of many stories that made up one story. No story is a complete by itself but taken together it was a success.
I loved her writing style. She manages to convey a sense of place and time, realistic and interesting characters with fewer words than many others. As many others have pointed out earlier, her women are strong, independent thinking characters and even when preyed upon and suppressed like Lily, are able to work out their own (eventual) salvation. Rita, Margot, Helen are some of my favorites. I liked Mr. Vaughn as well. I will confess though, that I found Armstrong a bit of a too-good-to-be-true type.
What didn’t I like? Well, not much, obviously! I’m a fan of her books. I will say this much, as a story it wasn’t as riveting as The Thirteenth Tale. This is isn’t a book for rereading for the story without the suspense but definitely worth another look for the sensual imagery and descriptions.
A little nitpicking: I wasn’t able to understand/accept Robin’s grievances against his parents. I understand that with Victor’s genes he has a heritage of evil but again, as with others who pointed this out, it is difficult to accept that nurture wouldn’t triumph. Especially growing up with a step-father like Armstrong.
I will say that although Victor, the scrawny man with the strength of the devil, is a deeply satisfying villain, I was bothered by how he managed to survive his many trials. He just wouldn’t go away!
Lastly, I loved the legend of Quietly. As the ‘Charon’ of the Thames or a figment of imagination of those who encountered him, he makes the story.
As for Amelia, the girl who came from the river, her origins are a mystery. Much as I would like to accept that she is Quietly’s daughter, I don’t see why in that case she would come to the land of the living. Far more likely that she is the daughter of a river gypsy who just came into the lives of the people who needed an intervention and eventually went back to her people who were looking for her along the river and its tributaries.
Overall, this was a great choice to read. I would love to discuss the finer points some more but without the book for ready reference nor steady access to the internet it is difficult. However, I’m enjoying reading the discussion when I can.
@SouthJerseyChessMom I loved the excerpt from the book you quoted too.
I did find the book engrossing and really wanted someone to talk to just after I read it many weeks ago. Sadly, I have no book to refer to at the moment as it was returned to the library. The author definitely has a nice way to painting word pictures and drawing you into the world her characters inhabit.
I’m going to owe lots of overdue fines because I can’t renew the book again. Sat down and skimmed the first third of the book or so. I’d forgotten how those chapters were structured so much like a poem. Particularly the four that all end, “Something was going to happen”. I found it a little too much with the first reading, but it’s very compelling.
I did love the Mrs. Constantine chapter. Did you notice how Vaughan says, “I can tell you no more than is known.” and not “no more than I know.” ? I also liked the way Mrs. C told him he might wish to talk more eventually.
Oddly, I want to know more about Margot. She manages The Swan and no man thinks twice about her ability to do so. She seems to have aptly handled her large family of twelve girls and Jonathan at the same time. In addition, she treats the patrons of The Swan, for all intents and purposes, as extended family. No wonder family and patrons seems to love and respect her. I liked what I knew of her and would have liked more.
Lucky two CCers traveling abroad, @AnAsmom ( great summary and overview ) and @silverlady ! Safe and happy travels.
Agree with @ignatius, Margot is the ultimate “modern woman”, juggling her large family, and running The Swan with all the colorful characters, and I would have liked more about this wonderful, strong woman.
@mathmom your comments about the Mrs Constantine Chapter when Mr Vaughan confesses all to her, and she suggests he tell Mrs Vaughan the awful, tragic truth reminded of the last paragraph of that chapter.
It’s a moment of redemption I thought for this man, and can understand @mary13 having some criticism of his character.
Page 343. Chapter “Retelling the Story”
Again, water is theme
@AnAsmom good point about Mr Armstrong being almost “too- good -to -be -true” character, maybe that combined with his ability to “talk with the animals, walk with the animals” made him the folktale / tall tale character @Mary13 pointed out, part of the magical/ mystical element of the story.
@mathmom I’m looking more closely at the chapter titles.
@Caraid I had forgotten Lily was afraid of the water.
And in this chapter Setterfield navigates the world of sexual abuse, but first with some Psychological abuse by Victor, toying with poor Lily, as you pointed out @Caraid terrifying her even more about the “ river/ water” !
In chapter entitled- “Great Lakes underground”
Right before she is sexually molested by creepy Brother Victor, Setterfield write this…
Ugh, there is a lot going on here, perhaps addressing incest, as one of those hidden things beneath the surface of normal life. It was upsetting to read, and Setterfield was like Hitchcock ( psychological suspense) in setting the stage for what we knew as reader…oh no…oh no
@AnAsmom, what a fine analysis! I agree, Victor is like the horror movie bad guy who just won’t disappear. In fact, I was afraid for a bit at the end that he would do the impossible and survive after falling into the river with Robin.
@mathmom, I wasn’t crazy about the repeated “something is going to happen” line because I thought that the anticipation/tension was readily apparent through Setterfield’s writing and we didn’t need the redundancy. Better to simply sense it (as the characters do) than be told outright.
Here’s something I found interesting. This is the final paragraph in a (mostly positive) review of *Once Upon a River[/I ] in The Guardian:
The sentence the reviewer refers to, “weighed down by the intolerable weight of his grief,” is not written as such in my book. It’s on p. 431 as follows: “They went their way in silence for the most part, Armstrong weighed down by the intolerable burden of his grief.”
That’s a perfectly acceptable sentence. I wonder if the reviewer received an advance copy that hadn’t undergone a final proof. My brother-in-law is a book reviewer and receives a lot of advance copies with grammatical errors, typos, etc. that will be corrected before publication.
Interesting. I remember the sentence, weighed down by the intolerable weight of his grief." I noticed it at the time.
^ Interesting, indeed! I can’t remember – did you read the book on the Kindle or a hardcover? (I read the latter.)
Hardcover. (I’m finding that Kindle reading doesn’t stick with me as much.)
I have “They went their way in silence for the most part, Armstrong weighed down by the intolerable burden of his grief.” (Hardcover, p.431) Obviously better wording than quoted by the reviewer. It would be interesting to know the audio wording.
I read the book a second time for this discussion. I noticed - clearly now that I know that Vaughn knew Amelia drowned - how carefully Setterfield crafts Vaughn and his words and feelings about Amelia (both his Amelia and the rescued “Amelia”). It was so clear on second reading that I’m surprised that I didn’t catch it the first time I read the book. Masterful writing - honesty with just enough withholding of what Vaughn knows to be true.
I didn’t like those “Something is going to happen” so much the first time, but on the rereading they seem more like all repeated phrases that come before some final crescendo and every single piece of the orchestra playing the last note in a Beethoven symphony.
^^^ Yeah, I liked the repeated phrase better the second time.