<p>Mammall:
Perhaps your student will not be going to lectures in the Fong Auditorium or talks in the Minda de Gunzburg Center for European Studies, take advantage of the resources of the Aga Khan program, or be taught by professors whose chairs were endowed by former international students.
Perhaps if your child decides to study abroad, s/he will not be welcomed by members of the local Harvard Club.<br>
Yes, we can recruit workers through immigration. But you are missing my point: it's those who return to their home countries who have been exporting American ways of thinking, doing things and products. The vice-president of one of Asia's top conglomerates is a former classmate of mine. He constantly comes back to Harvard for advice on a whole range of things, and many of the issues he ask for advice on result in joint projects. had he studied in Britain, I have no doubt he would be make annual treks to Britain instead of the US.
British universities, have long recruited abroad, especially in the Middle East. It's not just because it is profitable to admit foreign students; maintaining British influence abroad is also important. Several countries are vying to develop world-class universities. You can be sure that American universities are taking notice.</p>
<p>Great Britain started actively recruiting internationally in the 90's, after its government started weaning universities off their federal funding. Ditto Australia. In fact, the greatest boost to English/Australian student recruiting efforts happened right after 9/11. Visa restrictions discouraged millions of foreigners from applying to American schools. In the two years following 9/11 the number of foreign students coming to the US fell by over 30%. It hurt thousands of American colleges in a very significant way and was a direct benefit to English/Australian and Canadian institutions where these students matriculated instead. It woke up many American college administrators to the fact that when it comes to the lucrative (and politically important) business of English-language, international education -- America is no longer the only game in town.</p>
<p>
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America is no longer the only game in town.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>katliamom, I know you probably didn't mean that literally, but America never really was the only game in town. :) As I mentioned in my previous post on this thread, Canadian universities are, in our experience, much more diverse in this way, and have been for many years. I read an article recently about international education in both directions. I wonder if those who are opposed to international students in U.S. colleges are also against U.S. students studying abroad. It's difficult for me to understand the objections. I see the benefits as so far outweighing any perceived negatives. In any case, Canadian universities have, according to this article, a higher percentage of internationals overall than U.S. schools do. In Canada, the figure is 7% of full-time undergrads and 20% of graduate students. In the U.S., it's 2% of undergraduate and 22% of graduate enrolment at four-year public universities, and 4 percent of undergraduate and 17 percent of graduate enrolment at four-year private institutions.</p>
<p>I didn't mean it literally, but I also didn't know to what extent Canadian schools were more international -- so thanks for the details :)</p>
<p>Of course, if we're praising the internationalism of Canadian universities, it bears remembering that the largest group of international undergraduates at Canadian universities come from the sizable pool of relatively wealthy foreigners who live in Canada's neighbor to the south. One of my Canadian nieces had an international roommate -- from Silver Spring, Maryland. An absolutely lovely young woman, but not a significant diversity-bringer anywhere on this continent.</p>
<p>Sorry, JHS, but it's China which provides the largest group of international students in Canada, not the U.S., with more than double the number. This is also going to vary school to school. Some schools attract more Americans than others, e.g., McGill.</p>
<p>Well, I'm going to have to think on this one. Respect the views of Marite and JHS. But cannot help being nagged by the fact that these schools were founded on American dirt by American revolutionaries and immigrants and are largely supported by American funds and taxes. I am not pleased by the tone of the article. The notion of propping up what might otherwise be somewhat saner competition for spots at these schools by beating the bushes abroad for applicants. And then exploiting America's weak dollar to usher in full freight paying internationals when many of our affluent families are studdenly facing downsizing and shrinking home equity and 401ks. No, no, no. Not good. Not good at all. Humph!</p>
<p>mammall:</p>
<p>I was once an international as was my husband. We are examples of how an American education can make students into admirers of the US (we're both American citizens now). I once met a Chinese prof who had been educated in Cambridge, England. He had suffered greatly during the Cultural Revolution. When it was over and he was free to travel, he returned to England. He was one of the greatest Anglophiles I'd ever met. </p>
<p>Just for the record, Harvard was not founded ONLY with American money. Lady Anne Radcliffe made a substantial gift.
Lady Anne Moulson (sometimes Ann and/or Mowlson), born Anne Radcliffe (sometimes Radclyffe) (1576-1661), was an early benefactor of the fledgling colonial Harvard College. She is remembered today in the name of Radcliffe College.</p>
<p>In 1600 she was married to Thomas Moulson, an alderman and member of the Grocers' Company who served as Lord Mayor of London in 1634. He died in 1638, leaving the customary half of his estate to his widow Anne. In 1643 she donated some of this money to found the first endowed scholarship at Harvard. When in 1894 the women's annex to the university was chartered as a full college, it was given the name of Harvard's first female benefactor.
Ann</a> (Radcliffe) Mowlson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>
<p>And from the Yale website:
In 1718 the school was renamed “Yale College” in gratitude to the Welsh merchant Elihu Yale, who had donated the proceeds from the sale of nine bales of goods together with 417 books and a portrait of King George I.</p>
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Visa restrictions discouraged millions of foreigners from applying to American schools.
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Hardly. There are only half a million foreign students in the US at all. </p>
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In the two years following 9/11 the number of foreign students coming to the US fell by over 30%.
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I would love to see your source for this number. The overall number of foreign students in the US increased from 547,867 in 2000/01 to 572,509 in 2003/04 according to the Institute of International Education.</p>
<p>Using Google, I found this article from which I post an excerpt:</p>
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[quote]
After enrollments declined, some officials grew concerned about the dwindling numbers because international scholars help keep the United States competitive in the global market and contribute $14.5 billion a year to the economy. Karen Hughes, undersecretary for public affairs at the State Department, described the students as "the single most important public diplomacy tool of the last 50 years."</p>
<p>In January 2006, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings co-hosted a summit attended by college presidents. The goal: To recruit more foreign students to U.S. schools.
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<p>I expressed myself sloppily, barum. The overall number of students increased slightly (the 2001 numbers should be considered moot since we're talking post 9/11 regulations.) However, the number of student visa APPLICATIONS IS down, at times dramatically. Here are my sources, along with schools that report 20-30% drops in foreign student enrollments at their campuses.</p>
<p>"Richard Wheeler, dean of graduate colleges at University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, is concerned about the loss of “brainpower” for his science and engineering departments, especially at the graduate level, where foreign students are a key component and comprise 1/3 of the total graduate student population. Wheeler was disappointed when his university saw a 30 percent decline in graduate student applications after 9/11. As of now, hard numbers show that total international grad applications are still down 23 percent from 2003. With the exception of the humanities, all major fields showed declines in enrollment of international graduate students. The largest declines were in business and education, which lost 8 percent each, followed by engineering at 6 percent.
Schools</a> fight drop in foreign students - School Inc. - MSNBC.com</p>
<p>Indiana University
applications from international students are down 20 percent overall. At the Bloomington campus, which has long drawn its largest numbers of international students from five Asian nations -- South Korea, China, India, Taiwan and Japan -- enrollments of these students have declined 11.6 percent. Patrick O'Meara, dean of International Programs, noted that the U.S. Department of State is making efforts to reduce the backlog of visa applicants. He believes, though, that the lengthy process is discouraging many potential foreign students from even attempting to apply. </p>
<p>Student visa issuances did drop noticeably (25%) from 2001 to 2004, before beginning to rebound the next year.*
Center</a> for Immigration Studies</p>
<p>In many of these articles you will see that America's SHARE of internatial students is eroding... in part because they are chosing Australia, England
(and others) instead.</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification!</p>
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the 2001 numbers should be considered moot since we're talking post 9/11 regulations.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>IIE reports 582,996 foreign students in the US in 2001/02 and 586,323 in 2002/03, both significantly higher than the 547,867 in 2000/01.</p>
<p>But it's interesting that the IIE data conflict with the number of visas issued to foreign students. I am wondering where IIE gets its data from...</p>
<p>One of the articles posted makes clear that the visa restrictions didn't really take effect before the run-up to the 2003/04 school year, so 02/03 was really the "pre-9/11" peak.</p>
<p>Here is the quote:
[quote]
Foreign student enrollment peaked at 586,000 in 2002-03, the year the visa restrictions took effect. It dropped steadily each of the next three years, before increasing 3.2 percent this year.</p>
<p>According to the report, India sends more scholars to U.S. institutions than any other foreign country - nearly 84,000 in 2006, a 9.6 percent increase over the prior year. China is second, followed by South Korea.</p>
<p>The biggest growth was among students from Saudi Arabia. Nearly 8,000 students from that country attended American colleges and universities in 2006-07, a 128 percent increase over 2005-06.
[/quote]
<p>The OP's article posting describes plans for future recruitment, not where we have been. I'm not against admitting international students to our universities. I completely understand how they enhance the education for all. What I'm bothered by is the notion that this segment of applicants is to be increasingly targeted by schools to (a) inflate competition for admissions, and (b) prop up an otherwise increasingly unsustainable full-freight cost of attendance.</p>
<p>Higher education in America is a business. It targets applicants the same way companies target prospective consumers. And as the many articles cited in this thread shows, the number of prospective consumers is shrinking due in large part to more effective competition. If American schools aren't up to the challenge they will lose & shut down in which case we all lose. Sadly, it's as simple as that.</p>
<p>marite, you are right that the number of foreign students fell after 2002/03 but not as much as suggested by a 25% decline in the number of student visas issued. The number of international students in the US fell from 586,323 in 2002/03 to 564,766 in 2005/06 before it started rising again. I would have expected a much larger enrollment drop if the number of student visas issued had really dropped by 25%.</p>
<p>In this discussion we should really distinguish between ESL students -- international students in the US on language programs -- and degree-bound students. </p>
<p>Overall, the POOL of America-bound international students is getting smaller, for several reasons, but the biggest drop has been in those lucrative ESL students. </p>
<p>That is because England, Canada & Australia have also begun offering competitive ESL courses (as well as regular degree-bound programs. ) But another big reason is that ESL instruction has gotten better throughout much of the world, especially Asia, a major source of America's ESL students.</p>
<p>The paradox is that the more universities increase financial aid, the more they need full-pay students. And while the cost of a college education keeps increasing, I don't know of products whose costs become cheaper. The cost may rise more slowly, or they may be cheaper in real dollars compared to some other time, but they don't actually drop--unless they're on sale, which is what financial aid is about.
So if the international students stopped coming, college would not be cheaper for middle class Americans. It would only mean that colleges would admit more full-pay American students. We can debate whether this is a good policy, but it would not necessarily help middle-class and low SES students.</p>
<p>Looks like for the time being we're "stuck" needing all those foreigners, lol ;) </p>
<p>In fact, the situation isn't much different than with OOS helping to subsidize in-state FA. The big state U in my state was notorious with letting in lesser-qualified OOS students just for that reason: the school loved all that tuition money.</p>