<p>“I don’t see any easy answers for dealing with lack of discipline on the part of students and lack of caring on the part of parents that is in line with the Finnish model.”</p>
<p>One solution is to remove parents from the equation completely. There is no need for them to be involved at all, imo. Homework is unnecessary so if you remove that students who have parents who are disengaged aren’t hurt by the lack of parental involvement. All learning takes place in the classroom. Not having homework also removes the problem for students who lack the discipline to work on their own at home. There is no reason that elementary students need to be bringing any work home to do and it’s really not necessary in higher grades, either. </p>
<p>As for poor behavior in class - seems like the 15 minutes of PE out of each hour would go a long way towards helping with that problem. Also, imo, I think a lot of behavior problems in class are the result of kids feeling lost academically and feeling hopelessly behind. </p>
<p>In Finland the students who are struggling get extra, more individual instruction, versus here, were the gifted are the one’s who get more. And instead of dumbing down the curriculum like they do here (and test for the minimum) they teach to the highest level and give however much individual attention a struggling student needs to master the material.</p>
<p>:] Emilybee for governor. You’ve got my vote.</p>
<p>Your vote would likely be the only one I’d get in Texas ;)</p>
<p>Don’t be too sure. You can run as an independent. All you need is the right campaign manager. :D</p>
<p>But that would mean I would have to live there. <em>shuddering at the thought</em></p>
<p>Lol! I suppose that’s true. But you might actually LIKE Austin. It’s “weird” by design. And it’s where all the movie stars have a lake home.</p>
<p>I live in Texas and my children were educated in Austin by the public education system.</p>
<p>emilybee- I feel compelled to address your previous post and respectfully disagree. In it you write “In Finland the students who are struggling get extra, more individual instruction, versus here, [where] the gifted are the [ones] who get more…”</p>
<p>That wasn’t our experience at all. I sense that there is truly a misunderstanding of what gifted education really is for these students and the perception that it is somehow elitist
to give these students what they need.</p>
<p>In our public school system, elementary children who need extra help can get the extra resources. There is funding for this type of assistance whereas the gifted education funds are pretty much nonexistent. I think the extra help happens to a lesser degree in middle school and high school but nonetheless if families are receptive there is a lot out there for them to tap into. I’m a social worker and I’m aware of resources in our community. Austin has a large immigrant population and there are often barriers these families have to overcome.</p>
<p>Well, just adding my perspective…</p>
<p>Cromette, regarding post #28: if kids are passing daily work, tests, etc., but failing the standardized end of course exams, where is the disconnect? Are the standardized tests too hard or is the course work too easy or not preparing the students in some other way?</p>
<p>“That wasn’t our experience at all. I sense that there is truly a misunderstanding of what gifted education really is for these students and the perception that it is somehow elitist to give these students what they need.”</p>
<p>I don’t believe it is elitist, just that our focus is in the wrong place and on the wrong kids. </p>
<p>I’m not from Texas and so I cannot really comment on any specific school district in that state and what they do or don’t do.</p>
<p>I have to agree with goingnutsmom regarding extra help for kids who need it in Texas. There IS extra focus and extra help available and actually mandatory for those kids who need it. And there is a designated budget for it. We have special attention in class and additional programs after school. If you fail to complete work, need extra help or are falling behind. For some it’s mandatory, but you can also elect to go for free tutoring. Similar programs are offered in elementary and middle school.</p>
<p>Prefect, the state mandated standardized test covers ground not on a unit level or a micro level, it’s comprehensive, and it’s standardized…meaning that unless the teacher teaches to the test all year long, it is easy for there to be disconnects. Also, retention of the material to the level that even if it’s presented in a slightly different way than previously presented, is an issue. The tests are targeted to a gate level, not individualized based on what classes the kid has had. So you have some kids in math models, some in geometry or algebra 2, and some in algebra 1 all taking the algebra 1 test. And add on top of it the anxiety that if they perform poorly on the test it will adversely affect their whole grade, and if they fail the test they will have to repeat the test the following year, may fail the year and may not graduate. That’s not usually the case with even a final exam. If all other grades are fairly good, and a kid barely fails the final, the kid usually passes. If you fail this test, you’re done. The schools hype up the tests, it’s very anxiety provoking. My kids were all capable of passing the tests with great ease, and they would come home stressed out and anxious about the upcoming tests. I finally told them, flat out, do not spend one minute worrying about that stupid test, just keep doing what you’re doing. You’ll do fine. And they did. The tests were at a much lower level than their regular coursework. That’s not the case for everyone.</p>
<p>They may, indeed be getting extra help, but, I suspect it is help getting the underachievers to be able to pass the tests.</p>
<p>Well, hopefully that’s a side-effect, but the help is in their regular coursework, which may or may not be directly related to the test. In other words, their class may be in geometry, but the test they take that year may be algebra 1.</p>
<p>Texas mandates for gifted and talented kids in public schools. I am still looking for the equivalent for underachieving children. </p>
<p>[Texas</a> Education Agency - Gifted and Talented Education - Frequently Asked Questions](<a href=“http://www.tea.state.tx.us/index4.aspx?id=6263]Texas”>http://www.tea.state.tx.us/index4.aspx?id=6263)</p>
<p>Teaching to the test and trying to help kids pass the test is an obvious result of placing such heavy emphasis on the importance and outcome of the test, and the number and frequency of tests. That’s why many of us in Texas have said, “yes, we Should have standardized tests, but the emphasis is wrong, the quantity and frequency are taking the emphasis off of day to day learning and placing it on these tests. The effect is negative. There needs to be a change”. Personally, I think the testing should be given by others, outside the school district. Comprehensive tests in English and math only, twice during the kids’ high school career. Maybe mid sophomore and mid senior, strictly as a measurement, with virtually no emphasis and hype. I believe that would be a much truer measure of how the kids are doing.</p>
<p>Emilybee, can’t search it from here (phone). Yes, the gt program is very “prescribed”. There are multiple programs to address ESL students, pre-school children from under-privileged families, kids with learning disabilities, etc. Kids who are falling behind for other reasons and need extra help are usually managed on a district by district basis. I only know what our district does. We have a very particular program, it has a name, it’s promoted on the school website, all of the kids know about it, there’s a budget for it and an extra staff for it. It’s a big deal.</p>
<p>Well, to me it screams of the old “separate but equal” system - where the “gifted” receive a much different education than the rest and doing for the rest only as much that is needed to pass the tests.</p>
<p>I understand what you’re saying, but in fairness, you’re not here, and you don’t see what this district is doing. The program that I am talking about does not address the content of the test at all, or the taking of the test. It is only addressing the kids’ classes and the work they are doing there, which may or may not even cover the same material on the test for that kid that year. What the rest of the districts do, I don’t know. I do know that there are many similar programs. One of our primary challenges is language. About 10% of the student body is made of students who do not have English as their first language, and speak very little, if any, English. An additional 10% speak English, but are also ESL, so are deficient. About 60% of the kids are under-privileged. And we have many from all genres whose parents just do not care about them or their education. What I hear you saying, what the Finnish say, is treat them all the same. I think that would be an interesting experiment. No special classes to accelerate or remediate…or to address language barriers…just all the same. God, I’m glad my kids are done.</p>
<p>BTW, that program our school has is for everyone. My kids used it voluntarily when they were having trouble in math and science, and also when one of them was out for a week because of illness.</p>
<p>Cromette, you know my position on all those issues but again, Finland has an immigrant population and yet they are able to integrate them into the classroom and I don’t see why the size of the immigrant population matters. They do it and so can we. </p>
<p>It just seems to me that no matter the problem we fall back on the argument that because our population is so multicultural, bigger, etc., we cannot do what other countries have proven works in all areas of public policy, not just education. Meanwhile, we sink lower and lower…</p>