I think the “strong cohort” approach is a strawman argument. It’s really the only argument left for a program like Yale or Swarthmore where EVERY other facet of the program is comparatively weak. There’s no evidence that stronger cohorts make stronger engineers. In fact, there’s evidence, plenty of it, to the fact that high calibur students will achieve equivalent success no matter where they go. Sure, experiences and hand holding might be different, but I would never trade facilities and depth/breadth of curriculum for the sole sake of being around a bunch of other “smart kids.” There’s also no evidence that the stronger average cohort will have a faster pace, proof based math classes, etc. The only way to know that is to review the curricula of the individual schools in consideration.
There are plenty of good schools in the AAU, but some certainly are not worthy of being called tier one. Mizzou (Go Tigers!), isn’t even the best public engineering program in Missouri. Rolla is. Yale? Please. Oregon doesn’t even offer engineering. I’d put A&M, Utah, ASU and Virginia Tech ahead of quite a few programs on that list.
At the end of the day, engineering is very egalitarian. Students get out of it what they put into it, largely based on the level of horsepower they bring to the game, no matter where they go.
This reminds me of a video DS20 and I just watched last night that was put out by the rocketry club at one of the schools he was admitted to. It’s just a regional school not at the top of any of the charts with an average ACT score of 24. In the video the coach was talking about the backgrounds of some of these kids and how several were from disadvantaged families that didn’t have the stellar high school backgrounds. They ended up taking 2nd place in a worldwide competition against teams with huge budgets (they had $3500 to build a rocket that went to 32000 feet).
My daughter went to a ‘lower’ tier school. She has a job at a national firm and makes the same as all the other second year engineers, no matter where they went to school. Teams from her school have won the cement canoe challenge and many other awards when competing against the top schools in the region.
“Yale graduates are weak in engineering” that is laughable.
The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior, if you don’t do well in high school your not likely to turn that around and do well in college.
"If you don’t do well in high school, you’re not likely to turn that around and do well in college. "
There are many kids that are late bloomers, particularly boys. Also, some kids have challenges during high school that impact their schoolwork (finances, divorce,health, family issues, etc.). Many kids in engineering start at community college or go to their state universities. Some kids peak in high school, others need more time and end up doing just as well.
My family has a history of kids doing poorly in high school but well in college. I didn’t even graduate with my class. Dropped out junior year and finished at an alternative school. Figured out at about age 19 or so that I wanted more from life than a factory job and enrolled in college. Got a whopping 17 on the Math section of my ACT and had to take remedial classes to get me up to speed, but graduated with honors.
I applaud you, and here is another story about my uncle who never went to college, and has a net worth of around $60 million. Lots of unique stories out there but science stands by the phrase the “best predictor of future behavior is past behavior”. Change is hard, not impossible.
This statement is a fact, the top students in high school tend to be the top students in college.
Her school also has robotic challenges with other schools and other challenges like designing underwater vehicles and moon rovers. They are in the same region as Embry-Riddle, UCF, UF, U of Miami and a few other big and small schools in Florida, and sometimes even against GT or Vtech, depending on how big the district is for the competition. Small schools can hang with and beat the big boys sometimes.
I believe all first year hires at my daughter’s employer get paid the same. Your chances of being hired might be better if you graduate from MIT, but the pay will be the same. If firms start paying different salaries to different grads, they’d have to justify any differences between the sexes, races, or other protected classes. Most firms don’t want that headache so just pay the new hires the same and then let them prove their worth for bonuses or raises.
@CU123 Engineering is difficult and engineering grads come from many types of backgrounds . Your high school scores are not superior to many,many kids that are able to complete engineering degrees, at many kinds of schools. Stay humble and stay on your uncle’s good side!
Maligning Concrete Canoe shows a lack of grasp of undergraduate engineering competition. It is THE Civil competition. Every major civil department will have their canoes proudly on display.
Who needs go carts made with motorcycle engines or worse, buggies made with lawn mower engines. That’s all SAE is. It’s the process, not the product that is important.
Ahhhh, civil engineers…yes, that explains the concrete canoes/boats/ships/rafts, we had a few of those around, really didn’t associate with them much. Although some of my more unfortunate (maybe less smart) engineering classmates ended up there.
