I don’t think there is any support for your assumption there aren’t enough high stat in-state applicants. And I think your thesis that reducing aid for OOS students will negatively impact the UC system is also wrong, because it’s based on faulty assumptions. But time will tell. Also, while there are certain state systems that offer big aid to high stats OOS kids (like Arizona and Alabama), other states reserve it for the in state kids (like HOPE in Georgia or Bright Futures in Florida). I don’t think the UC system is a huge outlier in this regard. In the meantime, as a CA taxpayer, I am glad they are focusing on in-state students.
Big whoop…
I repeat again: the PRIMARY mission of the UC school system is to serve the people of California. It’s not to chase USNWR rankings.
OP,Is it safe to assume that your child is OOS for UCs?
IIRC, GMT is across the pond.
@carolinamom2boys Funnily enough, no. She is OOS for 2 quarters but instate thereafter - her mom was transferred to CA very recently and the clock has already been ticking for her in state classification sometime in Feb 2017. Which is why she applied to the UCs instead of her current instate - it was known beforehand that her mom would be moving to CA.
But the point remains - I don’t quite believe in international borders. The concept of state colleges is even weirder to me. If there are to be state universities they should all be federal. And you should be able to attend any public college anywhere so long as you are a citizen.
State universities receive their funding from taxes paid by citizens of the state. You are not restricted from attending state universities , you just have to pay for it @khanam.
The UCs currently receive only 12% of their budget from the state of CA, the rest is from federal grants, private sources, and even OOS, international supplementals. To call it state funded no longer makes sense.
Yes, that is where the students with lower stats are admitted through holistic review which takes into account things such as underprivileged background. The second chance for lower stat students is through community college transfer.
Nothing bars ANYONE from applying to ANY public university. Isn’t your UC-attending OOS daughter a good example?
Its easy to say you can do whatever you want. That is only true when the price for all your alternatives is the same. Until that is a constraint or a variable in your calculations, you really do not have free choice. The fact that she will still be OOS for 2 quarters or 2 semesters depending on whether she chooses to enroll at a UC and which campus and the payments will be glaringly different is what highlighted the difference to me. Why is education priced differently depending on domain in the US? That is not the case in the EU. You have 1 rate for all EU residents at colleges. And the EU is a collection of countries. We can’t even have 1 fee for students in the US?
Secondly, is it not logical to tie the minimum percentage of instate kids to percentage funded by the state? The state of CA does not fund 80% of the budget of a UCB. Actually it does not even fund a sixth of that. Why is it requiring an 80% instate enrollment. The UC system should be free to decide who it enrolls. It will still enroll primarily instate students because of geographic convenience but it will be able to chase whatever student population benefits the UCs.
Every state U prioritized admission of in state students. If the UCs didn’t, how would that be fair to California residents? Further, the point of state schools is to serve state students. No, state funding doesn’t completely pay for the Us, but their purpose is the same. If it was t, they would be private. If you have such a problem with state schools, why send you daughter to one?
Why does it require a certain percentage of instate enrollment? Because it is governed by California statutes and the California state constitution.
Not true. My German cousins were charged nonresident tuition rates to a UK school; therefore, they declined the offer.
And the US should hardly be taking cues from the EU on how to fund things.
@Katecat27 There should be no prioritization of instate students at any instate U. Creates artificial boundaries to education. All funding for non private education should be federal, not state and all legal residents should be able to apply to whichever public U they wish to and if admitted, should pay the same.
Isn’t CA the same state that enrolls kids of illegal immigrants for free in its school system? Then why is it charging a supplemental to actual citizens of the US who wish to enroll in the UCs? Once CA starts taxing and charging illegals for attending schools and using resources that are paid for by US citizens and legal residents, not just those in CA, then it will be consistent. Until then, it does not seem fair.
I intend to send my daughter to the school that offers her the best education for the money. It might be a UC. But the philosophical point I am raising remains valid. We are 1 country. We don’t have checkpoints at borders of states - well only CA does to check if you are carrying fruit into the state - someone has to explain that to me as well. Anyways, we can’t have a disjointed higher educational system which is localized and constrained by local goals. This is the 21st century. We need a more integrated college system.
@LionsMum Every state has the ability to enact regulations to benefit itself but that does not make it right or fair. The UCs receive 16% of their budget from direct federal funding vs 12% from the state of CA. So is it truly being supported by the state? Please also pick up a copy of the budget report of the Regents of the University of California. When you see how the UC system is suffering BECAUSE of the state of CA’s legislature and its ineptness, you will understand why I believe they should be independent self sufficient universities. I read the regents report from 2013 and you can see the mess the UCs have been put through by the state. The budget gap is increasing because the state has funding is at 1997 levels while forcing the UCs to take more subsidized instate students. Very truthfully, base instate tuition is too low given that the state support is too little, the supplementals from OOS cant make up for that. Thats a drop in the bucket.
@GMTplus7 I don’t think the UK considers itself a part of the EU in most ways. Within the EU, college cost is the same. Well, the EU has its PIGS, we have our own debt crisis brewing - as of last count we are 19.1 trillion in debt and counting (up from 5 trillion 15 years ago and obviously our GDP hasn’t quadrupled). Among states, CA’s highest marginal state income tax is 13.3% - making it look most like Europe. So I think we are becoming more like them wrt finances on our own.
Based on one of the recent threads about German colleges, it sounds like there are colleges in Germany that are cheaper than instate costs in many US colleges for AMERICAN students.
@texaspg Yes i read that too. They are subsidized. But I cant imagine studying anything except engineering in Germany. Just that stereotype in my mind, hahaha
@khanam
If you are considering sending her to a UC despite the price, it doesn’t seem to deter potential OOS students like you say.
Regardless of how you may feel about the state university system, the fact remains that their primary purpose at this moment is to serve in state students. Students should not have to leave their own state to receive a good education. Allowing free enrollment of OOS students with financial aid would negate the purpose of state schools and push CA residents out. What, then, would the difference be between state and private schools?
Many other states have far more affordable state Us that offer more merit aid. Is that fair? No. Many CA residents are unable to afford a UC. Why should we give valuable dollars of financial aid to OOS students when those instate can’t even afford to attend school? It seems as though everyone wants to come to California. Greater demand with an unchanging supply means a higher price. No one is barring OOS residents, but there is no reason UCs need to accept them.
@Katecat27 She is OOS only for 11 months. Thats why the numbers work well for me. That is unless her mom gets posted out of CA before my daughter graduates and that will lead to chaos.
I am stating that the OOS supplement is big enough. Not too many OOS kids will qualify for FA anyways. And by law FA cant cover the supplement anyways so you cant have the 100% need met situations with OOS anyways. If the supplemental is not allowed to be covered by FA, you will get some full pay and some marginal FA kids - if some of them get 5 to 7,000 dollars to reduce their overall fee, will it kill the UCs? No, they will still benefit. No one thinks any full ride OOS kids are even possible because of the non-financeable supplemental.
I dont think there is an issue with FA for instate kids - I have not read about any instate student not being able to attend a UC because of aid. Typically, there are family issues which hold them back not a lack of funding from the UCs. Also the OOS kids pay into the supplemental pool - using some of that for some FA wont hurt anyone but will continue to attract bright OOS kids to the UCs.
Even if we were to accept that instate schools are meant to be for instate students, it is important to recognize the value of cross pollination of students and ideas. To keep large research universities isolated and bound as slaves to a local population is not good for the universities.
Not interested in subsidizing the COA of an OOS student whose family has not paid a penny of taxes in our state. If the school feels at a student is so highly desired that they are willing to engage in tuition discounting to lure them, that may be understandable in some circumstances. But if an OOS student wants the benefit of instate tuition, then be a resident and pay your fair share of taxes.
Vent over.
@khanam
Like the above poster, I’m not interested in subsidizing OOS tuition. If the UCs don’t need to, why give aid OOS? Plenty of OOS and international students will still attend.
In state FA is a big problem. Personally, my top choice was UCSD. They want me to take out $17k in loans per year. I’m in state, but that is not affordable. My family has lived in state and paid taxes for their entire lives. Why should their tax money go to fund your daughter’s education? There isn’t enough grant money to go around in state, much less for OOS.