<p>My son has one of those insane schedules -- six majors (including 4 AP, 1 IB, and the sixth course is an invitation-only social studies seminar that involves the most work of all), no lunch period most days, two jobs (one paying, one volunteer), two significant time-consuming clubs he's president of, and regular dance classes. He handles it pretty well, although he can get cranky and sleep-deprived towards the end of the week (I doubt he gets more than 5 hours a night Monday-Thursday). His grades are suffering somewhat, too -- he's not going to run the table this year, that's for sure. </p>
<p>There's nothing he would even think about dropping without a fight. And somehow he works in about 4 hours of TV a week (although rarely at the scheduled time for the shows he likes) and the occasional movie or play. He also seems to get some non-required reading done, if slowly.</p>
<p>His social life is pretty stunted, though, especially compared with his older sister. Most of his friends have similar schedules, and it's downright sad to see them try to figure out how to do something together out of school. (It does happen sometimes.) And romance . . . forget it, not enough time or energy. I worry about that more than anything, but he's almost 18 and he's allowed to choose projects or homework over girls if he wants.</p>
<p>I sort of chuckle at all the concern for "overachieving" kids. </p>
<p>You want to see a stressed kid? Head to your local urban, failing high school. Find the 3.0 GPA kid who really wants to go to college, but is stuck in a youth shelter because his mom's a drug addict and or homeless. He knows his 3.0 GPA translates to about a 1.5 at the nearby wealthier school district, and he knows that even if he gets into a good college he is poorly prepared to stay in it. He also worried about what will happen to his little sister if he can't provide for and protect her too. I work with these kids. They exist. In astonishingly large numbers. I know "overachieving" kids stress. But I also know they have the resources to deal with it.</p>
<p>Vango, because of district policies students are restricted to taking no more than 3 AP courses per grading period during sr and jr yrs. Frosh and sophs cannot take AP courses though any student can petition the district to waive these restrictions.</p>
<p>It has not seemed to impact college admissions in the least.</p>
<p>The district philosophy is that all AP classes are to be taught as college level courses and to take more than 3 in addition to another 3 or 4 courses would be muy difficult if not impossible. Students realize this and our son knew of none who petititioned to take more than the permitted 6 AP courses.</p>
<p>How challenging are the AP classes offered. Well he has a 3.82 gpa after 5 semesters at Rensselaer and earned a final grade of 83 in his APCalcBC course! And he was plenty challenged by his "lite" hs schedule. Seems like he was well prepared too.</p>
<p>A similar story can be told for classmates at Princeton, JHU, Harvard and Cornell.</p>
<p>weenie, your point is well taken, but consider that to whom much is given, much is required. Therefore, there are no acceptable excuses for a child in our affluent district to not do well. After all, they've had every opportunity! It's not OK to be average, hence, the presssure. </p>
<p>So I am very concerned with this topic. We are in the middle of course selection now for kid #2, and it's a repeat of what we went through last year: arguments!! I'm again trying to get her to pare back and be more realistic about what she can handle well and what will still leave her the time for the social life that makes her happy. Kid #2 is not as gifted, disciplined, or quick-working as kid #1. She knows this deep down, but seems to feel that she still must take the same type of schedule her older sibling did or else she'd be admitting she's not as smart. She's only a freshman and still can't seem to get more than 6 hours of sleep a night--ever. As an athlete, she should probably be sleeping around 10 hours. I fear she'll never go to bed at all if she takes AP's. But at our hs, you're a complete academic nobody if you don't take all honors and AP classes and everyone knows it.</p>
<p>TheGFG: Sounds like my house. D#1 is casting a big shadow for her sister. They've always had entirely different work habits: while D1 can't stand having things left undone (leading to almost always working ahead in all her classes and being uber-competitive), D2 seems only to get things done at the last minute. It's always been that way, and I'm finally beginning to see that my motherly "urging" doesn't change a thing. The best I can do is try to help give her tools to manager her time better. Also--D1 is math/science geek; D2 hates math. The frustrating part is that D2 IS as gifted and intelligent, but I'm coming to realize that having one Overachiever in the house is OK. What will help D2 is that jr. year (next year), she'll be branching out into almost entirely different courses than her sister took in hs, and she'll be able to get more into the things she really likes. It will probably also help her once D1 graduates this year to have people stop asking her...."oh you are HER sister--are you as smart as she is?" Arg. I hate that. We also won't be going on college tours to Yale or MIT with D2, but that should alleviate the stress levels a bit, too. Good luck with the schedules.</p>
<p>^ My point is not really aimed at individual families (where I know everyone deals with various issues with their kids), but more at the press, who, IMO, revel in stories about poor rich kids. (And, actually, it's usually the NY Times, not the Washington Post!)</p>
<p>Hey, who do you think reads the Times and the Post more? Parents of stressed-out high achievers, or parents of stressed-out homeless kids? This is "news you can use" marketing, nothing more and nothing less.</p>
<p>My daughter limited herself, quite deliberately and on her own initiative, both to reduce stress and to allow herself a decent amount of sleep (she knows she doesn't function well without it).</p>
<p>Many of the other students in her IB program took academic electives (including APs) every year in addition to a full IB diploma program. My daughter did this only once, to take a course in which she had a very strong interest. She also chose some of the easier options within the IB program: she only took 3 HL exams instead of 4, she dropped both math and foreign language after completing the IB SL exams in 11th grade, she took the easiest IB science course offered, and she juggled her schedule so that she could take instrumental music every semester (translation, she gave herself one period a day to doze off while holding an instrument). She also had fewer ECs than most of her friends did. The result: a higher GPA than most of the other IB students, 8 hours of sleep on almost all nights, state-level recognition in the one EC that she really worked at, and an ED acceptance to a top-20 university. </p>
<p>Some people can be more successful if they know their own limits and work within them. I think my daughter is an example of this.</p>
<p>Play? Play? No time for that, or, an even bigger time waster, just hanging out. Must keep up with the race at all costs. Falling behind is a sure sign of failure.</p>
<p>I think we need to keep some perspective here. Look around at the adults you know. How many are "over-achievers?" It's OK for kids not to be super-stars at 16 or 17 or even 42. It's even OK for them to just be...well...average. They aren't doomed to a life on skid row for being average, no matter how competitive your community might be. Just as most adults aren't super-stars, MOST kids aren't as well. Don't love your kids for their achievements or whether you'll be touring Yale or MIT with them. They are not a commodity and they do not OWE it to anyone, even you, to keep up with the Jones. Love them for the imperfect yet wonderful CHILDREN they still are, and focus on WHO they are, not what they DO.</p>
<p>With all respects to weenie. I understand, I really do. I was one of those kids. Back in the 60's somebody's money sent me to camp through the boys club. </p>
<p>I don't know if my kids are over achievers as much as they rising to their potentials. Weenie is right, when food, shelter and other basics aren't a certainty priorities shift. Having lived that as a child, we made sure kids had an opportunity to work at their education, rather than their existence.</p>
<p>For S, it was easier. Sure alot of hours of study and just as many for fun. His job was as a soccer referee so in a couple hours he could make what another kid worked 8 for. He rarely felt stress or at least showed it outwardly. easy kid. He also played premere soccer (and HS) and swam for the HS</p>
<p>For D, following brother was alot more work and effort. She really had to work at her grades. It didn't come as easy. She was in a self imposed competition to beat brother. We tried to get her to lighten up a bit, but it was so important to her to one up brother. Her outlet was swim and equestirian. </p>
<p>With both kids we did the one hand activities limit. That is once you get past one hand's (5) worth of activities you are expected to cut back on something. Spouse and I had the debates on EC's quality vs. quantity. While both kids did alot, they stuck to mainly what they liked to do. </p>
<p>The best stress reliever for both was doing something they loved with their free time. The only drawback for us was they didn't love chores. Oh well a clean house or good kids...depends on what day it is. </p>
<p>Both turned out to be NMF so EC's didn't matter so much. They had a wide variety of school choices and easy admittance. So the stress of getting in wasn't there.</p>
<p>Carolyn-
I think part of the problem some parents are trying to cope with is that they want their kids to do less, not more - but the kids find the whole high school/college process so competitive that they always feel like they are not doing enough. The parents love the kids for what they are, but the kids don't love themselves. Granted, this probably only applies to a handful of kids in every school, but if their goal is to get into a top school (for whatever reason), it's hard to convince them to stop and smell the roses. The message the schools put out only reinforces this.</p>
<p>It's not all, or even mostly, college-driven. In some cases, it's a question of wanting to do interesting things. In some cases, it's just driven-driven.</p>
<p>My son was doing this stuff long before he started to think about college. He liked the teachers and the kids in the tough courses; other classes were boring and felt like a waste of his time, and they didn't have the girls he liked in them. He did the extra-curriculars he enjoyed. He was flattered when teachers or kids asked him to do more. He wanted more money than we were willing to give him.</p>
<p>Truth be told, he probably would have done better in the college process if he were more focused and not spread so thin.</p>
<p>Some kids are just driven and motivated. My daughter ended up in AP Bio in 9th grade and AP Calc and others in 10th while being in two orchestra plus her own quartet and doing all the community service stuff. She is in her third year of college at an "elite school" and says she would not have done it any other way. Of course she also did do ED and when she got accepted threw the other applications out and had a great less stressful senior year. My son, on the other, did AP Calc and Chemistry in 8th grade ,walking back and forth to the high school, was in jazz bad, practiced piano 2 hours a day, did three sports and did not sleep. To get him to drop anything is like pulling teeth. Even this his last semester after dying trying to do all the applications while taking a 400 level math and 300 level engineering course, and 4 AP classes, preparing for a concerto, running cross country, being in orchestra, and a bunch of other things. He actually does have a social life, usually limited to Friday nights salsa dancing and Saturdays skiing. I thought he would back off this last term but no way. Makes mom and dad really feel like slackers, but that is who he is and we can't change it .</p>