<p>Hi: I am very confused about whether I want to double major in clarinet and engineering/physics. I am a senior and have been the ultimate band geek loving my time in the marching band, pitt band, and concert band. I have played in our state band for two years running and have really enjoyed playing with a conductor and other musicians at a high skill level. I know that my primary focus will be on science and I am trying to find schools where I can participate in the orchestra or other ensembles while not necessarily majoring in music. Maybe I could minor?</p>
<p>I visited University of Rochester and loved the school. Now, I am hearing that unless you are at Eastman, you cannot participate in orchestras and other ensembles and that I will possibly be disappointed in the quality of the ensembles outside of eastman.</p>
<p>I really would love some recommendations on some schools that do allow many students to sit on orchestras who maybe are not majoring (or are minoring) in music. Oberlin told me that there are audition seats available to non-majors but there are also ensembles that I could participate in that includes "community members." I really would like to play with other students...not anybody who lives near Oberlin.</p>
<p>Feeling a bit overwhelmed.... I live in western mass and have a 5-year-old sister who I would like to see more than once a year so if it was in new england or ohio area that would be a plus! I am looking at Rice but, again, I don't know about the music part...and it is far.</p>
<p>Hello, 30howland! There should be lots of schools that fit your needs, and there are MANY people in your situation. MIT, Princeton and Yale come immediately to mind but have you also looked at Boston U, NYU, Brandeis or the “sister” colleges in Massachusettes (sorry I am from Calif and I don’t know them as well but I hear them mentioned a lot on this forum). (Don’t know what size of campus you are interested in). I would think that almost any university or college that admits highly qualified academic applicants would have the opportunities you seek.
PS I know you are not trying to “dis” community players but just keep in mind that a lot of them are Juilliard grads. Or parents on this forum.</p>
<p>DD was a state ranked oboe player in high school. She wanted to major in engineering and biology, and wanted also to play in an orchestra WITHOUT being a music major. I can tell you…this was the hardest criteria she had in her college search (she doesn’t have the stats for the top schools listed in the poste above). </p>
<p>What she did was she contacted the music department chairperson, the orchestra director AND the oboe teacher at each school she was interested in. They were very helpful and gave her good direction in terms of what their schools had to offer.</p>
<p>DD graduated from Santa Clara University with bioengineering/biology degrees. She played in the orchestra there for all four years, plus a few operas, musicals and a couple of community events too. She was also able to take private lessons there at no cost as long as she played in the orchestra. Each term she received a small music scholarship which paid for her books.</p>
<p>There were many schools that dropped off of her list because they would not guarantee that she could take lessons AND play in the orchestra (she did not want to play in a wind ensemble). So…you need to ask at each place what their policies are.</p>
<p>We know a talented clarinet player who went to RPI and played in their ensemble for four years. She was also an engineering major.</p>
<p>Re: Boston University…look up “Boston University Music Organizations”…that list the ensembles for the non-majors. Only students MAJORING in music can be in the ensembles in the school of music.</p>
<p>Hi Ben,
A couple years ago during a search for our non-music major musician daughter, we talked to the folks at Case and it was my strong impression that it is possible for a non-music major to participate in music activities, both through Case, which has its own performance program, and through the pre-College program at CIM. Not the CIM orchestras, however. My daughter, who goes to the art school next to Case and CIM was going to be able to take lessons with CIM or Case faculty (she ended up not being able to because of her school’s schedule, but the problem was not on the Case end.) I mention this because Case has a strong engineering program and is in Ohio. </p>
<p>Another university I’m familiar with is UPENN. They have a low-key performance program through the music department. The orchestra includes many players who took the academic route, but were of a pre-conservatory caliber in high school. Philadelphia is a great music city (so is Cleveland), so you might want to put that on your list as well. I know that you can get academic credit for private lessons as well as for orchestra and chamber groups, and that Penn will subsidize lessons with teachers from outside the university. Students of mine (I teacher there; not in music) have studied with teachers from Temple and Curtis through this program. Good luck to you!</p>
<p>I think you should contact the folks at Rochester if you liked the school. Because of Eastman, there are quite a few music type people attracted to the school. You are correct that you cannot participate in the Eastman ensembles, but I have the sense that the UR ensembles are pretty good. They may have recordings available on line that you can listen to. Also, go visit when school is in session and sit in on a rehearsal if you can. You can take lessons at Eastman from a grad student. </p>
<p>St. Olaf has an excellent music program for non-majors, but I don’t think they have engineering although they are quite good in science. The same is true for Lawrence. You also might want to look at some of the large midwest schools. They will all have a variety of musical opportunities as well engineering.</p>
<p>I appreciate your help and suggestions on schools. I am going to investigate case western and perhaps re-visit eastman and sit in on a rehearsal (great idea).</p>
<p>I am starting an introduction to engineering class in the fall at Smith College. That way, before applications are in, I can see if I really want to continue with it. If not, I will take a closer look at Lawrence and St. Olaf.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, when I was doing research for my bank geek, I made up a “band” score - giving a rating of 0-10 for marching band opportunities (scramble got a 3 in our rating, big 10 football got a “10”, Oberlin’s chicken-suited drum major got a negative #), 0-5 for jazz bands (higher # for non-major opportunities) and 0-5 for concert bands - again focussing on what was offered to non-majors, usually by audition but the door wasn’t barred! It helped standardize what I was looking at since on the search engines (college board and others) you just got to choose whether xyz univ. has a jazz band or doesn’t - without knowing whether that just meant one single 3 person ensemble of majors only. Each college usually has a website describing their performance ensembles - usually under the music dept. (NYU fell off my list because their website was so painfully annoying to get this info despite having a school of the arts) Note that sometimes, the marching or pep bands are under the athletics dept. - if you are interested in them, [BYU</a> Bands — College Marching Band Links](<a href=“http://bands.byu.edu/college_marching_bands.html]BYU”>http://bands.byu.edu/college_marching_bands.html) is a good starting point for finding the links. </p>
<p>So from that combination score (and we weighted the marching band as more important for my son, sounds like for you that would mean concert bands)…we were able to get a top 10. Youtube was also good for cking out what they sound like, look like…</p>
<p>I would think that a college with a “conservatory” would be more difficult to combine your music and physics/eng. without double majoring - while a good music dept. maybe more accessible. An Oberlin community band might not include a bunch of farmers, but maybe some profs, and some of the college students like myself who would’ve liked to continue music without majoring in it. Maybe you can search youtube to ck out the caliber?</p>
<p>Really…just have the student contact the orchestra director, instrument teacher on his instrument AND the head of the music department at the schools of interest.</p>
<p>There is a HUGE difference between finding a marching band or wind ensemble (band) spot and finding an orchestral spot. DD found a number of schools where she would have been welcomed into the wind ensemble but NOT the orchestra. She had no interest at all in marching band or pep band (no music for oboes for those anyway). Finding a college where a non-major could participate in orchestra was our biggest challenge when looking for schools for DD.</p>
<p>At Yale, both the orchestra and concert band are open to non-music majors, by audition. The orchestra spots for wind players are very hard to get, though, because there are a lot of very good players. Both are non-credit extracurriculars. (The marching band is a scramble band, though…a plus for some people, including me.)</p>
<p>Again, you’ll have to look in to quality, the personalities of the music professors, etc. Also, private lessons could be through Rochester directly, or could be with an Eastman grad student. Just ask–that website has phone numbers and emails listed. </p>
<p>Hi - this is second spring’s daughter again,
I just posted a long reply to your thread in the University of Rochester forum, but I wanted to let you know that the majority of musicians on the River Campus (aka non-Eastman) are science/engineering majors.
Seeing that you’ve played in the MA All State band, you’ll definitely find a community of like minded musicians. Many of us have had similar experiences in high school, and there are tons of high level musicians in the ensembles.
I’d also encourage other posters interested in music at the U of R to check out 30howland’s thread on the UR forum - there’s a lot of good information there.</p>
<p>Hi Ben. Not sure if it’s too far away for you, but University of Michigan has an awesome engineering school (very highly ranked) plus an awesome school of music, both of which reside side by each on north campus. As a result, it is one of the few places offering the best of both in terms of where engineering majors can officially dual degree with a BMUS in performance (albeit over a longer period of time and with a pretty rigid schedule of meeting prereqs).
As well, the SOM level orchestras/bands do not prohibit non-majors, although due to the time and rehearsal commitment (eg. 6+ hrs. a week) they don’t “recommend” the class for non-majors. Spots are available by audition only, and are competitive. UMich also has an awesome marching band, plus myriad other playing opportunities since the SOM is large-ish (eg. 1000 students).</p>
<p>In essence, you could apply to both, then either drop one and simply take the orchestra course, or toggle and determine which direction you wanted to go in terms of a degree. The benefit is that if you went ahead with engineering, then changed your mind and decided to pursue music, you are at a large, top ranked program (eg. also has a good conductor’s program, or music ed, both which sound like would capitalize on your wide ranging musical passions described) and if admitted, would not have to change schools.</p>
<p>Just food for thought. Good luck in your search!</p>
<p>Having gone to MIT, I know it’s great for engineering. Mighty tough nowadays to get in, along with the other ivies, but they all have great music groups. Williams has good music, I think. If your SATs are great, well stop thinking.</p>
<p>If your SATs are less than straight 800s, well there’s the rub. Some researche is required.</p>
<p>I am a fan of Lawrence U in Appleton Wisconsin. Visited last August with my D. Great LAC with a conservatory. It has some Nobel grads. 50% acceptance rate, higher if you are out of state. One does not have to be in the conservatory to be in the orchestras. The best by audition get into all the music groups. I was so sure that my D would end up there that I signed up for a MidWest Airlines credit card to collect frequent flier miles to pay for trips back and forth. She’s going elsewhere with a less serious music department.</p>
<p>Second Spring’s Daughter: Thank you for giving me a peek inside Rochester. I was really excited about the school when I toured. It is still near the top of the list!</p>
<p>Everybody else: I feel like I am on track because many of the schools recommended (Lawrence, Case, etc) are on my list. </p>