Pakistani thread

Student Lounge International Students
381

<p>I notice my post got lost in this rather pointless "discussion'. Time for a new thread, perhaps?</p>

<p>This made me laugh though -"I would term the civvilians killed in Palestine/Lebanon as terrorist, they may not be in direct conflict with the Israeli Forces but the fact that they provide food/shelter to Hamas/Hijbllah justifies the action taken against them." I don't think I need to explain why.</p>

<p>It's also notable that the Pakistani thread was strategically chosen for this series of outbursts. No better place than this to offend muslims and start a long internet battle.</p>

382

<p>Reasons for Growth rate of Islam</p>

<ul>
<li>A Muslims male has 4 wives v/s 1 for other religions</li>
<li>Islam forbids family planning(no condoms/pills). Almost all Muslims in developing countries have 5-6(!) children.</li>
</ul>

<p>As i have mentioned in the peaceful Indic religions concept of conversions is Nonexistent. For you satisfaction google for George Harrisson and Alfred Ford. One more point, Cat Stevenson was barred from entering US in '04. He had his name in no-fly-list for sponsoring a terrorist organization. Please don't give example of such terrorists as converts to Islam.</p>

<p>No, Israel is not the aggressor. She is the victim who has the courage to strike back. Since her birth she has been attacked by Arabic nations. Israel is a Victim of Terrorism sponsored by the Muslims world much as India.</p>

<p>As far as spread of Islam is concerned go ahead and search form a "Neutral Source" rather from what you are taugh in School.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Many historians dispute the claim that Islam spread peacefully through India, showcasing the massive persecution of Hindus by Muslim ruler to indicate that Islam spread violently.Historians such as Srđa Trifković,Sir Jadunath Sarkar, K.S.Lal, Will Durant and others point to evidence suggesting a violent nature to the spread os Islam in India, with intermediate periods of relative peace[10][11][12][13][14]. Even after Muslims would forcibly convert Hindus to Islam at point of sword, there was no guarantee of safety as the converts would be regarded as "Ajlaf" or "Arzal" castes in the Muslim Caste System in India. They would be treated as "ritually impure" and subject to severe discrimination by the "Ashraf" upper castes[15][16][17][18][19][20]. Hindus were often subjected to the Islamic law of poll tax or jizya where they were forced into the status of dhimmis unless they converted to Islam.

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_India%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_India&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And yes Arabic Tribes defeated Sassanid empire of Persia which was completely composed of Zoroastrians. After that most of the Zoroastrians converted into Islam due to reasons mentioned above. </p>

<p>
[quote]

It's also notable that the Pakistani thread was strategically chosen for this series of outbursts. No better place than this to offend muslims and start a long internet battle.

[/quote]

The debate was revived by austin and not by me. I still stand by my comments that the punishments awarded by Shariat courts in Saudi Araia and Pakistan are Inhuman and Uncivilized.</p>

<p>
[quote]
As for the origins of “Indic religions” and their peacefulness, I think Kashmir is an ample example of how to suppress human rights and kill people.

[/quote]

Please Back you statement with Proofs! Indian Kashmirs(and Indian Muslims in general) are in a lot better circumstances then Muslims in Pakistan itself(No offenses, just a fact)</p>

<p>India(Literacy rate amongst Muslims) 59.1%(2001 census)
Pakistan(Overall Literacy rate) 45%(1998 Census)</p>

383

<p>Hmm another very long post. Let' see... </p>

<p>Firstly I wonder where you are getting this from:
1) "A Muslims male has 4 wives v/s 1 for other religions"
2) "Almost all Muslims in developing countries have 5-6(!) children."</p>

<p>I live in a developing Muslim country and I know of almost no one with 4 wives (or even 2) or 5-6 children. So do you have some actual proof for your rather sweeping statements, or is it just something that you would like to believe?</p>

<p>The basic problem with your arguments is that you use a few specific examples to make large generalizations about a religion that's followed by more people than it's possible to imagine. Note that all your points and examples refer to specific muslim rulers and people, rather than any fundamental flaw in the quran itself. You ignore the fact that each person interprets islam (or any other religion for that matter) in his/her own way, and criticising a religion because of the way a few isolated people interpret it is obviously discriminatory against the large number of people who are innocent and in fact dislike the way their religion is being interpreted.</p>

<p>For example, I am sure the vast majority of Christians would not support some of the actions carried out in the name of their religion (the Thirty Years' War for example). For Hindus the caste system as has been pointed out is a comparable example; clearly most Hindus now disagree with the interpretation placed on their religion when the caste system was introduced.</p>

<p>Now to the Israel issue. Firstly you ignore the fact that Israel occupied, in 1967, lands of other sovereign countries (such as Palestine and Jordan). Little effort has been made to return these lands. Let's keep that in mind shall we?</p>

<p>If you call the acts by Hamas/Hizbollah against Israel as terrorist acts, so must the Israel army strikes against Palestine and Lebanon be called terrorist acts. No bones about it. Both lead to the killing mostly of civilians who're probably as normal as the average person. It so happens that the Israeli acts kill more people than the 'terrorist' acts against Israel. The one difference is that Israel uses its official army to perpetrate the acts, and they parade this fact with great fanfare in the world media to claim that they are in the right.</p>

<p>"Indian Kashmirs(and Indian Muslims in general) are in a lot better circumstances then Muslims in Pakistan itself(No offenses, just a fact)</p>

<p>India(Literacy rate amongst Muslims) 59.1%(2001 census)
Pakistan(Overall Literacy rate) 45%(1998 Census)"</p>

<p>This seems to me to be irrelevant. What does it prove except for the fact that education-wise India was more developed in 2001 than Pakistan was in 1998?</p>

384

<p>jaw, I agree.
Islam does recommend forgiving.</p>

<p>What happened to Afridi?
I hope he rediscovers his form.</p>

<p>And like others said, keep this form neutral and don't bring religion.
NONE of the religions support terrorism. Period.</p>

385

<p>What I really meant by eye-for-an-eye policy is totally something different than what you guys are thinking.
It is true that if you steal something significant, you get your hands cut off, which is fair.
However, what I meant was that you can't ever go to heaven for killing an innocent person.
You can't kill anybody else based on religion.
Quran says don't criticize anybody's religion. If you do, they will criticize your religion. How can it tell Muslims to go kill innocent people (based of whatever the hell you guys claim)??</p>

386

<p>“Reasons for Growth rate of Islam
* A Muslims male has 4 wives v/s 1 for other religions”
A muslim male is “allowed” to marry four times. This does not mean that he necessarily has 4 wives. In fact most Muslims have no more than one spouse. That’s that. To be honest this is the most stupid thing I have ever seen. Go get your facts right before posting here.</p>

<p>“* Islam forbids family planning(no condoms/pills). Almost all Muslims in developing countries have 5-6(!) children.”
Interestingly most families in rural India are that big too. However, this is again not true since family planning stuff is much active in Pakistan.
“Almost all Muslims”!!!!!! Lets see, most of the people I know here have 2-3 children. You have on purpose inflated the figures. I wonder why!</p>

<p>“Cat Stevenson was barred from entering US in '04.”
Cat Stevens was barred from entering the US for the same reason that Senator Edward Kennedy was barred. These two events happened very close to each other. I don’t see you calling Kennedy a terrorist because he happens to be a Christian.</p>

<p>As for Israel, I quoted British Secretary of foreign affairs. Britain happens to be one of the countries who laid Israel’s foundations. If such claims come from they themselves, I can’t see any reason why you are supporting Israel. </p>

<p>“As far as spread of Islam is concerned go ahead and search form a "Neutral Source" rather from what you are taught in School.”
Mate, do that yourself, because all that I have said, it was on the basis of my own study that goes beyond school. You, on the other hand, have no knowledge about Islam and are resorting to what the media says, and what biased sources said. You can bring along all what these people have to say just because they are biased. You can find numerous articles on the internet that says Islam is a peaceful religion and all, but no! You are bringing forth Anti-Islamic thing just because you have no courage to think for yourself.</p>

<p>As for your case regarding spread of Islam and persecution of Hindus, the source is again biased. Moreover, you do not consider the fact that India did NOT have a written record of history before the Muslims came. This not only points towards the fact that Muslims brought knowledge to India and that Hinduism actually promotes ignorance, but also to the fact that these “Historians” speak on “evidence” not from History!</p>

<p>Islam does NOT have any castes or a system as such. I quoted the saying of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) that no one is superior to another…</p>

<p>That Muslims converted Zoroastrians by force is a load of crap! You talk about proofs; give me a “Proof” of this! And don’t bring comments and quotations which are biased. Bring Historical FACTS.</p>

<p>“…the punishments awarded by Shariat courts in Saudi Araia and Pakistan are Inhuman and Uncivilized.”
Can you please tell me what exactly a punishment is? And what should it attempt to do?
The aim of a punishment is to stop people committing those crimes. If you just fine a rapist, he will continue to do the crime if he has money. You are basically giving a license to the rich to do crime.
But if you punish him and let other see that, then less people are likely to commit those crimes. The crime rate in Saudi Arabia is gaping testimony of this.</p>

<p>Sikhism is an Indic Religion. Is it not? I wonder why they keep daggers in their turban. To chop vegetables and fruits??????!!! Peaceful, really!!!
Who killed Indira Gandhi? A sikh, very peaceful!
Continuous problems in Assam! Very peaceful!</p>

<p>If “Indian Kashmirs(and Indian Muslims in general) are in a lot better circumstances then Muslims in Pakistan” this is a blatant denial of human rights and an act of religious intolerance since you consider the butchering of people from another faith as a better proposition. Every day, Indian Army kills Kashmiris, and you call it better??? Mate, you are inhumane!!!
And don’t tell me that they are separatists or terrorists. Are children as young as 5-6 months terrorist?? If you think that way, take no offence, you are worse than animals!</p>

<p>And tell me, there are often religious riots in India (as in Gujrat state recently), if that’s done by Hindus, shame on you for even saying that “(and Indian Muslims in general) are in a lot better circumstances then Muslims in Pakistan itself”
And Even if (which I do not believe) the Muslims were responsible, this clearly demonstrates that some Muslims are not happy in India.
What about the Babri Masjid? (and don’t say that they preached terrorism; no such claim was made by even those who were involved in bringing it down)</p>

<p>“India(Literacy rate amongst Muslims) 59.1%(2001 census)”
Malaysia (another Muslim country)- literacy rate among Muslims 95%+
(if it has any relevance)</p>

387

<p>NBZ, I totally agree about the perfect choice of a thread. Guys, lets not lose our heads here, this discussion will go NOWHERE. Atleast let's keep THIS thread peaceful - if not Kashmir or Palestine. </p>

<p>And honestly, if anybody has doubts about another faith/religion - be glad you're not following it, and let it be. LEt's move on to "colleges" now, shall we?</p>

388

<p>On a happier note, a late Eid Mubarak to everyone here!</p>

389

<p>so how are the apps coming along</p>

390

<p>well i am sort of screwed up for Stanford EA!!!!! havent submitted the form 2, and only sent the mailing things todays!!!
What abt u?</p>

391

<p>im done with ucas, no early apps so not really in a rush right now.</p>

392

<p>Hello everyone here!!!Hey,where is everyone?This tread was lyin in the far reaches of CC......</p>

393

<p>And as I hav surfed thru this tread,there were very long discussions on RELGIOUS issues.........well,What I hav to say is this-
1.I dont consider any country or any border..
2.Which religion is the best?here is the ans.quite simple-Hindu?no...Muslim?no...Christanity?no..Buddhism?no..Jainism?no..Sikhism?no.......NO,NO,NO..
The only RELIGION we all hav is HUMANITY.....which is the only religion(atleast in my point of view...so,there is no point of argument in ''which religion is better,or what are the flaws in religious...come-on guys/gals...we only hav ONE religion,i.e.,HUMANITY and v should b thankful to god for makin us HUMANS so that v can ENJOY life as much as v can...thats it...and HUMANITY is a fact..whether any so called ''religion'' survives or not,but,HUMANITY will........</p>

394

<p>isaac newton, you tried to bring together everyone but you couldnt include the atheists, or the agnostics. HUMANITY as a religion may include them, BUT when you say " we should be all thankful to god for making us humans"// do you really know and are you sure that god made us, or that god exists?</p>

<p>ps. whats humanity according to you?</p>

395

<p>i thought CC was a college discussion forum....</p>

396

<p>can u free colleges from social and religious issues? if u can, your surprise deserves some recognition.</p>

397

<p>lol(10)..........I knew someoe will gonna raise that question......well,whether u believe it or not........whether god really exist or not,whether god really made us.....well,the ans is as clearer as you hav asked......................................
Who,according to you,have created you?....just ans this question and you hav your ans....I m not talkin about the GOD which exist VIRTUALLY,I m talkin about the CREATOR here...
And what is humanity?lol....................humanity for me is Live n let Live!!!!!! n ejoy everything that u can........after all everyone knows that v will DIE someday or the other,so,even if one lives 100+yrs,that is a very-very short period,so enjoy as much as u can.....</p>

398

<p>India Rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>

399

<p>I would like to advice everyone to ignore the stupid posts above.</p>

400

<p>abhishiv:Hey,its not that stupid.......its a bit funny though...;)..</p>